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loud but small, thin audio speaker — Parallax Forums

loud but small, thin audio speaker

Tracy AllenTracy Allen Posts: 6,664
edited 2014-02-16 12:32 in Propeller 1
I have a project where audio clips will be played from a Prop/SD, and the speaker has to fit into a small space constrained to roughly 2" diameter by 1/2" thick, preferably half that. The customer requested something like volume and quality of the iPhone. I have a TPA4861 audio amp that puts out nearly a watt into a bridged 8Ω speaker, and it sounds great with plenty of volume when it feeds into a decent speaker. However, the small speakers I've tried don't cut the mustard, too soft and mediocre quality.

I'm looking at the tiny openings on the bottom on an iPhone and wondering what is under there, and again, looking at the Mouser catalog at offerings from Kobitone and Pui but don't know where to start. Does anyone have suggestions? Thanks!
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Comments

  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2011-12-06 11:09
    A UK firm was making flat speakers a few years ago, which gave good sound quality. I think they were bigger than 2", though.
  • mindrobotsmindrobots Posts: 6,506
    edited 2011-12-06 11:25
    Tracy,

    I did a Google for micro speaker and came up with this site: http://www.buzzer-speaker.com/manufacturer/speaker/10-28%20speaker.htm
    They have from 10mm dia x 2.7mm thick on up. I would imagine there are other places with similar items. Of course, going back to my early stereo buying days, I always want to hear speakers before I buy.

    Maybe all-electronics or some of the other surplus houses?
  • pedwardpedward Posts: 1,642
    edited 2011-12-06 11:26
    I just took a speaker from a greeting card and hooked it up to the prop directly, works well. 40mm driver, 8ohms, 6mm thick.
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2011-12-06 11:28
    Tracy,

    Any speaker will require a resonant chamber for maximum volume and fidelity. The iPhone housing provides such a chamber. Awhile back, I had a similar requirement, and came up with the MG41S from mgelectronics.com, an enclosed speaker that's 1 1/8" dia. x 1/2" thick. It sounds pretty good for a speaker that small. They may have something bigger in diameter, which would be even better if you've got the room for it.

    Here's a link to their PC-mountable speakers page:

    -Phil
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,256
    edited 2011-12-06 11:37
    My buddy has a $$ program which is supposed to optimize the size of the chamber for any given speaker. I could ask for his input if you have interest.
  • Ron CzapalaRon Czapala Posts: 2,418
    edited 2011-12-06 11:47
    You might want to check Jameco - they have a variety of small speakers and now they offer US Postal Service shipping...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2011-12-06 11:57
    This new flat speaker technology doesn't need a resonant chamber:

    http://www.warwickaudiotech.com/
  • Tracy AllenTracy Allen Posts: 6,664
    edited 2011-12-06 12:04
    Good point about the

    I welcome the suggestions. I see that Kobitone does offer "multilayer piezo speakers" that are only 1mm thick and 25mm square, frequency response 300-20000 Hz, +75dBA at 3Vrms drive, but how would it sound?

    This project will require about 40 speakers, so I don't know about tearing up greeting cards! I'd like to find what kind of OEM speaker they use.

    We can do something in the way of a cavity around the speaker, so that will take some experimentation. The ones from MGElectronics look promising. Phil, what power level were you using to drive them, and how would you compare the volume to, say, an iPhone? It is incredible, the speaker opening on the iPhone is only about 10mm x 2mm on the narrow bottom end, so I wonder if the speaker is mounted perpendicular to the opening, and how much of a resonant cavity there can be?

    One that I tried is the Kobitone 253-CE221-RO with the following graph:
    Screen shot 2011-12-06 at 11.44.11 AM.png


    The +83 dBA rating (at ?? Vrms) seems to be commensurate with others that are available.
  • zoopydogsitzoopydogsit Posts: 174
    edited 2011-12-06 12:51
    I saw in the recent Rockby flyer advertized the COT-01A

    Device:COT-01A
    Output:90dB @ 10cm/2.7kHz,3.2kHz
    Size(LBHmm):9x9x7
    Manufacturer:Star Micronics

    http://www.rockby.com.au/Rockby/Mailer/WEEKE192_2.htm

    It may be worth looking at that manufacturer to see what else they offer.
  • Tracy AllenTracy Allen Posts: 6,664
    edited 2011-12-06 22:05
    I'm still looking into this, and had a nice conversation with Eric at MG Electronics. (Thanks for the pointer, Phil.) They custom manufacture with minimum orders, but they also have stock items that are sold thru outlets like JameCo. He thought he might have something suitable "in the back" so we'll talk again tomorrow.

