The GA looks interesting but it looks like it's targeted for hard core Forth users only. The good news you can build your own board for about $60 and change.
I wish Moore would have brought the F21 that he and Jeff Fox developed almost two decades ago instead of this odd ball though. The F21 was years ahead of anything out there in the microcontroller world.
The native language of the chip is forth, so its targeted at WORKSTATION users and other processing intensive applications. Like Sun workstation, Apple computers, military satelites, etc.
The forth machine language just makes it faster and easier to get the low level stuff tested and running. The final application uses whatever tools are appropriate.
If you don't win a green-arrays part you can build you own using propforth. This is not as powerful but is much cheaper and allows N-cores as a single system. Of course the software for multiprocessing still lags the hardware.
The native language of the chip is forth, so its targeted at WORKSTATION users and other processing intensive applications. Like Sun workstation, ....
The role of forth in Sun Sparc Workstations was merely to allow booting Unix or some O/S that would run programs written in any language. If the Sun Workstation(s) only supported forth, the internet as we know it would have never happened, and you would still be buying RPN HP calculators via mail order catalogs or some over-priced retailer.
It only have 33 instructions, so are they more like risc machine opcodes?
And it's their compiler that converts it and it's not really running Forth natively?
If so someone could write an assembler for it?
It's a Stack machine, The props byte code interpreter is that to so maybe Spin on this monster?
144 cores, some of them no pin access some only 1 or 2.
What would be the best way to get a killer app for this outsider?
I guess some type of DSP, video digitizer etc.
0 org
2301 , 6745 , AB89 , EFCD ,
DCFE , 98BA , 5476 , 1032 ,
put 008 dup dup or a! 3 for
left b! @+ !b up b! @+ !b next ;
sum 012 dup dup or a! 3 for
left b! @b @ . + dup FFFF and !+
up b! @b @ . + over 2*
-if drop 1 . + dup then drop
FFFF and !+ next ;
sums 025 left a! @p .. / msg / ! put
left a! 63 for @b ! unext sum ;
The role of forth in Sun Sparc Workstations was merely to allow booting Unix or some O/S that would run programs written in any language. If the Sun Workstation(s) only supported forth, the internet as we know it would have never happened, and you would still be buying RPN HP calculators via mail order catalogs or some over-priced retailer.
Forth was used for the I/O drivers. We had a couple of Suns where I once worked; I found out how to get into Forth, and tried it out.
Yeah I know Forth isn't widely used much anymore. It's probably dead for all intents like BCPL.
And as I said earlier, Chuck made a mistake pushing this oddball over some of his earlier creations which were not only innovative but very hacker friendly.
The GA144 in some respects is quite elegant and unique and fits in with Chuck's ultra minimalist programming outlook. Just look at his Color Forth. But it doesn't make it useful for the rest of us.
There's an interesting language in the works which I kind of liked better than Forth. The problem is that they called it '5' which makes it nearly impossible to search for unless you know how.. I even have trouble remembering its name if it's been a while. "Was it 'five', or even anything with the number 5?"
I can't find where I stored the compiler on my computer. It's written in Perl, but try using 'locate' with '5' as argument..
The role of forth in Sun Sparc Workstations was merely to allow booting Unix or some O/S that would run programs written in any language. If the Sun Workstation(s) only supported forth, the internet as we know it would have never happened, and you would still be buying RPN HP calculators via mail order catalogs or some over-priced retailer.
Nobody said Sparcs ONLY supported forth. But somebody pretty smart thought it would be the best idea to to put it on as the boot program. And BUNCHES of folks have told me it was pretty handy to interactively debug stuff on the hardware, below the operating system. But you know more than me, maybe folks were pulling my leg.
It's called OpenFirmWare and was created by a rather bright engineer named Mitch Bradley. He also wrote a really good Forth called Forthmacs for the Atari ST among other micros. As far as Forth on the Sun workstations, it was pretty much a full blown Forth where you could access the hardware if you knew what you were doing. Pretty neat.
Versions of Mitch's software could also be found on Apple's Powermacs
Yeah I know Forth isn't widely used much anymore. It's probably dead for all intents like BCPL.
And as I said earlier, Chuck made a mistake pushing this oddball over some of his earlier creations which were not only innovative but very hacker friendly.
The GA144 in some respects is quite elegant and unique and fits in with Chuck's ultra minimalist programming outlook. Just look at his Color Forth. But it doesn't make it useful for the rest of us.
I don't know if I would declare forth dead again just yet. Skinny ties and dark suits have come and gone a couple times that I've seen. Just because C is in fashion does not mean any other given tool is not useful. John McCarthy may be dead but LISP is still a very good choice for certain things, and forth can still be handy. The green arrays part is just another example where software lags the hardware. And speaking of colorforth, that was the inspiration for propforth's scripted execution; allowing program size up to the size of SD. This, combined with paged assembler and dictionary extension recovery, allow programs of unlimited size with no additional ram.
The green arrays parts will not be so useful without proper software, its true; but we might have a leg up on this from our experiments from propforth.
