1/2 oz copper board is available, and would be better. It's what most board manufacturers use, it ends up as 1 oz when it's plated. Many people use thinner (0.8 mm) material, as well.
You should be using 1 oz, at any rate.
I just posted the artwork to you. You should get it in 2/3 days.
I did not see your last post until today, when I came to say thank you for the photomasks which arrived today. So thank you. I must say that your inkjet does a very nice job. Anyhow, I am in the process of reorganizing a lot of stuff, so I probably will not get around to an exposure for several days, but I am definitely interested to see how it turns out.
I have a little free time, so this morning I will be doing one or two exposures with the photomask that you provided, just to see how it turns out in comparison with yours. I do have one little problem though. I got a little lazy and did not clean out my etching bowl and the majority of the etchant has crystalized. Removing the main substance from the bowl is not a problem, but what is the best way to thouroughly clean the bowl after using ferric chloride? From this question, you can clearly see that I have not mixed up my own etchant just yet
You should be able to dissolve the crystals with some hot water.
Any stains can be removed with oxalic acid, it's available on Ebay for whitening wood. When I made that test board recently I got a couple of small splashes on the cotton trousers I was wearing. I dissolved a teaspoon of the oxalic acid in a little water and applied it to the stains. After leaving it to soak in for 30 minutes or so I put the trousers in the washing machine with some other items. When they were dry I couldn't see the stains.
It took me forever to finally get around to doing an exposure. I exposed your mask for 1 minute and 30 seconds. Initially it looked like it was going to turn out perfectly, but after etching and rinsing, that was not the case. The text was not clear and the 4/4, 6/6, and 8/8 traces had shorts. I am going try it again with a 2 minute exposure time.
Additionally, some of the traces had some heavy scratch marks, and I don't know where those came from. It must have been on the copper sheet before they applied the film.
I get problems like that if the resist is too old. It seems to go off after six months, although it is supposed to last longer. Of course, I don't know how long it has been on the shelf at my supplier, although they have told me that they only supply fresh stock.
Instead of 2 minutes, I just exposed one at 1 minute and 45 seconds, but this time, I kept checking the output with a magnifying glass before deactivating the developer in cold water. The text looks pretty clean, as well as everything else, except the 4/4 traces. I am heating the etchant now, so I will know here in just a few.
With the exception of another nasty scratch in the 15/15 pattern, all trace patterns turned out fairly nice except the 4/4 pattern, which is shorted. It appears that I left it in the etchant just a bit too long while trying to achieve the 4/4, because the 6/6 and 4/4 text is diminished.
Bad news:
It does not appear that I will be able to achieve a sample like yours with the mask that I received. There could be several reasons for this, just exactly what it is, I am not sure. However I am still convinced that I can get a 4/4 pattern, so I will just order a laser photoplot and test with that.
I must admit that I now have a much higher respect for inkjet printers, because I could not achieve 6/6 with my LaserJet.
UV is *much* easier.
Leon, come on, it is all light, just different wavelengths. Besides, I can expose both sides at once. Additionally, I can change out the bulbs to UV I am just currently testing DATAK boards and incandescent exposures.
I have not ordered them yet, but sometime later today, I will be ordering several more DATAK boards and photoplots for further testing of my exposure box. I will soon know the exact limitations of my exposure box/cylinder when used in conjunction with Philmore DATAK Premier Series PCB boards.
Bruce
EDIT: With 60W/120V Sylvania A15 Ceiling Fan Light Bulbs (Incandescent)
Pertaining to the sample you made and sent me, as you decreased the size of trace widths, did you also decrease font size? It appeared like it also decreased.
I have just discovered that when using Eagle as a PCB layout editor, better print outs for positive and negative masks can be obtained by first printing the board design to a pdf file and then printing the pdf file, as compared to directly printing the board from Eagle. I am now going to test ps files to see how it compares.
I ordered a couple more Philmore DATAK Premier Series PCB boards (1/16" 2oz. double sided FR-4 board with positive acting photo-resist film) and they should be arriving sometime Friday.
In addition to ordering the boards, I have also done some experimenting with the photomasks saved in a different file type, as previously mentioned above. I have chosen to use Encapsulated PostScript (*.eps) as my file type because it produces a very desirable print, and it is a common file type for many print shops, including OfficeMax and Office Depot. OfficeMax claims to have a 2400 DPI laser printer, so instead of ordering a laser photo plot, I am going to attempt to have OfficeMax print my positive mask and see how it turns out. The purpose behind using OfficeMax is to ascertain the quality of the mask because it is cheaper than a laser photo plot, it is readily available to me, and this service or something similar should be readily available for most people.
I would upload the EPS file, but apparently that option is not available.
