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Driver was texting - 2 killed, 38 injured — Parallax Forums

Driver was texting - 2 killed, 38 injured

Ron CzapalaRon Czapala Posts: 2,418
edited 2011-12-18 14:49 in General Discussion
http://news.yahoo.com/driver-texting-missouri-traffic-pileup-201841737.html

Driver was texting in Missouri traffic pileup

WASHINGTON (AP) — A 19-year-old driver was texting just before his pickup truck, two school buses and a tractor truck collided in a deadly pileup on an interstate highway in Missouri last year, the National Transportation Safety Board said Monday.

Two people — the pickup driver and a 15-year-old student on one of the buses — were killed and 38 others were injured in the Aug. 5, 2010 accident on the interstate highway near Gray Summit, Mo. Nearly 50 students, mostly members of a high school band from St. James, Mo., were on the buses heading to the Six Flags St. Louis amusement park.

The chain of rear end collisions began when the pickup truck rammed the back of the tractor truck, the board said. The pickup was then rear-ended by a school bus, which was in turn struck by the second bus.

The board is scheduled to meet Tuesday to hear the results of an investigation into the accident and to make safety recommendations. The meeting will focus on the "distractive effects of portable electronic devices when used by drivers," the board said in a statement.

The board has previously recommended bans on texting and cell phone use by commercial drivers, but has stopped short of calling for a ban on the use of the devices by adults behind the wheel of passenger cars.

The problem of texting while driving is getting worse despite a rush by states to ban the practice, Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said last week. In November, Pennsylvania became the 35th state to forbid texting while driving.

About two out of 10 drivers overall — and half of American drivers between 21 and 24 — say they've thumbed messages or emailed from the driver's seat, according to a survey of over 6,000 drivers by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

And what's more, many drivers don't think it's dangerous when they do it — only when others do, the survey found.

At any given moment last year on America's streets and highways, nearly one in every 100 car drivers was texting, emailing, surfing the Web or otherwise using a hand-held electronic device, the safety administration said. And those activities spiked 50 percent in over the previous year.

The agency takes an annual snapshot of drivers' behavior behind the wheel by staking out intersections to count people using cellphones and other devices, as well as other distracting behavior.
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Comments

  • graffixgraffix Posts: 389
    edited 2011-12-12 13:46
    sounds like following to closely is a key factor here.tragic in deed
  • Ron CzapalaRon Czapala Posts: 2,418
    edited 2011-12-12 13:53
    graffix wrote: »
    sounds like following to closely is the key factor here.tragic in deed

    If the driver had not been texting, there would have been no accident!
  • graffixgraffix Posts: 389
    edited 2011-12-12 14:00
    it could have been a tire failure maybe not in this case.all to often you hear of a big pile up on the highway.Im not defending texting while driving.Though it will be the only disscusion here.
  • W9GFOW9GFO Posts: 4,010
    edited 2011-12-12 16:44
    The pickup driver was texting and rear ended the bobtail, texting would be a factor. The school bus then rear ends the pickup, no excuse for that, separate problem. Both school busses were following too closely.

    Tragic accidents like this are almost always a result of multiple things going wrong. Remove any one thing and the outcome is drastically different. Professional drivers carry a higher responsibility, and professional drivers entrusted with transporting children should be held to the highest standards and safe driving practices. If the bus drivers were following at a safe distance, as is the law, and just good common sense, then the only injuries would be to the texter.
  • Dr_AculaDr_Acula Posts: 5,484
    edited 2011-12-12 17:32
    You are not allowed to use a phone or text while driving here in Australia. People still do of course, but it is being policed more now as a result of so many accidents being linked to texting and driving.

    The map here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texting_while_driving shows all the differences amongst US states.

    Sadly it probably takes a tragedy like this to change the rules.
  • sylvie369sylvie369 Posts: 1,622
    edited 2011-12-12 18:33
    I'm 50. I never had a cell phone until I was about 44, and I never texted until I was about 47. I lived more than 40 years without a phone in my car, and so did, I suspect, most people here. We survived.
    Ban the use of cell phones by drivers while on the road. This is an easy one.
  • W9GFOW9GFO Posts: 4,010
    edited 2011-12-12 19:31
    If we ban everything that can cause harm, what kind of society would we be living in? The thing is, there are already laws that address these issues but they are not well enforced. Operating a motor vehicle is looked upon as a right rather than a privilege. Anyone with poor enough judgment to be texting while driving is likely to be a hazard to others when not texting as well. Bans are a patch that don't really work. Cell phone use is illegal here now but that does not stop people from using them while driving, it's those people that are most likely to be a danger to others. And of course you see the police using cell phones - special training I guess.

