Re: "thread necromancy"
Oldbitcollector (Jeff)
Posts: 8,091
@Moderator_Monkey
One of the difficult problems with resourcing information for the Propeller is the fact that the forums tend to "churn under" great information and software projects. This has been combated by several forum members (including myself) by creating alternative lists and on an occasion bumping a thread which perhaps contained a great project that was churned under a year or more ago. There are many new Propeller users who miss out on these projects because of forum churn.
Clarification: Am I to understand that this behavior is now discouraged? If so, how about helping us with a solution? The "sticky" threads are a mess.
OBC
One of the difficult problems with resourcing information for the Propeller is the fact that the forums tend to "churn under" great information and software projects. This has been combated by several forum members (including myself) by creating alternative lists and on an occasion bumping a thread which perhaps contained a great project that was churned under a year or more ago. There are many new Propeller users who miss out on these projects because of forum churn.
Clarification: Am I to understand that this behavior is now discouraged? If so, how about helping us with a solution? The "sticky" threads are a mess.
OBC
Comments
To quote from the forum guidelines:
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Bumping threads:
Bumping refers to an individual member posting on their own thread, or others posting on a thread, for the single purpose of maintaining its position on the forums. Typically the bumping-post is made which adds nothing of significant value, or it's repeating previously posted content or thanking someone else for a contribution. Keeping your post 'top-level' on the forums by bumping it up is frowned upon as forum's tactic and doing so may be met with moderation. This also pertains to old threads being revived for no reason; if the thread is of use then no worries.
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"...old threads revived for no reason..." which is to say that 'thread necromancy' resurrects long-since forgotten posts with no redeeming value. Surely posts with meaningful content aren't dead, so to say, but rather misplaced under the loads of other potentially useful threads generated while one such thread lay dormant. Thread necromancy, to me, is when a thread laden with drama and superfluous content is brought back to the top of the forums' listing.
That said, the sticky threads are a mess aren't they?
We have someone working on helping the stickies out, and with a little assistance in which threads are important and how to arrange them... she may be done very soon.
Sincerely,
-Monkey
Speaking from the perspective of someone who has been a forum moderator on another site, and a contributor to "stickies" in the Parallax forums I can say that there are pros and cons to stickies.
Pros: It is a way to combat the "churn" issue, and a quick/central place to access several posts/examples.
Cons: It can require a lot of maintenance by forum moderators/administrators. Moderators/administrators have to be pro-active and add the links/content, and the thread(s) themselves can become cluttered with "add" requests or posts with something new. When sites/content are removed, there are "dead links" that then have to be purged, or updated.
I don't know that "sticky threads" are a perfect medium to aggregate community-provided content, however they are "a" method that can be used.
I think the part that I would like to see clarification on is the following:
If by saying "repeating previously posted content," this is to address the issue of someone continually posting/linking of material offsite as a form of advertising: "I just updated [x] on my blog, check it out!" then this would make sense. I don't think that it is intended to mean that one should not link to one's projects offsite in general. Is this a correct understanding?
The portion about "thanking someone else for a contribution" is in the context of "bumping," when it is being done weeks/months/years past the original post with specific intent, however the enforcement would be subjective. There may well be cases where the forum member has not visited the site in a substantial length of time, and only then finds that someone has contributed to their post/project.
Thanks,
--trodoss
I am not privy to the intent of correcting/updating the sticky threads on the forums; I know someone was given the task, but I'm not sure what is to be done with it. I believe the duty was given in an attempt to clarify a few useful posts and streamline the flow of information to help guide new users to more content oriented pages. Again, I am not sure; your input is greatly appreciated however.
We hope to find an effective and erudite solution which works as a best fit for all of our members.
Correct,
It is not as if we will jump on someone and strike a post for moderation if you reply to a post with a "thank you, I found this information most helpful..." or "wow, you really have a hang of..." That is not the intent. We added this ruling to help us moderate when someone is abusing the system through outside links, advertising, or (not that this behavior was witnessed here) increasing their post count with quick replies.
Previously we didn't have anyway to address the issue should it arise, and it may become rephrased in the future, but it can be difficult to clarify the intent without becoming verbose. I wouldn't worry about any moderator on the Parallax Discussion Forum overly-moderating this rule; I really wouldn't worry about over moderation at all here. We're generally open and ok with the goings-on of this forum and are stout advocates of cordial demeanor and correspondence.
Yours,
-Monkey
I enjoyed several of Humanoido's attempts at indexing similar threads. I followed his example of using the test forum as an index (see my signature).