    The warwickaudiotech flat panels are interesting Leon, out of my league though. They are sketchy on the details. Probably a long shot, I did order one of the flat multilayer piezo speaker from Mouser out of curiousity.

    I'm realizing that it does come down to efficiency of translating electrical power to sound power, and speakers are in the 0.1% to 10% range at best. That makes me wonder even more about the iPhone speakers that I am supposed to emulate. Here are a couple of photos of the speaker assembly from ifixit.com--Disassembling-iPhone-4S-Speaker-Enclosure. On the left the speaker openings next to the red circles and on the right the speaker assembly in their chamber. So, I'm still wondering, how do they do that?

    Screen shot 2011-12-06 at 9.13.47 PM.png
    Screen shot 2011-12-06 at 9.12.42 PM.png
  • Tracy AllenTracy Allen Posts: 6,664
    edited 2011-12-06 22:12
    Zoopydogsit, I think that is a resonant transducer that just produces one or two tones. Things can be made much more efficient when they are resonant.

    Erco, thanks for the offer to ask your friend about the chamber size. Maybe, I will see how this plays out. The sound came up as an add-on late in the game on this project. Thanks all for suggestions, there are so many choices and too many conflicting parameters and no chance to hear before buy!
  • Toby SeckshundToby Seckshund Posts: 2,027
    edited 2011-12-06 23:38
    Most 'phone speakers rely on the close distanse coupling to convey any form of frequency coverage, a bit like headphones. Careful choice of the resonant cavity will assist in things.

    Flat speakers ... dont get me started!
  • Tracy AllenTracy Allen Posts: 6,664
    edited 2011-12-08 10:49
    Thanks for the suggestions. I've ordered a sampler of a few to try out. Let me be more specific about the project.
    wawatch.jpg

    The interface started off as a project for wildland firefighters, with this light and sound device that signals quantitative smoke levels with a simple beep and a pattern of light from superbright LEDs, a big red "X" for perilously high levels. The smoke monitor/logger is connected to the "display" by a cable. For this the sounds were raucous and annoying and pretty soon were reduced to very occasional beeps to draw attention to substantial increases.

    The new project has quite a different audience, education where tobacco smokers are involved, again to signal smoke levels. But now the trick is that they are looking for significant sound clips to be played from SD. I'm skeptical about how that will be received, and am afraid it will get old, fast. But my mission is if possible to fit the lights and melodious sounds into the same 2" by 1.5" x 0.5" Serpac enclosure (or something comparable, can be a bit larger). Erco, do you think your friend's software might help with suggestions for how to baffle the enclosure, placement of the speaker and other openings?
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  • CircuitsoftCircuitsoft Posts: 1,166
    edited 2011-12-08 11:31
    I'd certainly try the last link from Sparkfun - It's a small surface transducer that will turn the box itself into the speaker, and will probably sound okay. If it sounds good enough, then that's a decent way to go. Otherwise, I'd get one of the options from PartsExpress, as long as it fits. Personally, I'm a huge TangBand fan and have been quite satisfied with the products of theirs that I have used. I have a pair of 6 1/2" subwoofers in my car. (Yes, they really are subwoofers; good down to 30Hz or so.)
  • Tracy AllenTracy Allen Posts: 6,664
    edited 2011-12-08 15:01
    That surface transducer is an intriguing option, but I wonder how it would sound if mounted on the lid of a box barely larger than the 23mm voice coil. Part-express also has a relatively large surface transducer on special sale for the interest factor. I'm ordering several different speakers on the R&D budget and we will sit down sometime soon to listen and compare.
  • Duane DegnDuane Degn Posts: 10,588
    edited 2011-12-08 15:19
    Tracy,

    I have six of the little SparkFun speakers mentioned earlier. I have yet to test any of them.

    If you think they are worth investigating, I could try making a recording of the sound they produce.

    I've wondered about connecting one in place of the S2's speaker and compare how the SparkFun speaker sounds against the stock S2 speaker.

    If you want, send me a PM with your address and I'll mail you a couple.

