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$50 7" Android Touchpad — Parallax Forums

$50 7" Android Touchpad

ercoerco Posts: 20,259
edited 2011-12-09 06:33 in General Discussion
http://cgi.ebay.com/Google-Android-Panimage-7%3F-Color-Tablet-2GB/190610855815?_trksid=p1468660.m2000036

It doesn't give much info on this refurb unit, not even the OS number, so I suspect it's not the greatest touchpad (it does mention stylus). But the prices keep dropping, and it's already getting close to the price of a digital picture frame of the same size. AFAIK, the display is still the most expensive part, so that's probably the limiter on how low prices can go.

Eventually I'll have to get a real tablet and see what all the fuss is about. I was flying last weekend with my trusty Acer netbook, which did everything I needed. Everyone else had their (ugh) Ipads. Old people, young people, those things have really caught on.

Comments

  • Martin_HMartin_H Posts: 4,051
    edited 2011-12-06 09:59
    Without specifying the OS version and CPU I'd avoid it.

    I've heard you can pick up a refurbished color nook for a bit above $100 on eBay. That would be better because there's much more support for that unit than some no name one.
  • Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
    edited 2011-12-06 10:05
    I'm waiting for this...

    http://www.itworld.com/230459/tablet-priced-under-100-android-40-surfaces

    Looks like I'll be waiting to program my Propeller from a droid eventually... What will it take to get this accomplished? :)

    OBC
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2011-12-06 10:13
    Android sits on top of Linux, so it should be feasible,
  • graffixgraffix Posts: 389
    edited 2011-12-06 12:10
    Looks nice,OBC
  • $WMc%$WMc% Posts: 1,884
    edited 2011-12-06 17:25
    Could one run Windows on and Android?
    '
    This would be worth looking into!
  • Martin_HMartin_H Posts: 4,051
    edited 2011-12-06 19:03
    Windows 8 will support x86 and the ARM architectures. So it is possible in theory, but the big challenge is getting drivers for the hardware. On the XDA developers forum it seems vendors are really reluctant to open source their drivers which makes third party ports really thorny.

    The Chinese tablet in the link says it uses the MIPS architecture which means that third party support will likely be nonexistent.
  • TorTor Posts: 2,010
    edited 2011-12-07 01:31
    Leon wrote: »
    Android sits on top of Linux, so it should be feasible,
    Linux, but it's ARM and not x86, so e.g. bst will not run (not open source, so can't be recompiled). But the GCC effort should be just the thing, maybe?

    (Edit: The post Leon replied to was about a link to another tablet (not the one in the first post), and that one runs on MIPS not ARM.. but the non-x86 problem is the same of course. Another thing is that I don't see much point in a MIPS-based Android device - you wouldn't be able to use any of the applications found on the Android Market, for example.)
    (Edit2: Scratch that part about the Android Market, I forgot for a moment about Dalvik - a kind of Java-like virtual machine that Android uses. The point about using the bottom-layer Linux system for e.g. bst still stands though - won't work.)

    I'm eyeing those Asus combo netbook/tablet gadgets. They're like small 10" netbooks, but the screen can be detached and used as a touch-screen tablet. Runs Android. There's a battery in each section, and the 'keyboard' section functions as a charging docking-station for the screen, if necessary - one battery re-charges the other. Or at least that's how I've understood it from what a colleague explained to me. There are a couple of these things here at work.

    Obviously the price is nothing near the $50 no-name Android Touchpads mentioned in the first post, but these combos seem more useful to me. Of course I would also wish for the possibility to work with my Propeller boards just the way I currently do with my x86 Linux laptop. Sigh. Well, if GCC will eventually work also on ARM devices then maybe there's a way forward, even if it's sans Spin.

    -Tor
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2011-12-07 03:58
    $WMc%,

    The "Android" in question is a Linux based operating system. So running any kind of Windows on it is a no no unless you employ a virtual machine which is just going to suck.

    Most machines running Android are ARM processor based so most of the Windows apps you know and love will not run on it even if you had an ARM build of Windows available.

    Why do you want to run Windows in this day and age anyway?

    Tor,

    BST will not run on ARM unless we get BradC to build a binary for it. Brad has gone very quite recently so I would not count on that happening.

    BUT there is always mpark's HomeSpun which is written in C# and runs anywhere that supports a .NET interpreter. I have HomeSpun working on an ARM based board about the size of a credit card. I believe there is a .NET run time for Android so this might be doable already.

    Or, Parallax is working on a version of the Spin compiler in C. So eventually that could be used on Android.

