Furthermore, how many people do you think use their phone while actually in the loo?
Waaayyyy too many.......I see that at work and am just amazed. I certainly don't want to be on the other end of that conversation...oh, yeah, they're not just surfing or playing a game, they're actively talking......EEEWWWW!!!
...of course, then they just walk out while still talking because you really wouldn't expect someone to stop talking to wash hands!
I'm never asking to borrow anybody's phone....nope, no way.......
Washing your hands after using the toilet is a great idea.
Then washing your hands after using the bathroom sink is a good idea, too.
Then washing your hands after opening the toilet room door to leave the bathroom is a good idea also.
Then be sure not to touch your belt or pants or anything else you might have touched on your person while taking care of yourself while in the stall.
And if you have children or are anywhere within 100 miles of a child without a full-body gamma-ray sterilizer, well.....
Problem is, we are animals that need bacteria to function properly. And we live on a planet swarming with microbes. There is little you can do to totally escape those little critters, and washing is just a way of diluting them so our immune systems don't get overwhelmed. It seems like whenever the news media needs a story, this "guess where I found bacteria" news flash is always there. What part of our civilization or anatomy has the news corps not yet swabbed?
Even after the sun blows up, bacteria will be here - at least for a couple more billion years. Some species have been found living miles deep underground. Eating acids and solid rock.
Since those in the UK are exposed to more germs on a frequent basis, this would mean they are more healthy and more resistant to disease than someone who lives in a sterile germ free environment.
For example people who live on farms and drink raw milk have no problem drinking it, but if someone from the city (who only has had Pasteurized milk) drinks the same milk, they will get sick.
Won't you ardent bacteriophiles agree that there could be too much of a bad thing?
I don't get the flu shot, I dislike hand-shaking, and Purell is practically a God-send.
[Scrub those melons, kids, or don't.]
Yes, too much of a bad thing could be bad. And is.
But you can Purell all you want and I'm sure I could find an e coli lurking somewhere on your fingertips.
Also, don't over do it with the washing and Purelling - too much of that destroys the protective lipids on your skin, and without those lipids, your skin will start to crack, exposing lots of juicy nutrients to the world, turning your hands into a microscopic maze of bacterial highways and byways. And if you kill off all the bacteria, then it's fungal time. And that can be even worse.
As for scrubbing melons, I prefer washing them gently when they are available. And using various oils can be great for that while keeping the lipids intact.
Won't you ardent bacteriophiles agree that there could be too much of a bad thing?
I would advise you to consult your doctor. For *some* people, it might be a good idea to avoid germs. For example if you are taking medication which reduces your stomach acid (ulcers, etc.). The stomach acid is a natural defense to germs in food. And people are different...
However for normal healthy people, it is pay now or pay later with "interest"! If a person is exposed to germs when they are not sick and in good shape, then they might get a little sick. The body then builds up immunity to those germs.
But if they are not exposed to germs, then get a serious illness, and THEN are also exposed to other regular germs, then that could greatly complicate their illness. You are then sick with two things!
Also it can be a mental illness to be excessively afraid of germs (Mysophobia). However, I've noticed a LOT of people lately wiping off shopping cart handles in the stores. I don't watch TV (read books instead), so I assume there has been something on TV which is making people afraid of germs? If that is the case, then I suppose this new found "germ phobia" might be considered more normal?
As for myself, if I drop food on the floor, I pick it up and eat it. I have done this all my life. My dog *moves* her food from a clean plate to the floor, then proceeds to eat it. Neither of us gets sick from eating this way.
I do however follow safe food handling procedures when cooking. There are nasty food born diseases which are NOT good to be exposed to.
This is hardly news. I have seen the same things written about corded phones, door knobs, faucet levers, counter tops, etc., etc., for the last 20 - 30 years. Anything people come in contact with will be contaminated with bacteria. Some exposure to bacteria is good and necessary for a healthy immune system, but as with most things it can be taken too far.
Next time your doctor offers an antibiotic for a cold, or your dentist suggests you try a different "free sample" of a completely new kind of mouth wash, consider these guys! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_microbiome
We're starting to see an increase of super bugs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_bug_(bacteria) As the theory goes, the mis-use of antibiotics is killing off the easy to kill bacteria, decreasing competition and selecting the really bad ones. I've heard doctors getting upset at the use of "hopital grade" cleansers used around the home as they decrease the effectiveness of the hospital ones. If your a germaphobe you may want to stay well away from hospitals.
