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Is the C3 EOL ??? — Parallax Forums

Is the C3 EOL ???

RsadeikaRsadeika Posts: 3,837
edited 2011-10-20 14:54 in Propeller 1
Is the C3 going to be discontinued? The latest Parallax catalog does not list the C3, and the Parallax store does not show when the, out of stock C3, will be replenished. At the new price level, maybe EOL is not such a bad thing, just would like to know for sure.

Ray

Comments

  • prof_brainoprof_braino Posts: 4,313
    edited 2011-10-19 07:49
    That would be a bummer. I haven't even gotten around to playing with mine yet. The software is just catching up to the hardware. Stupid day job!
  • mindrobotsmindrobots Posts: 6,506
    edited 2011-10-19 08:08
    prof_braino wrote: »
    Stupid day job!

    +1 (or maybe +2!)

    I haven't even bought mine yet......hey, Yeah, that's it, they're EOL, if anyone wants to unload one cheap because of that.......
  • blittledblittled Posts: 681
    edited 2011-10-19 09:19
    Maybe Andre will sell them through his site www.xgamestation.com. That site looks like it hasn't been updated recently. They still have the Chameleons (which are 2+ years old) as a new item.
  • trodosstrodoss Posts: 577
    edited 2011-10-19 09:34
    @Rsadeika,

    The C3 Full Kit is still available:
    http://www.parallax.com/Store/Microcontrollers/PropellerDevelopmentBoards/tabid/514/CategoryID/73/List/0/SortField/0/Level/a/ProductID/724/Default.aspx

    I would say that until there is a formal announcement, assume that "out of stock" is simply that.
  • Jen J.Jen J. Posts: 649
    edited 2011-10-19 09:42
    No need to panic. The C3 is still available. It did not make it to the 2011 catalog as the product was not launched prior to wrap. Ahhh the magic of print!
  • WBA ConsultingWBA Consulting Posts: 2,935
    edited 2011-10-19 09:45
    The C3 was released after the printing of the latest catalogs and that is why it isn't there. I don't see any reason to EOL the C3 as it is a unique product that is selling well.
  • RsadeikaRsadeika Posts: 3,837
    edited 2011-10-19 10:05
    That answers that. Now, is the price ever going to go back down?

    Ray
  • jazzedjazzed Posts: 11,803
    edited 2011-10-19 10:09
    WBA Consulting wrote: »
    I don't see any reason to EOL the C3 as it is a unique product that is selling well.
    Especially after seeing that chainsaw again :) Help!

    C3 is a key development platform.

    IMHO it has the best feature set of all Parallax boards.
    I would have done some things differently, but it's fine as is.
  • Martin_HMartin_H Posts: 4,051
    edited 2011-10-19 10:19
    Jen J's implements of destruction have been getting progressively more destructive. But what's next after a chain saw?
  • Ken GraceyKen Gracey Posts: 7,401
    edited 2011-10-19 10:29
    Hey there,

    We currently have 37 C3 boards in stock (#32209). They were not showing up on the web as "available" because they were being allocated to C3 Full Kits (#32205). We removed the allocation (feel like you're inside Parallax yet with our lingo?) and in a few minutes #32209 will show up as being in stock at http://www.parallax.com/StoreSearchResults/tabid/768/txtSearch/C3/List/0/SortField/4/ProductID/721/Default.aspx. There are no plans to discontinue this product, so there is no need to worry. It's a core development system.

    But if you want to worry like I do, we can collectively worry about the price going up if we can't figure out a way of reducing production costs. This is an expensive board to build, especially the way we're doing it.

    Can you keep a secret? Take a look at our costs and retail on this product:

    #32205 Propeller C3 Full Kit (cost 104.0560 and retails at 159.99)
    #32209 Propeller C3 Board (cost 89.7381 and retails at 129.99)

    We must have gone berserk to post our costs in public, right? No - many of you are product developers and you could reverse-engineer the costs on your own quite easily. At these margins we can forget ever recovering our non-recurring engineering costs. It's also important to understand that our average selling price is more like 75% of the retail price, so there is literally no profit in this product.

    Thankfully our customers (thank you!) have kept our focus on other products and we've been too busy to give the C3 the attention it presently needs for cost reduction or price increase. I'll wait until the next build is finished to see if our ACE selective solder can lower our production costs. In the meantime, keep buying them and let's hope the price stays off our internal radar for a bit longer, or at least until our next fabrication run.

    Sincerely,

    Ken Gracey
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2011-10-19 11:01
    One obvious way to reduce the cost of the C3 is to make it slightly larger to accommodate the mounting holes within a rectangular board outline. Those silly mounting hole tabs must cause all kinds of trouble for manufacturing.