    Problem is how to do the serial download....

    Anyway, I don't think I'd want to spend even $50 on a machine with no specs available.
  • Dr_AculaDr_Acula Posts: 5,484
    edited 2011-12-07 04:22
    I have a Pandapad tablet. Lots it can do (wireless download of a basic program) but lots it can't do either (no real world interface such as a USB to serial device, and even a USB keyboard does not work. USB mouse does though). The technology is still immature. I don't know how much of that is an Android problem and how much is a hardware problem. I don't know if a tablet can be reprogrammed to run Windows CE - and whether this has more drivers written for basic things like keyboards and USB to serial devices.

    @heater - you say there is a .net runtime for Android? Well, that might move things forward a bit.

    Seems at the moment we have clever chips like the Propeller with great real world interfaces but with old-skool text based displays, or we have tablets with amazing displays but no way of getting data in and out.

    Google talks about the "internet of things". Surely it is not too hard to create a device that has a decent display and can interface to the real world and does not cost a fortune and which can run on batteries for a long time?

    I have been thinking that Android might be the answer, but more recently I've been moving towards Windows CE as I think it might have better real world interface, better drivers, better power management and can run a common language like .net.

    I'm not a huge fan of Android. Just now, my Android pandapad decided to crash trying to open the music files. So, reboot (manual "force close" of a program) and then restart takes over 3 minutes. This is too long for a robot and you can't control the process. And now it hangs with "safely remove device". Too many errors, too unstable an operating system. Maybe the kids are prepared to put up with this on a phone, but if this were running a real lunar lander on the moon, or a quadcopter...

    The 'ultimate' device ought to be able to run your robot and go to sleep at night, but when you want it to, have enough smarts and a decent enough display that you can rewrite the code on the actual device. Raspberry Pi, BeagleBoard, Hawkboard?
  • Dr_AculaDr_Acula Posts: 5,484
    edited 2011-12-07 04:23
    [duplicate post, unable to delete, sorry]
  • TorTor Posts: 2,010
    edited 2011-12-07 04:40
    Update: I forgot for a moment there that Android applications run under the 'Dalvik' virtual machine environment, so Android Market applications should actually run on that MIPS-powered tablet too. I've updated my earlier post. Running anything else natively on the bottom-layer Linux environment will still not be possible for x86-type applications though, whether the tablet runs on ARM (as most do) or MIPS.

    Hm.. maybe what we need is an Android App(lication) variant of e.g. BST or Parallax' variant.. and, eventually, the GCC effort.

    -Tor
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2011-12-07 07:21
    Dr_A,

    Yes there is a .net runtime for Android. Sadly the dev kit license is $399 !! And the dev kit only runs on Windows and Mac.

    Tor,

    Yes, originally Android apps were supposed to written in Java. But now there is a native development kit so you can compile Pascal/C/C++ etc down to ARM binaries and run them from a Java wrapper. It is even possible to use the Qt tool kit on Android.

    Now that we are seeing Android on x86 and MIPS devices I wonder how apps with native code will be handled.
  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 18,069
    edited 2011-12-07 10:24
    A cheap entry could be the car GPS units that I now see retailing for ~$75. Hopefully someone will hack one. But its not android.

    That Android 4.0 tablet is looking good. Once available outside China it will be interesting to see reviews.

    Once editting on android is refined, I would like to move lots of my apps to android. I could use a bluetooth keyboard and mouse with it when home. When that is possible then prop development could be next (with bst or equiv when available). Downloading would need to be via a bluetooth or wifi purposebuilt box to serial - when the rest is available then "box" will need to be done - no incentive to do this yet.

    O.T. I have a Motorola Xoom. Nice device for what I use it for:-
    1. Accessing internet to read the forums when away from my laptop - laptop works better only because keyboard interface when replying is not up to the task (bet an iPad is)
    2. Uses wifi to home router when home or at someones place with wifi connection
    3. Has inbuilt mobile internet connection when away from wifi, including use as a hotspot. So, I can use my laptop on the internet as well.

    I love the Xoom. BUT it is no iPad !!! The interface and usability leave a lot to be desired and I believe this is an android problem. I am certain the iPad is a much better device. Android has a long way to go to catch up with Apple.
  • localrogerlocalroger Posts: 3,452
    edited 2011-12-07 11:52
    The 7 inch photo frame I hacked and demoed at UPEW is going for $29.99 right now at Office Depot.