My trip to OfficeMax was a huge waste of time. The only person working in the print shop had no clue of how to send files to the printer or how to alter printer settings. After the manager assisted him, I finally received a transparency that was completely unusable. My LaserJet 6L prints out a much higher quality transparency than their high dollar piece of equipment.
However, while I was there, I got the opportunity to eyeball a Samsung Monochrome Laser Printer, ML-2950 Series, 1200 DPI, for only $109. It appears to have much nicer print than my LaserJet.
Considering that I am just after the hobbyist and enthusiast market for my exposure box, I am contemplating getting one of these printers, and producing the best sample achievable with a 1200 DPI laser printed mask, as compared to ordering a photo plot, but I may do both.
Sorry to hear you had such a hard time at the print shop,
I really got lucky and found the kid that was proud of his printing machine, It really made all the difference..
Maybe try a different print shop, a smaller shop that just prints and mails stuff.
Of course, a brand new printer for yourself is allways a treat...
I really got lucky and found the kid that was proud of his printing machine, It really made all the difference..
Yea, that is exactly what I needed, but I figured it was a 50-50 shot between knowledgable and ignorant staff It was truly unfortunate that I got stuck with ignorance
Of course, a brand new printer for yourself is allways a treat...
I am now shying away from the Samsung printer due to inadequate documentation and I really want a printer that supports PostScript, due to my previously documented tests. I am now leaning towards a used LaserJet 2200D from eBay. The LaserJet 2200D has a resolution of 1200 X 1200 DPI and it also has auto-duplexing for double-sided printing, which will be very useful for my business printing needs.
Great PCB tutorial by the way
Yea, I thought it was pretty good and thought it deserved a link. I especially liked the fact that he covered solder masking.
There are problems when using laser printers for artwork, chiefly the printing of large copper areas. Cross-hatching can be used, of course.
Additionally, a permanent marker can always be used for touching up artwork.
Even with a LaserJet 2200D, I still don't know how it will compare to the mask that you sent me, however for the sake of comparison, with DPIs being on the same level, I want to see how the LaserJet 2200D will compare to your output. I think that eventually I will just use 10/10 or larger traces for my demonstration samples, because I don't think my exposure box or the LaserJet 2200D should have any problems with traces this size in combination with DATAK boards.
If the LaserJet 2200D fails to output an equivalent or better board than the sample that you made, I will then order a photo plot to see if it is even possible with my exposure box in combination with DATAK boards.
At this point, I am still unaware of the limitations of the combination of these two, and I really need to know the limitations and it's full potential for making quality boards.
Alright, the new DATAK boards have arrived and I should have a different printer very shortly. For almost the same price that I was willing to pay for the Samsung Monochrome Laser Printer, ML-2950 Series, I think I got a much better deal.
I just purchased a LaserJet 2200D that has a JetDirect network card, an extra 250 sheet paper tray for a total of 500 sheets, a partially filled toner cartridge, an additional 16 MB of memory has been added to the 8 MB stock memory for a total of 24 MB, and a 14 day money back warranty. YIPPEE
Hopefully it will not be a waste of time and money, and hopefully it output a much better photo mask.
Comments
You should be using 1 oz, at any rate.
I just posted the artwork to you. You should get it in 2/3 days.
I did not see your last post until today, when I came to say thank you for the photomasks which arrived today. So thank you. I must say that your inkjet does a very nice job. Anyhow, I am in the process of reorganizing a lot of stuff, so I probably will not get around to an exposure for several days, but I am definitely interested to see how it turns out.
Thanks
Bruce
It isn't bad for a cheap printer. I think I paid about £60 for it about four or five years ago, but they cost a lot more now.
I have a little free time, so this morning I will be doing one or two exposures with the photomask that you provided, just to see how it turns out in comparison with yours. I do have one little problem though. I got a little lazy and did not clean out my etching bowl and the majority of the etchant has crystalized. Removing the main substance from the bowl is not a problem, but what is the best way to thouroughly clean the bowl after using ferric chloride? From this question, you can clearly see that I have not mixed up my own etchant just yet
Bruce
I have not forgotten you
Bruce
You should be able to dissolve the crystals with some hot water.
Any stains can be removed with oxalic acid, it's available on Ebay for whitening wood. When I made that test board recently I got a couple of small splashes on the cotton trousers I was wearing. I dissolved a teaspoon of the oxalic acid in a little water and applied it to the stains. After leaving it to soak in for 30 minutes or so I put the trousers in the washing machine with some other items. When they were dry I couldn't see the stains.
It took me forever to finally get around to doing an exposure. I exposed your mask for 1 minute and 30 seconds. Initially it looked like it was going to turn out perfectly, but after etching and rinsing, that was not the case. The text was not clear and the 4/4, 6/6, and 8/8 traces had shorts. I am going try it again with a 2 minute exposure time.
