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Basic Stamp or something else? — Parallax Forums

Basic Stamp or something else?

c131frdavec131frdave Posts: 38
edited 2011-12-30 23:24 in BASIC Stamp
I am prototyping something that I want to eventually (hopefully this Spring) build a business around. I'd rather keep the particulars of my project vague.

My prototype currently uses a BS2 for electronic control. I have a sensor sending input to the BS2, the BS2 processing the information, and then the BS2 controlling a servo motor accordingly. Sounds simple, but it's actually very precise, and somewhat complicated- and too expensive for production.

I'm at the stage of reducing my production costs, and a big thorn in my side is the cost of the BS2 and associated components. I like the BS2 because it is well proven, and I know how to program it, however I've been looking at different microcontrollers to use instead even though I don't know their programming languages. My general power supply is 11-14VDC (automobile), so I have to keep that in consideration as well. Since the device is going on a car or airplane, it has to be fairly robust.

My question is: should I switch to something else besides a BS2? I see that some of the arduinos are 12V and very popular- and cheap, less than $20. I see the propeller chip itself is pretty cheap, but would need some supporting components. And the software for the BS2 is written- took me about a month to get it perfect (lots of fine tuning to get it to move the servo motor exactly where it needs to be with given inputs). I wish there was a way to take the compiled BS2 code and move it to another controller's logic...

My last concern is that the basic stamp has been around for quite a long time, and I'm wondering if it will remain around for much longer. Parallax seems to be pushing their newer controllers, so I might be smart to use something newer from the start. If I were an electronics genius like you all, this wouldn't be a big deal, but learing to program the BS took me a long time, and I really don't want to try to learn somthing new. But I want what's best for my product.

Any comments, suggestions, etc. would be greatly appreciated.

Comments

  • Mike GMike G Posts: 2,702
    edited 2011-12-27 11:50
    c131frdave, what kind of servo are you using and how are you determining position?
  • Prophead100Prophead100 Posts: 192
    edited 2011-12-27 13:06
    The Stamp is a good proven platform. If you were to look at another option, then for what you describe, consider the Parallax Propeller. Many use it for commercial uses. I use it for hobby and non-profit work where cost is always a concern.

    At only $7.99 for the chip itself or ~$25-30 for Protoboard, it is far superior to the Arduino with the ability to have up to eight processors working independently or together and comes with similar great support. The protoboard already has the connections set up for a couple servos and can easily do video for diagnosis, etc. as a bonus at almost no extra cost should you decide you want that. I have personally used it for multiple servo, multiple sensor projects with serial output and video. For a basic system, the protoboard may have all you need hardware wise and save you some design work. You could also use the PE kit and DIPTrace to prototype and build a unique custom board to reduce your costs in the future. If you take a look at some of the propeller meet-up video on the forum you can see some of the interesting projects people have worked on including sensor projects.

    Don't worry about the programming language. I found the transition from the Stamp Basic to Propeller SPIN fairly easy and worth learning. If your proficient at basic then SPIN should be a snap. The PE Kit and tutorials are also a good resource that outline many examples. After going through a few of the lessons, you should be able to be experimenting with your sensors either the same day or soon there after. There is also an audio podcast out now on learning to use the propeller called FirstSpin.

    -Prophead100
  • WBA ConsultingWBA Consulting Posts: 2,934
    edited 2011-12-27 13:06
    First, I applaud you for taking the longevity of your product into consideration before just pushing your product to market.

    From your description of single input and single servo, I think pretty much any micro would work, however, since you are giving yourself some restrictions (I mean that as a positive), I think your best bet is to try the Propeller. Yes, there are some extra support components, but even with those considered, your total cost will be lower than a BS2 module. You could look into making your own module using "OEM" parts, but I don't know how much you need to reduce your cost to be happy. The OEM BS2 Kit is only $25 though and you could leave of the unnecessary parts for production units (like the DB9 since you could pre-program an EEPROM for your units you sell on one complete setup). Do you have any size restrictions for the PCB?

    As for wanting to hold onto your code you already have fine tuned, utilizing PropBasic will probably solve that desire. This will give you the ease of PBASIC, but also the power of the Propeller for future versions of your product. Once you are comfortable with using the Propeller and PropBasic, take some looks at SPIN and the objects that are available for servo control. I think you will find that your code would be a lot simpler in SPIN and SPIN is much easier than it may appear at first. (I migrated from the BS2 to the Prop and I wasn't that solid with the BS2)

    There are several Propeller boards out there that can be used in automotive applications, but making your own would be very easy as well.

    Lastly, there is no problem with planning a product around the Basic Stamp. It is not going anywhere for a long time. Parallax may be pushing the Propeller a bit more nowadays, but they haven't stopped pushing the Stamp in all of their educational programs, etc. The BS2 is a rock solid product with a significant annual usage still. The WAM kit and BOE-Bot are still top sellers for schools and colleges (and boy scouts too) During my last visit to Parallax, they had a rack of BS2 panels (50 BS2s in a panel) and it was mentioned that that was just a monthly run. So, the BS2 still has a very large market. The educational use of the Stamp is still very heavy and much larger than the Arduino.
  • Tracy AllenTracy Allen Posts: 6,662
    edited 2011-12-27 16:26
    You might consider using the OEM Stamp interpreter chip, instead of the module. You would have to lay out a circuit board with the eeprom and the power regulator and interface, but it could also contain exactly the parts you need in order to implement your project. The fact that you have your software already implemented on the BS2 should not be underestimated!
  • sylvie369sylvie369 Posts: 1,622
    edited 2011-12-28 03:52
    Tracy Allen wrote: »
    You might consider using the OEM Stamp interpreter chip, instead of the module. You would have to lay out a circuit board with the eeprom and the power regulator and interface, but it could also contain exactly the parts you need in order to implement your project. The fact that you have your software already implemented on the BS2 should not be underestimated!

    Seconded. It sounds as though you're using STAMP modules, and if so, going to your own board with just the STAMP interpreter chip, an EEPROM chip, and a couple of passive components should reduce that part of the cost by about 2/3rds, even if you can't use surface mount chips. If you can do surface mount you should reduce costs by about 3/4ths, and have no need for ANY changes to your code. Going to the Prop would bring it down from there, but not by that much.
  • blittledblittled Posts: 681
    edited 2011-12-28 09:38
    I would suggest looking at Microchip's PIC series. Most of the chips are less than $10 and a development system such as PICKIT2 can cost around $50. Since there is a large selection of chips and functions you probably would find one that would have the features you need. The big cost if you want to easily translate from BS2 to PIC is the PIC-Basic Pro at $250. The PIC-Basic Pro is modeled after the BS2 so code translation would be minimal.
  • RDL2004RDL2004 Posts: 2,554
    edited 2011-12-30 14:39
    Check out this post by Chris Savage in the "Completed Projects" forum.

    BS2 OEM "LITE" Schematics
  • WBA ConsultingWBA Consulting Posts: 2,934
    edited 2011-12-30 23:24
    @RDL2004, Good point, the BS2 Lite Schematics make it easier to understand how little you really need and not bad at only $13.48 for the main parts (see below). You just need to add your power supply circuit and a few passives. I can get you details on a schematic for a power supply circuit that is for a proven automotive product if you would like (just shoot me a PM).

    16KB Industrial I2C EEPROM, 602-00013, $1.50
    20 MHz Industrial Resonator, 250-12055, $0.99
    BASIC Stamp 2 Interpreter Chip (SSOP), PBASIC2CI/SS, $10.99
    Subtotal $13.48
    Just add the power supply and a few passives
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