    Edit: I purchased these speakers for a project I am unlikely to continue to develop.
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2011-12-08 22:36
    I'm ordering several different speakers on the R&D budget and we will sit down sometime soon to listen and compare.
    That's really all you can do, Tracy. One thing I've discovered with speakers is that the specs don't tell you much of anything. You just have to make a judgment based on what they actually sound like.

    -Phil
  • CircuitsoftCircuitsoft Posts: 1,166
    edited 2011-12-09 05:10
    That's really all you can do, Tracy. One thing I've discovered with speakers is that the specs don't tell you much of anything. You just have to make a judgment based on what they actually sound like.

    -Phil

    If you get to speakers that are actually sold for HiFi use, then specs can actually start to tell you a lot. If you're just playing little sound clips, then the user is unlikely to hear the difference in smoothness of response, but you can actually guess how a speaker will sound by its T/S parameters.

    For any of the ones listed at Parts Express:
    • First look at the ratio of Vas to the enclosure volume you're working with.
      • If the speaker has a larger Vas, then the box significantly affects it.
      • If the speaker has a similar Vas, then the box somewhat affects it.
      • If the Vas is significantly lower than the box volume, then the box may as well be infinitely large.
    • Next look at the Qts:
      • If the box affects the speaker, it does so by raising the Qtc and Fsc of the system above the Qts and Fs of the speaker.
      • Qtc defines how "boomy" the box will be near the Fsc of the system.
      • .707 will give you a flat response with no bump near the bottom; 1.0 will have a little bump. 2.0 will have significant bump near the bottom, and can begin to sound muddy from resonance.

    So, there's your rule of thumb. If you want me to do actual enclosure modelling for you, let me know the size of your box, and pick out a driver. I'll let you know how well it'll work in your box. Note, though; even if the box is large enough to not really affect the speaker, you still need to have it well-sealed to the box to baffle waves from the front to the back of the speaker. If there is a path around the speaker, your low frequencies will be limited to the wavelength of the shortest path from the front to the back of the speaker.
  • Tracy AllenTracy Allen Posts: 6,664
    edited 2011-12-15 21:46
    Circuitsoft, I meant to thank you for these insights. Interesting stuff. The speaker and enclosure are coming together, but there will not be much room for optimization expect perhaps by drilling strategic holes in the enclosure and fitting a grill.

    As it turns out, the speaker for this project is going to have to be considerably bigger than I had originally intended and the enclosure too will grow to match. The little flat speakers rated at a fraction of a watt simply did not have satisfactory sound quality and volume. The one that came out high in the listening tests was the Cui CMS0401KL-1X. It is on a 40mm square mount and is 4.5mm deep. I have a photo below next to the veho360 speaker that Ken has been extolling in another thread, so I got one of those too to compare sound. The speaker inside the veho360 is very similar in appearance to the OEM Cui speaker on the right,but a little smaller. And they are about the same price, The CUi speaker is $12 from Digikey, while the complete veho360 is just buck or two more and includes the hamburger case, the amplifier, the lithium battery, the cables, etc. (Is that me, saying, "hack the veho!").
    CUI_veho.jpg

    The enclosure that I will use for the speaker is dictated by other considerations. It is in the second photo. The enclosure (serpac) is 5"x2"x1", but it will be crammed with other stuff, including a propeller, SD card, XBee and a small LiPo battery. A protective grill over the speaker will be important, and ah, there is that veho again. The grill appears to be a perforated metal that has been rammed into shape. We could use a flat piece, but the speaker would have to be recessed a little with a gasket to separate it from the diaphragm. I'm still open to suggestions.
    Cui_serpac_veho.jpg
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  • ericballericball Posts: 774
    edited 2011-12-16 19:01
    What function will the grill provide? Could the speaker be left exposed (or is there concern that the flexible surround could get damaged)? Would it be possible / easier to just perforate the case instead of mounting a separate grill? Would fabric or foam serve instead of metal?
  • Toby SeckshundToby Seckshund Posts: 2,027
    edited 2011-12-17 02:16
    It is a written law that if a speaker cone is exposed then it must be poked!