    Also, as this accident was described, texting was not the real issue. What really caused the problem was following too closely - by the bus drivers. That's not stopping people from using it as an example of the dangers of texting though is it? Nothing, I repeat nothing that happens to a vehicle in front of you, short of traveling backwards, should be able to cause you to have an accident. If it does, then you were too close.
  • rod1963rod1963 Posts: 752
    edited 2011-12-12 21:52
    Texting while driving should come with harsh penalties,say $1000 on the first offense and vehicle confiscation with a some jail time. Bottom line, if someone is so stupid and irresponsible at to text while behind the wheels of a 1 ton projective(car) they deserve the book being thrown at them. And if they fail to learn, punish them hard. Because it's clear they have zero respect for the law and life of others.

    It goes for cell phone use in vehicles as well.
  • SRLMSRLM Posts: 5,045
    edited 2011-12-12 22:30
    I think similar punishments should be in effect if you have food or a woman in your car. Food and sex are the two most stimulating (and distracting) natural human motivators. I propose a penalty of $1000 for first offenses on these stupid and irresponsible crimes, and if they keep on having food or women in their car while driving then the only sensible thing to do is to remove the drivers from contact with all law-abiding citizens.

    Freedom shouldn't be limited just because you don't do it.
  • graffixgraffix Posts: 389
    edited 2011-12-13 00:52
    Im glad this progressed some I was a little uneasy about posting my first post. Its been said that texting while driving is worse than driving drunk. It puts your mind in a very similar state. How would we stop it that makes sense? Every thing I think of has complications of some sort. Like using the gps to disable anything other than hands free use?Say, oh your phone is going faster than thirty mph. Problem is what if your one of 50 passengers on a bus ,subway or a train. We could push for autonomous vehicles. Thats more problems one being, some people love to drive.Another would be lack of maintnance or malfunction. Even roller coasters wreck and there is no driver. Maybe a proximity sensor of some sort, that disables the phone when closer than 4ft to the steering wheel?Any Ideas?
  • BeanBean Posts: 8,129
    edited 2011-12-13 04:21
    Do you realize how many millions of texts are sent and/or read while driving each day, and how few accidents are "caused" by texting each day ?

    If we are going to outlaw "distractions", then why not outlaw: Eating, adjusting the radio, adjusting the heat/AC, talking to passengers, applying makeup, smoking, having passengers, glove boxes, driving in snow/ice, etc, etc...

    Bean
  • graffixgraffix Posts: 389
    edited 2011-12-13 04:43
    You bring up a good point Bean.That's why some states limit it to new drivers I suppose.As to the other I think enforcing it is the problem.If you could cure the problem without handing out tickets would be ideal. Try to be realistic.
  • TorTor Posts: 2,010
    edited 2011-12-13 04:47
    I watched an episode of a Swedish police/detective/crime TV show where the detective accidentally killed a 12-year old girl. The episode producers had put together a real eye-opener. The detective was driving along a street, not particularly fast, maybe 30 km/h. (20 mph or so). Anyway, the detective was holding up his cellphone, a bit to the side, and glanced at it just when the girl came out between two parked cars and ran out on the street. Bang.

    It was brilliantly made. It was very realistic and from the camera view inside the car it was easy to see that if the detective had kept his eyes on the street and not fiddled with the phone then he would have had no problem with stopping the car in time. That one or two seconds he looked away made all the difference.

    That vision of the accident as played out in that TV episode doesn't go away. I wish everyone could see it - it would make them think.

    (But I've also been driving cars in Italy for years - there you quickly learn that if you don't keep your eyes on the road at all times then you're dead. I almost got killed once because I glanced down at the speedometer for a moment to check my own speed, and when I looked up again after just a moment all the traffic stopped to a screetching halt, going from 130 km/h to zero in no time. So that's one reason Italians don't bother with speed limits - it's much more important for safety to just watch the street and traffic at all times and not look away on instruments and whatnot. I'm not joking.)

    -Tor
  • Ron CzapalaRon Czapala Posts: 2,418
    edited 2011-12-13 04:57
    SRLM wrote: »
    Freedom shouldn't be limited just because you don't do it.

    Oliver Wendell Holmes - "The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins."

    In other words, your rights end when they infringe upon the rights of others. Texting and other driving distractions endanger the lives of others - period.
  • Ron CzapalaRon Czapala Posts: 2,418
    edited 2011-12-13 05:04
    Bean wrote: »
    Do you realize how many millions of texts are sent and/or read while driving each day, and how few accidents are "caused" by texting each day ?