    I have a flytouch android pad I got straight from China back when they were $99 and it's mostly a novelty; it does some things adequately but doesn't have the horsepower to do a lot of what it should, and the battery life is very poor. I haven't thought of a practical use for it and if I ever do it will probably start with opening the case to hook up a permanent power source.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,259
    edited 2011-12-07 13:43
    localroger wrote: »
    The 7 inch photo frame I hacked and demoed at UPEW is going for $29.99 right now at Office Depot.

    What did it do?
  • $WMc%$WMc% Posts: 1,884
    edited 2011-12-07 18:44
    @Heater:
    '
    Windows 8 will support x86 and the ARM architectures. So it is possible in theory, but the big challenge is getting drivers for the hardware. On the XDA developers forum it seems vendors are really reluctant to open source their drivers which makes third party ports really thorny.
    '
    This quote is just an example
    '
    Why wouldn't you want to run Windows?
    '
    Its pretty easy to call a windows dll for the drivers needed.((let Microsoft write the drivers)do the heavy lifting))...I'm getting to old for this $%^!
    '
    Please fill me in here? With the Linux thing..
  • localrogerlocalroger Posts: 3,452
    edited 2011-12-07 19:44
    erco wrote: »
    What did it do?

    28 lines of 60 characters 2 colors per line. Never got around to blogging it but I got the details and source code if anybody wants it.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2011-12-08 03:55
    $WMc%,

    I'm not sure what Martin_H's comments about XDA developers has got to do with
    me. But is it clear that if a hardware vendor will not publish the interface
    specs to his devices then it's make it hard or impossible to write software to
    drive them. No matter what OS you want to use. I think this is a pretty poor
    practice because it prevents you and me and 7 billion other people from doing
    all sorts of interesting things with equipment they have bought and paid for.
    Its pretty easy to call a windows dll for the drivers needed.((let Microsoft
    write the drivers)do the heavy lifting)).

    I'm sure that is is true. At least for the cases where MS provides support.
    ..I'm getting to old for this $%^!

    Is "$%^!" hiding some expletive? And if so are you suggesting I'm full of it?
    If so what have I said that needs fixing?
    Please fill me in here? With the Linux thing..

    I judge from you tone, correct me if I'm wrong, that you are perhaps as
    familiar with Linux as you would like to be. If you want to know more it's all
    over the net of course.
    Why wouldn't you want to run Windows?

    What me personally?

    Firstly, I don't have a problem with Windows on any technical basis. I'm pretty
    sure that for most of the things I want to do with most computing devices, PC,
    laptop, phone, tablet there is a Windows version that would fit the bill.

    Secondly, I'm not suggesting that Linux is the be all and end all of operating
    systems.

    I do have some serious non-technical objections to Windows. Perhaps I should just mention
    the most serious one here.

    It comes from a single supplier. In that suppliers view all computing devices
    should be using their solutions. That has some staggering implications:

    1) The entire worlds computing infrastructure becomes dependent on a single
    supplier which is totally out of their control. Indeed every country in the
    world becomes dependent on that single supplier mostly in a foreign country.

    2) Unlikely but if that supplier disappears the worlds computing infrastructure
    is in big trouble.

    3) Unlikely but if that supplier refuses to license to you you are in big
    trouble.

    4) Is it really so that from now till the end of the human race what we can do
    with our computers is to be dictated by MS?

    5) Is it really so that from now till the end of the human race we are all
    going to be shoveling money to Redmond just so that we can use our computing
    devices?

    6) I can't believe that with 7 billion people on this planet a few of them
    can't put their heads together dig a tunnel out of this trap. Well, of course
    that is what is happening.

    So...bottom line is that Windows may be just fine but I cannot support it's
    adoption everywhere.
  • $WMc%$WMc% Posts: 1,884
    edited 2011-12-08 17:01
    @Heater
    '
    When I said I was getting to old for this "$%^!", I was talking about writing drivers/etc. I can't see me spending a week or more writing a driver when I can call a dll. instead.
    '
    I like to use Compilers,But none of them will run on a Linux or MAC machine.This is why I can't see the big push for Linux other than its free.
    '
    Windows works for me,But I understand your point with Micro$oft.
    '
    The tablet would be neat if it could run windows.(I'm not familiar with the processor at all)
    '
    I didn't mean anything negative or derogatory in my previous post.Sorry if it came across that way.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2011-12-09 06:33
    No probs, just me being over sensitive.

    I'm curious, what compilers are you looking to use?

    Of course a compiler running on Windows probably won't run on Linux/Mac without some emulation or virtual machine. But there are so many languages for which there are compilers running on Linux and Macs.
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