    (a bit like if you set up a camera chart (showing my age now) some git would stand in front of it, although this could be a useful feature if you are unsure if you are the last person on earth)

    One other thing, try not to push too much bass through the little speaker, it does little to enhance any thing but very near field response and just forces the cone to its extremes.
  • Tracy AllenTracy Allen Posts: 6,664
    edited 2011-12-17 12:24
    Yes, it is a finger poking issue. These will be in locations where lots of people including children can see and "accidentally" touch them. For the moment I have put a fine stainless steel mesh over the speaker with a gasket behind that to hold the speaker away from the screen. It would be nice to perforate the case. Is it possible to do that in ABS with a laser cutter?

    IMG_1946.jpg
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  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2011-12-17 16:49
    Tracy,

    Here's a link that deals with lasering ABS:

    I've never tried it myself.

    -Phil
  • EmptyBitEmptyBit Posts: 72
    edited 2011-12-18 15:01
    I am using the CUI Speaker Digikey GF0666M-ND on my adaptive projects. As much as I'd like to condense these; they were never intended as iphone pocket portables.

    Obviuously my NEMA enclosure has tons of room compared to yours. Initially the speaker conflicted with the Parallax LCD. I ended up removing the LCD case and epoxied new mounts for the LCD guts alone. No more conflicts.

    Never could find a speaker grille to fit. I finally designed and cut my own ABS grilles on my CNC mill. Actually I designed many configurations and opted for the stronger one for an industrial setting. I put the speaker in from the top side, so this reduces how much protrudes into the enclosure.

    Although my grille is adequate, it is somewhat expensive to produce considering machine time from the back side, flip and chamfer the edge and countersink from the front side. A high rpm router spindle could do it in 1/4 the time. My VK3 spindle is limited to 4000rpm max. Laser is great for flat pattern work, but not pockets to depth etc.

    I will be testing the Velleman audio amp kits K8066 and VM114. Limiting their max output to suit.


    speakergrillepic.JPG
    Enclosurepic.JPG
    grilles.jpg
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  • Tracy AllenTracy Allen Posts: 6,664
    edited 2011-12-18 21:49
    Well, laser cutting ABS looks to be a smelly, smoking undertaking. On the other hand ABS does machine smoothly with conventional tools.

    Emptybit, those are nice grill patterns the one you chose is artful. The way I have it now with one big hole (Greenlee chassis punch) with SS mesh screen is holding up ok, but it really could benefit from additional support toward the center. I wonder how it would sound with a hexagonal pattern of 7 holes instead of one large hole.
  • Tracy AllenTracy Allen Posts: 6,664
    edited 2011-12-18 21:50
    The CUI speaker is rated at 4W. The amplifier chip I have in the prototype is a TPA4861 nominally rated 1W from a 5V supply. 8-pin soic, linear amplifier. The speaker output is bridged for better drive, and the input is easy to connect to Prop output via a low-pass filter. It works fine and the sound is decent.

    Nevertheless, I'm also looking at the TPA2006 (8 pin dfn), which is a class D amplifier and therefore operates at a higher efficiency in delivering 1.4W nominal. I've had a long interest in class D, but wonder if there might be problems with aliasing between class D pwm and artifacts left from the Propeller duty mode.
  • CircuitsoftCircuitsoft Posts: 1,166
    edited 2011-12-19 08:22
    Nevertheless, I'm also looking at the TPA2006 (8 pin dfn), which is a class D amplifier and therefore operates at a higher efficiency in delivering 1.4W nominal. I've had a long interest in class D, but wonder if there might be problems with aliasing between class D pwm and artifacts left from the Propeller duty mode.
    Class D amplifiers really only buy you longer battery runtime if you're making noise often. You may be able to obviate the need for a grill and get louder by going with a horn-loaded design. On top of your current box, put another layer with a cut out that starts half the width of the speaker and expands exponentially to the full width of the box, the put another solid layer on top of that. That's just a very rough design, and won't sound fantastic, but could certainly be good enough.

    Also, since you're willing to expand the enclosure a little, take a look at some of the speakers I listed, especially 1" PolyCone fullrange pair and the HiWave BMR5 Compact speakers. The HiWave one, being a square, will produce more sound per amount of surface area used, and it can probably handle the abuse of being exposed to fingers pretty well, too.
  • CircuitsoftCircuitsoft Posts: 1,166
    edited 2011-12-19 08:24
    Also, the 2" TangBand fullrange has 4ohm impedance, and much higher efficiency than any other options I've seen. I don't imagine you're pushing too much bass, so it should be reasonable, if expensive.
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