    -Phil
  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2011-10-19 11:06
    I know intellectually that this business is brutal, but it's humbling to see just how brutal it is. I'm pleased but astounded at how you can continue to develop really nice (and sometimes really innovative - like the Props) products with these margins.
  • WBA ConsultingWBA Consulting Posts: 2,935
    edited 2011-10-19 12:47
    @Ken: Your ACE KISS-102 can make quick work of that C3. If the C3 is not panelized, you will want a jig to hold it properly in the conveyor and you can probably get away with squeezing at least 4 C3 boards into the working area so that one machine cycle will yield 4 assemblies. One of my engineers is actually working on procuring some fixturing for ours from Ascentec Engineering. I can shoot you our contact if you would like or will shoot you details of what we end up with for fixtures.
  • PublisonPublison Posts: 12,366
    edited 2011-10-19 13:13
    Gosh, every time a product is out of stock we should consider it EOL? I don't think so.

    Parallax is very good about planning and informing the public wwwwaaayyy ahead of time.

    Want one? Digikey has 5 in stock:

    http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/32209/32209PAR-ND/2696574

    But now that Ken has pull the magical strings, order 2 from Parallax. :)
  • max72max72 Posts: 1,155
    edited 2011-10-19 14:09
    Ken,
    would a semi assembled board be an option and offer a saving?
    This is not exactly the same, but Xbee adapter boards are not assembled. C3 could be shipped with SMD parts soldered, and TH in a DIY kit.
    I understand you are offering a top notch board and it would look "cheap", moreover you would have to assemble the DIY kit and have yet another part number to handle, but it would require little effort on the user side.
    Massimo
  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 18,069
    edited 2011-10-19 15:28
    Often hobbyists don't understand company overheads and ROI (return on investment).

    Ken, as you guessed, many of us could work out your production costs but then again, why would we bother? I can estimate pretty accurately (if I wanted to), and besides, you let us in anyway. hehey.

    Our job is to help promote the prop to get your volumes up so you can at least get some ROI back.
  • RaymanRayman Posts: 14,865
    edited 2011-10-19 16:29
    I just got a C3 a couple weeks ago. One nice thing about it is that it can run Catalina in "LARGE" mode right out of the box.
    With SD and VGA and keyboard (perfect for the Super Star Trek example).
    I kinda like the tabs too. The need to switch between the different SPI things and VGA things is a little too complex for my taste,
    but Ross figured it out nicely for Catalia.

    The other nice things is that they have ported over most of the Hydra games to run on it...
  • localrogerlocalroger Posts: 3,452
    edited 2011-10-19 19:29
    I got one of the early C3's mainly to have a platform for running large mode Catalina just in case. I got pulled and tugged and yanked hither and thither on other projects and never even tried Catalina on it yet (though I did figure out how to add a real serial port neatly) and it still mostly sits there just in case, and I like having it there just in case because I know Catalina will support it if I ever need to dive in.

    But I did totally rip off the design of the acrylic case for a project of my own. BTW, that flouroacrylic they have now that beams light out the edges of the material makes a case like the C3's look totally rad.
  • Bill HenningBill Henning Posts: 6,445
    edited 2011-10-20 09:13
    Hi Ken,

    I never could figure out how you could initially afford to sell them for $79 and not lose your shirt on them... your numbers below make sense; so you get to keep your shirt :)

    Regards,

    Bill
    Ken Gracey wrote: »
    Hey there,

    We currently have 37 C3 boards in stock (#32209). They were not showing up on the web as "available" because they were being allocated to C3 Full Kits (#32205). We removed the allocation (feel like you're inside Parallax yet with our lingo?) and in a few minutes #32209 will show up as being in stock at http://www.parallax.com/StoreSearchResults/tabid/768/txtSearch/C3/List/0/SortField/4/ProductID/721/Default.aspx. There are no plans to discontinue this product, so there is no need to worry. It's a core development system.

    But if you want to worry like I do, we can collectively worry about the price going up if we can't figure out a way of reducing production costs. This is an expensive board to build, especially the way we're doing it.

    Can you keep a secret? Take a look at our costs and retail on this product:

    #32205 Propeller C3 Full Kit (cost 104.0560 and retails at 159.99)
    #32209 Propeller C3 Board (cost 89.7381 and retails at 129.99)

    We must have gone berserk to post our costs in public, right? No - many of you are product developers and you could reverse-engineer the costs on your own quite easily. At these margins we can forget ever recovering our non-recurring engineering costs. It's also important to understand that our average selling price is more like 75% of the retail price, so there is literally no profit in this product.

    Thankfully our customers (thank you!) have kept our focus on other products and we've been too busy to give the C3 the attention it presently needs for cost reduction or price increase. I'll wait until the next build is finished to see if our ACE selective solder can lower our production costs. In the meantime, keep buying them and let's hope the price stays off our internal radar for a bit longer, or at least until our next fabrication run.

    Sincerely,

    Ken Gracey
  • sidecar-racersidecar-racer Posts: 82
    edited 2011-10-20 14:54
    That is good news to hear, Ken. I've been working on a project (vehicle telemetry) based around the C3. Never know where it may go. Be there next Thursday.
    Rick & Nida Murray
    RGM Enginering
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