    If we are going to outlaw "distractions", then why not outlaw: Eating, adjusting the radio, adjusting the heat/AC, talking to passengers, applying makeup, smoking, having passengers, glove boxes, driving in snow/ice, etc, etc...

    Bean

    Much of which you say is true - it proves that common sense isn't very common any more.

    Why don't we put TV screens on the dash so drivers can amuse themselves as they cross the center line and into your car...

    Oh, wait, some morons have already done that!
    Bean wrote: »
    Do you realize how many millions of texts are sent and/or read while driving each day, and how few accidents are "caused" by texting each day ?

    I'm sure that statistic will comfort someone who has lost a loved one due to a distracted driver using a cell phone.
  • ctwardellctwardell Posts: 1,716
    edited 2011-12-13 05:41
    Behaviours, material items, etc. tend to be banned when the population at large demonstrates that it cannot perform that behavior or use that item responsibly to the detriment of others.
    Texting and cell phones in general seem to now be in that category.

    The real problem is that people have become so self absorbed that what they want to do trumps any thought for the safety or consideration of others.

    I suppose the best answer is probably very high fines and allowing insurance companies to charge extreme rates to those that have been convicted of causing an accident through distracted driving. Oh, and parents need to learn to give kids a swift kick in the Smile.

    C.W.
  • Ron CzapalaRon Czapala Posts: 2,418
    edited 2011-12-13 05:50

    http://www.distraction.gov/content/get-the-facts/facts-and-statistics.html


    In 2009, 5,474 people were killed in crashes involving driver distraction, and an estimated 448,000 were injured. (NHTSA)

    16% of fatal crashes in 2009 involved reports of distracted driving. (NHTSA)

    20% of injury crashes in 2009 involved reports of distracted driving. (NHTSA)

    In the month of June 2011, more than 196 billion text messages were sent or received in the US, up nearly 50% from June 2009. (CTIA)


    Teen drivers are more likely than other age groups to be involved in a fatal crash where distraction is reported. In 2009, 16% of teen drivers involved in a fatal crash were reported to have been distracted. (NHTSA)

    40% of all American teens say they have been in a car when the driver used a cell phone in a way that put people in danger. (Pew)

    Drivers who use hand-held devices are 4 times more likely to get into crashes serious enough to injure themselves. (Monash University)

    Text messaging creates a crash risk 23 times worse than driving while not distracted. (VTTI)

    Sending or receiving a text takes a driver's eyes from the road for an average of 4.6 seconds, the equivalent-at 55 mph-of driving the length of an entire football field, blind. (VTTI)

    Headset cell phone use is not substantially safer than hand-held use. (VTTI)

    Using a cell phone while driving - whether it's hand-held or hands-free delays a driver's reactions as much as having a blood alcohol concentration at the legal limit of .08 percent. (University of Utah)

    Driving while using a cell phone reduces the amount of brain activity associated with driving by 37%. (Carnegie Mellon)
  • BeanBean Posts: 8,129
    edited 2011-12-13 06:04
    I'm sure that statistic will comfort someone who has lost a loved one due to a distracted driver using a cell phone.

    No, the statistics prove that the danger is not real. And the law is not needed.

    I wonder how many more accidents will happen when kids start texting with their phones in their lap so the police can see them texting ? That is what I'm going to do.

    Bean
  • Ron CzapalaRon Czapala Posts: 2,418
    edited 2011-12-13 06:07
    Bean wrote: »
    No, the statistics prove that the danger is not real. And the law is not needed.

    I wonder how many more accidents will happen when kids start texting with their phones in their lap so the police can see them texting ? That is what I'm going to do.

    Bean

    Sorry Bean, the research studies carry a little more weight than your opinion that "the danger is not real".
  • jvrproductionsjvrproductions Posts: 61
    edited 2011-12-13 06:11
    Bean wrote: »
    Do you realize how many millions of texts are sent and/or read while driving each day, and how few accidents are "caused" by texting each day ?

    If we are going to outlaw "distractions", then why not outlaw: Eating, adjusting the radio, adjusting the heat/AC, talking to passengers, applying makeup, smoking, having passengers, glove boxes, driving in snow/ice, etc, etc...

    Bean
    . What about if your family is part that "few accident"? You have the right to have a gun on Florida but that don't give you the right to kill a person. If you have a phone and know that text and drive can kill you or kill other person why don't made rules that force the people to do no text and drive? sorry for my English
  • Ron CzapalaRon Czapala Posts: 2,418
    edited 2011-12-13 06:27
    Bean wrote: »
    I wonder how many more accidents will happen when kids start texting with their phones in their lap so the police can see them texting ? That is what I'm going to do.