If this practice (of keeping an index in the test forum) is acceptable to Moderator Monkey, I'd like to see other forum members create lists of posts they have found interesting or educational.
This way we each create our own version of "sticky" threads.
It shouldn't take too long for people to figure out which lists correspond best to their own interests.
I personally have found it extremely useful to have a place to keep a list of threads I find interesting.
A search engine that works would be a improvement, but taking that a step further would be a way to link to prior content to the current content. Similar to predictive typing, you apply a similar scheme to the entire content of the post. Combine that with a way to 'add weight' to the link if the content was useful ( a simple histogram ... star rating, time spent on link, etc. )
How to implement that with our current system? - honestly, I have no idea
Do we have the resources to manage that? - probably not at Parallax, but I bet we do on the forum. Once implemented it would almost run itself.
Could a 3rd party program do it? - absolutely, I don't see why not.
Is there already something out there like that we could just aim at our sight? - probably, I'm not sure, it might be worth looking into,
I mean really, what we want is something that allows us to pick a particular area of interest and provide a highlighted path to get there do we not? ... and at the same time we want to be able to fill any gaps along the way if applicable to the area of interest.
Others have done similar indexes too, as OBC has said.
The one thing I do not like is the index continually being bumped as it gets updated.
However, they do need to be here somewhere, not on a wiki or any other offsite store.
The concept to me was that it would be totally maintained by us forum members and not by any Parallax staff. The only exception is that a thread to link to these lists needs to be kept in a sticky. It would be quite simple for the existing sticky "Propeller Resource Index" to have a link to this "Index Forum".
So here is an idea (it's not new, it has been raised many times upon deaf ears) that would be maintained by us, the forum members...
- Create a new general forum called something like "Indexes to popular topics"
- The first thread would be a sticky with a set of rules
- Each thread would become an index with a stated purpose
- The very first post of each thread would contain a set of rules... something like the first post here http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?106790-Prop-Tools-under-Development-or-Completed-(Index)
- Being in a totally separate forum it would not impact any of the current forum topics.
- The classic stickies could point to this top (stickie) thread.
- We would see (index) threads for things like
- Development Tools
- Various Memory add-on schemes
- Emulators with the prop
- Games with the prop
- Prop operating systems
- Prop self compilers (bet most are not aware mpark wrote a prop based spin/pasm compiler)
- This could be used for available hardware such as a thread for each of the following:
- Gadget Gangster
- Bill Hennings boards
- Cluso's boards
- Hanno's robotics, etc
- Tubulars open boards. etc.
- So, this would just be a set of threads that contained an index/link to other "popular" forum threads where the actual information was actually stored.
Personally, I put a lot of effort into the two indexes I created and maintained for some time, but a total lack of any type of Parallax support for this (like a link in the stickies) meant I gave up on maintaining it. If you look in my signature you will find links to two Indexes I maintained for some time.I agree with you, I know how hard it is to maintain an index list. I also know how it can easily get swallowed and disappear. What might work as well is an 'information tree' you pick a subject and traverse the hierarchy, say ... Motors .... what kind of motors? Steppers, Servo's, Brush-less, etc... and from there provide a links to what others have done with that particular motor as well as a demo(s) provided by Parallax if applicable. Something like that could be automated with a customizable/conditional search engine.
I'm not discounting your efforts at all, I know it's tough. At times it can be analogous to emptying a swimming pool with a Dixie cup. There is a lot of data out there mixed with even more junk. Combing through it by hand to create and maintain an index can be a never ending battle.
So Cluso99 has a great idea of providing a forum place for the index. I use the Test forum because it is out of the way and hopefully remains nonintrusive. Currently I'm trying to search a particular thread's posts text content. If this is successful, it could be applied to a specific forum place filled with each person's index. These indices could still be linked to signatures for personal and posting convenience.
I would have preferred to keep an index in my blog. Unfortunately the index would not display as nicely in my blog as it does in the test forum.
One has to press the "Previous" or the "Next" buttons to move between blog entries while in the forums there are multiple posts on one page.
The blog also requires and extra step (which I have forgotten) to make links show up without having to hover the mouse over the link.
I would move my index to my blog if Moderator Monkey requests it or if several forum members object to my using the test forum this way.
Fortunately edits to my index don't bump the thread or make it appear in the "What's New" list. Hopefully it will get nicely buried in the test forum so the only way one would now it's there is from the link in my signature (or the link in my blog).
I certainly don't think the limitations of the blog part of the forum warrant using other forums as a blog.