Additionally, some of the traces had some heavy scratch marks, and I don't know where those came from. It must have been on the copper sheet before they applied the film.
Bruce
Instead of 2 minutes, I just exposed one at 1 minute and 45 seconds, but this time, I kept checking the output with a magnifying glass before deactivating the developer in cold water. The text looks pretty clean, as well as everything else, except the 4/4 traces. I am heating the etchant now, so I will know here in just a few.
Bruce
There is good news and there is bad news.
Good news:
Leon, come on, it is all light, just different wavelengths. Besides, I can expose both sides at once.
But you currently win
Bruce
I have not ordered them yet, but sometime later today, I will be ordering several more DATAK boards and photoplots for further testing of my exposure box. I will soon know the exact limitations of my exposure box/cylinder when used in conjunction with Philmore DATAK Premier Series PCB boards.
Bruce
EDIT: With 60W/120V Sylvania A15 Ceiling Fan Light Bulbs (Incandescent)
Pertaining to the sample you made and sent me, as you decreased the size of trace widths, did you also decrease font size? It appeared like it also decreased.
Bruce
I have just discovered that when using Eagle as a PCB layout editor, better print outs for positive and negative masks can be obtained by first printing the board design to a pdf file and then printing the pdf file, as compared to directly printing the board from Eagle. I am now going to test ps files to see how it compares.
Bruce
In relation to my previous post, it now appears to me that printing the board layout to a PostScript file will yield the best looking mask.
Bruce
I ordered a couple more Philmore DATAK Premier Series PCB boards (1/16" 2oz. double sided FR-4 board with positive acting photo-resist film) and they should be arriving sometime Friday.
In addition to ordering the boards, I have also done some experimenting with the photomasks saved in a different file type, as previously mentioned above. I have chosen to use Encapsulated PostScript (*.eps) as my file type because it produces a very desirable print, and it is a common file type for many print shops, including OfficeMax and Office Depot. OfficeMax claims to have a 2400 DPI laser printer, so instead of ordering a laser photo plot, I am going to attempt to have OfficeMax print my positive mask and see how it turns out. The purpose behind using OfficeMax is to ascertain the quality of the mask because it is cheaper than a laser photo plot, it is readily available to me, and this service or something similar should be readily available for most people.
I would upload the EPS file, but apparently that option is not available.
Bruce
However, while I was there, I got the opportunity to eyeball a Samsung Monochrome Laser Printer, ML-2950 Series, 1200 DPI, for only $109. It appears to have much nicer print than my LaserJet.
Considering that I am just after the hobbyist and enthusiast market for my exposure box, I am contemplating getting one of these printers, and producing the best sample achievable with a 1200 DPI laser printed mask, as compared to ordering a photo plot, but I may do both.
Bruce
http://cms.diodenring.de/de/electronic/mikrocontroller/95-pcb-diy
I really got lucky and found the kid that was proud of his printing machine, It really made all the difference..
Maybe try a different print shop, a smaller shop that just prints and mails stuff.
Of course, a brand new printer for yourself is allways a treat...
Great PCB tutorial by the way..:thumb:
-Tommy
Yea, that is exactly what I needed, but I figured it was a 50-50 shot between knowledgable and ignorant staff
I am now shying away from the Samsung printer due to inadequate documentation and I really want a printer that supports PostScript, due to my previously documented tests. I am now leaning towards a used LaserJet 2200D from eBay. The LaserJet 2200D has a resolution of 1200 X 1200 DPI and it also has auto-duplexing for double-sided printing, which will be very useful for my business printing needs.
Yea, I thought it was pretty good and thought it deserved a link. I especially liked the fact that he covered solder masking.
Bruce
Additionally, a permanent marker can always be used for touching up artwork.
Even with a LaserJet 2200D, I still don't know how it will compare to the mask that you sent me, however for the sake of comparison, with DPIs being on the same level, I want to see how the LaserJet 2200D will compare to your output. I think that eventually I will just use 10/10 or larger traces for my demonstration samples, because I don't think my exposure box or the LaserJet 2200D should have any problems with traces this size in combination with DATAK boards.
If the LaserJet 2200D fails to output an equivalent or better board than the sample that you made, I will then order a photo plot to see if it is even possible with my exposure box in combination with DATAK boards.
At this point, I am still unaware of the limitations of the combination of these two, and I really need to know the limitations and it's full potential for making quality boards.
Bruce
I just purchased a LaserJet 2200D that has a JetDirect network card, an extra 250 sheet paper tray for a total of 500 sheets, a partially filled toner cartridge, an additional 16 MB of memory has been added to the 8 MB stock memory for a total of 24 MB, and a 14 day money back warranty. YIPPEE
Hopefully it will not be a waste of time and money, and hopefully it output a much better photo mask.
If anyone is interested, here is a link. http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150778647640
Bruce