I shouldn't have said that. Forth isn't dead per-se but it has lost a lot of mind-share much like Pascal and it's successors like Oberon and Delphi. I remember back in the 80's which I consider the high point of Forth popularity and go to Forth conference in San Jose and meet 100+ people and see 20 vendors showing off their wares. Doesn't happen anymore.
Loved CSI Forth, it had the gold standard in terms of documentation and useful examples IMO for the Atari ST and Macs. Forthmacs was also top notch.
Forth I think shines as a architecture and where it will survive. Variations of it seem to be popular in the FPGA community like the Xylin. It's probably the easiest microprocessor architecture to create. Prof Ting at Offete has one for the Lattice XP2 for $25.00 Mind you the FPGA kit is only $49 + shipping. A complete Forth engine for under a hundred USD.
It is stunning to see how far (and for how long) Chuck Moore has been carrying FORTH water. Gotta love a man with a vision!
When you just know you're right, you keep at it. Plodding, uphill evangelism is the lot of many visionaries. The luckier ones get to see their ideas vindicated.
Luis Digital
Posts: 371
Comments
144 times? lol
O.K., something new: they are giving free.
http://www.schmartboard.com/index.asp?page=schmartland_greenarrays
I wish Moore would have brought the F21 that he and Jeff Fox developed almost two decades ago instead of this odd ball though. The F21 was years ahead of anything out there in the microcontroller world.
The forth machine language just makes it faster and easier to get the low level stuff tested and running. The final application uses whatever tools are appropriate.
If you don't win a green-arrays part you can build you own using propforth. This is not as powerful but is much cheaper and allows N-cores as a single system. Of course the software for multiprocessing still lags the hardware.
AFAIK there is no HLL for the GA144, it's Forth all the way, which isn't bad if you're a good Forth coder.
And it's their compiler that converts it and it's not really running Forth natively?
If so someone could write an assembler for it?
It's a Stack machine, The props byte code interpreter is that to so maybe Spin on this monster?
144 cores, some of them no pin access some only 1 or 2.
What would be the best way to get a killer app for this outsider?
I guess some type of DSP, video digitizer etc.
0 org 2301 , 6745 , AB89 , EFCD , DCFE , 98BA , 5476 , 1032 , put 008 dup dup or a! 3 for left b! @+ !b up b! @+ !b next ; sum 012 dup dup or a! 3 for left b! @b @ . + dup FFFF and !+ up b! @b @ . + over 2* -if drop 1 . + dup then drop FFFF and !+ next ; sums 025 left a! @p .. / msg / ! put left a! 63 for @b ! unext sum ;Forth was used for the I/O drivers. We had a couple of Suns where I once worked; I found out how to get into Forth, and tried it out.
And as I said earlier, Chuck made a mistake pushing this oddball over some of his earlier creations which were not only innovative but very hacker friendly.
The GA144 in some respects is quite elegant and unique and fits in with Chuck's ultra minimalist programming outlook. Just look at his Color Forth. But it doesn't make it useful for the rest of us.
I can't find where I stored the compiler on my computer. It's written in Perl, but try using 'locate' with '5' as argument..
-Tor
Nobody said Sparcs ONLY supported forth. But somebody pretty smart thought it would be the best idea to to put it on as the boot program. And BUNCHES of folks have told me it was pretty handy to interactively debug stuff on the hardware, below the operating system. But you know more than me, maybe folks were pulling my leg.
The idea on Moore's chip was to run forth natively, and skip the overhead of intermediate steps.
Anything can be written in forth, and it usually executes almost as fast as assembler, in this case the forh is exactly as fast as assembler
The spin interpreter is sometimes described as a forth application that interprets SPIN. Usually by me, and I have wild imagination.
Versions of Mitch's software could also be found on Apple's Powermacs
http://www.firmworks.com/home.htm#
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Firmware
I don't know if I would declare forth dead again just yet. Skinny ties and dark suits have come and gone a couple times that I've seen. Just because C is in fashion does not mean any other given tool is not useful. John McCarthy may be dead but LISP is still a very good choice for certain things, and forth can still be handy. The green arrays part is just another example where software lags the hardware. And speaking of colorforth, that was the inspiration for propforth's scripted execution; allowing program size up to the size of SD. This, combined with paged assembler and dictionary extension recovery, allow programs of unlimited size with no additional ram.
The green arrays parts will not be so useful without proper software, its true; but we might have a leg up on this from our experiments from propforth.
It is stunning to see how far (and for how long) Chuck Moore has been carrying FORTH water. Gotta love a man with a vision!
It is a cause for joy here in chaos flats, that the preliminary silicon of his latest creation has turned out so well. What a great adventure!
Loved CSI Forth, it had the gold standard in terms of documentation and useful examples IMO for the Atari ST and Macs. Forthmacs was also top notch.
Forth I think shines as a architecture and where it will survive. Variations of it seem to be popular in the FPGA community like the Xylin. It's probably the easiest microprocessor architecture to create. Prof Ting at Offete has one for the Lattice XP2 for $25.00 Mind you the FPGA kit is only $49 + shipping. A complete Forth engine for under a hundred USD.
-Phil