    Bean

    Gee, I had no idea that the content of your text messages was so important that it is worth putting your life and the lives of others at risk!
  • Ron CzapalaRon Czapala Posts: 2,418
    edited 2011-12-13 06:44
    http://Texting Teen Charged With Negligent Homicide

    Texting Teen Charged With Negligent Homicide

    A Brooklyn teen has been charged with negligent homicide after hitting a delivery man while she was allegedly texting behind the wheel. Nechama Rothberger hit scooter-riding Tian Sheng Lin as she made a left turn on Avenue P near East 17th Street in Brooklyn, which left Lin with severe head trauma. Lin was declared brain dead, and later died from his injuries.
    Rothberger initially was charged with a misdemeanor of reckless driving and using a mobile phone while driving; she told cops she didn't see Lin, and police found a half-written outgoing text message on her phone at the scene. Rothberger's lawyer previously said that she "didn't hit him intentionally. It was merely an accident." Rothberger is free on $5,000 bail, and Lin's wife says she wants "justice for my husband."

    http://www.ergoweb.com/news/detail.cfm?id=2145

    Texting Driver Charged with Negligence in Fatal Accident

    August 20, 2007
    By Jennifer Anderson

    A man involved in a three-car accident in Utah that killed two men in 2006 was charged in August with negligent homicide – for driving while texting. Lawmakers are beginning to hear the message from ergonomists and other experts that any cell phone use behind the wheel is a dangerous distraction. The Utah accident could lead to stronger calls for a ban, at least against DWT – driving while texting.

    It is not difficult for prosecutors to prove. Defendant Reggie P. Shaw’s SUV crossed the center line as he made the early morning drive between the towns of Tremonton and Logan in September 2006, according to The Salt Lake Tribune. His vehicle clipped an oncoming car and caused it to spin into the path of a pick-up, which crashed and killed its driver and a passenger. Officials obtained cell phone records, which showed Shaw sent and a received text messages as he drove. The last message was sent just as he crossed the center line, clipping the oncoming car, according to the court records.

    Nearly a dozen states are trying to outlaw text messaging behind the wheel, the Tribune noted.

    http://madtownbicyclelawyer.blogspot.com/2011/05/wisconsin-texting-driver-charged-with.html

    WISCONSIN TEXTING DRIVER CHARGED WITH NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE

    According to the Wisconsin State Journal, a young woman struck and killed a young man on East Johnson Street in Madison in October 2010. The collision happened just after noon after the young man stopped his car and had his hazards on. According to the WSJ story, the defendant told police she slammed on her brakes but there was no evidence at the scene of braking. Also mentioned in the story was the fact the the young woman's phone showed three (3) text messages were sent just before the time of the collision.

    Texting and driving is becoming very popular. It seems every time I am at a red light and oftentimes whilst passing or getting passed by another driver-that person is texting. While Wisconsin does have a new texting law-enforcement is next to impossible. Since it is not illegal to dial a phone, it is difficult to prove that someone is texting and not just turning on their phone or dialing etc.

    While there is nothing postive about texting while driving-people injured by drivers can often obtain the driver's phone records. Unlike a lot of other evidence that may be subject to multiple interpretations, text records showing exact times are very probative of negligence and in the case above even lead to felony homicide charges.

    The lesson-don't text behind the wheel. You could kill someone and go to prison for up to 10 years.
    Wisconsin Homicide by Negligent Use of a Motor Vehicle: Wis. Stat. 940.10(1)
    (1) Whoever causes the death of another human being by the negligent operation or handling of a vehicle is guilty of a Class G felony.

    To prove the above charge, the State will have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that:
    1. The defendant operated a motor vehicle;
    2. The defendant operated a motor vehcile in a manner that constituted criminal negligence;
    3. The defendant's criminal negligence caused the death of the decedent

    Criminal negligence means:
    1. The defendant's operation of a vehicle created a risk of death or great bodily injury;
    2. The risk of death or GBI was substantial and unreasonable;
    3. Drive should have been aware that his/her operation of a vehicle created the unreasonable and substantial risk of death or GBI.
  • BeanBean Posts: 8,129
    edited 2011-12-13 06:56
    Just because they were texting doesn't mean the accident wouldn't have happened had they not been texting.
    Of all the fatal car accidents more people are wearing their seatbeat then not. Proof that wearing your seatbeat should be outlawed.

    And many times more are killed by makeing left turns. I move that we outlaw left turns too.

    Bean
  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2011-12-13 07:01
    Worse yet, the research shows that teens and young adults who believe they're not impaired by texting or other "tech distractions" are, in fact, functionally impaired, whether in terms of increased reaction times or decreased accuracy. Some studies have suggested that the amount of brain network available in specific areas is roughly divided up among the tasks being managed and reaction times increase accordingly.

    We do outlaw left turns when there's observable increased danger from them, whether from traffic volume at certain times or the specifics of the intersection design / construction / environment.

    More people are wearing seatbelts in fatal accidents than not because there are penalties for not wearing a seatbelt. Research, both on "crash dummies" and analysis of statistics on fatalities and injuries in automobile accidents, as shown that seatbelts reduce injury and fatalities.
  • W9GFOW9GFO Posts: 4,010
    edited 2011-12-13 07:09
    The lesson-don't text behind the wheel. You could kill someone and go to prison for up to 10 years.
    Wisconsin Homicide by Negligent Use of a Motor Vehicle: Wis. Stat. 940.10(1)
    (1) Whoever causes the death of another human being by the negligent operation or handling of a vehicle is guilty of a Class G felony.

    To prove the above charge, the State will have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that:
    1. The defendant operated a motor vehicle;
    2. The defendant operated a motor vehcile in a manner that constituted criminal negligence;
    3. The defendant's criminal negligence caused the death of the decedent

    Criminal negligence means:
    1. The defendant's operation of a vehicle created a risk of death or great bodily injury;
    2. The risk of death or GBI was substantial and unreasonable;
    3. Drive should have been aware that his/her operation of a vehicle created the unreasonable and substantial risk of death or GBI.

    This is an example of existing laws that cover the bad behavior of texting while driving. There is simply no need for yet another law, it's just a feel good thing.

    The cell phone use laws that we have now are actually encouraging texting. Easier to hold the phone low out of view and text than to get out the bluetooth headset.
  • Ron CzapalaRon Czapala Posts: 2,418
    edited 2011-12-13 07:50
    Bean wrote: »
    Just because they were texting doesn't mean the accident wouldn't have happened had they not been texting.
    Of all the fatal car accidents more people are wearing their seatbeat then not. Proof that wearing your seatbeat should be outlawed.

    And many times more are killed by makeing left turns. I move that we outlaw left turns too.

    Bean

    Making left turns is necessary (to facillitate traffic flow) - texting while driving is not necessary.

    Neither is putting on makeup, etc, etc - a little common sense goes a long way...

    I love technology and gadgets but when people become so obsessed that taking their phone away causes anxiety and withdrawal symptoms, there is a problem.
  • TorTor Posts: 2,010
    edited 2011-12-13 08:14
    Bean wrote: »
    Of all the fatal car accidents more people are wearing their seatbeat then not. Proof that wearing your seatbeat should be outlawed.
    You're joking, presumably.. but, just in case you aren't: Of all the fatal car accidents more people are wearing their clothes on than not. Proof that wearing clothes while driving should be outlawed?

    When using statistics it pays to understand statistics too.

    -Tor
  • Ron CzapalaRon Czapala Posts: 2,418
    edited 2011-12-13 08:35
    W9GFO wrote: »
    This is an example of existing laws that cover the bad behavior of texting while driving. There is simply no need for yet another law, it's just a feel good thing.

    But since laws are subject to interpretation and lawyers are so adept at twisting them to their purpose, the more precise the wording of the law, the easier it is to achieve the intent of the law.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2011-12-13 08:47
    Except if you found out what was the cause of every road traffic fatality or injury and carefully crafted a law to make sure that never happened again you would probably find that it's impossible to drive without bteaking a law. With the result that either:
    a) Nobody drives any more. Very safe but unlikely.
    b) Everybody ignores the laws and drives anyway. Even more dangerous than the current situation.

    By all metrics the USA has a serious problem with it's road safety. It is very high up on the world wide road fatality stats. And I can't believe that's down to texting.

    Also the fatality stats since the early 1990s show a const decline despite the huge rise in mo ile phone usage in that time.
  • W9GFOW9GFO Posts: 4,010
    edited 2011-12-13 09:07
    I'm sure you've heard that you can get a DUI even if your car is parked, ignition off and you are at the controls. The next step is that you can get fined for texting or making a phone call even when your car is parked.

    If the existing laws were enforced better, fatalities would decline. If you could stop people from tailgating and following too closely, there would be a drastic decrease in the number of accidents. More-so than if everyone stopped texting. We already have laws that say you can't follow too close but nearly everyone does, and it is largely ignored by law enforcement.

    As far as statistics, I am sure that the accident described in the first post will add to the texting statistics even though the major cause was following too closely.
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