Sure you want to keep good basic hygiene, but don't stress about it unless you already have a compromised imune system or some condition where you have medical advise to be extra vigilent.
I stay away from doctors and hospitals. I've never had a doctor prescribe me an antibiotic in absence of a negative "culture" result. The dentist didn't have a test result, but I guess he knew an infection when he saw one.
Everyone ought to stay away from the hospital. The longer one is in the hospital... the longer he'll be in the hospital.
I know that ordinary people can, and do, travel to our neighbour to the south (a/k/a Mexico) to buy antibiotics, all legally sold over the counter without prescription, large quantities cheaply, and self-prescribe same for themselves and their children. They and those who don't complete the course of their treatments (take ALL of their pills) are the present danger in this regard.
I recall a David Spade commercial for 1-800-COLLECT where he was looking at a pay phone handset, raised his eyebrows, and quipped, "You might want to get a pair of salad tongs."
Maybe a cell-phone ought to be considered to be among the set known as personal items. (Icky-poo, autoclave that first!)
bill190 &/or E.A.
If you guys bring cookies to UPEx, please leave a copy of this thread with them.
-- PJ --
I'll do a little "reading between the lines" here and guess that because I might do something like eating food off the ground, then you might think that any food I might bring to a public meeting would not be safe to eat?
Is that what you might be thinking?
Actually quite the opposite is the reality of the situation. I have read about germs, bacteria, etc. and ALSO I have read about home made food, which was brought to public gatherings, and people became sick from eating it.
I know about bacteria which is not harmful, about bacteria which is good for you (like in yogurt), and also know about very dangerous bacteria / safe food handling practices.
So what food would I bring to a public gathering for other people to eat? Actually I would buy fresh store bought food, or food from a fast food or other restaurant. Why? That is because my kitchen at home is not approved by the health department to prepare food for public consumption. Whereas restaurants do have such kitchens.
Also if it was a food which required refrigeration or to be kept hot for safety, I would also bring an ice chest and ice or a hot plate. Why? Because I know that some food, which is not kept at the proper temperature, can make people sick.
FYI - At home I have temperature gauges for the refrigerator / freezer, oven, and have a temperature probe to measure the internal temperature of foods I cook. Actually many home refrigerators are too warm and many home ovens do not heat to the temperature set on the dial (cooler or warmer).
I stay away from doctors and hospitals. I've never had a doctor prescribe me an antibiotic in absence of a negative "culture" result. The dentist didn't have a test result, but I guess he knew an infection when he saw one.
Everyone ought to stay away from the hospital. The longer one is in the hospital... the longer he'll be in the hospital.
I know that ordinary people can, and do, travel to our neighbour to the south (a/k/a Mexico) to buy antibiotics, all legally sold over the counter without prescription, large quantities cheaply, and self-prescribe same for themselves and their children. They and those who don't complete the course of their treatments (take ALL of their pills) are the present danger in this regard.
I recall a David Spade commercial for 1-800-COLLECT where he was looking at a pay phone handset, raised his eyebrows, and quipped, "You might want to get a pair of salad tongs."
Maybe a cell-phone ought to be considered to be among the set known as personal items. (Icky-poo, autoclave that first!)
OMG!!!! What about me? I spend 8 hours a day 5 days a week in a hospital, sometimes 2 or 3 regional hospitals, plus our outlying clinics on occasion!!!! Have even been a guest at the big one I spend most of my time in. Wonder what my odds are of getting a bad one, or perhaps I will develop some immunities myself.......
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Someones gotta keep the imaging systems running!!!!
I'll do a little "reading between the lines" here and guess that because I might do something like eating food off the ground, then you might think that any food I might bring to a public meeting would not be safe to eat?
Is that what you might be thinking?
Actually quite the opposite is the reality of the situation. I have read about germs, bacteria, etc. and ALSO I have read about home made food, which was brought to public gatherings, and people became sick from eating it.
I know about bacteria which is not harmful, about bacteria which is good for you (like in yogurt), and also know about very dangerous bacteria / safe food handling practices.
So what food would I bring to a public gathering for other people to eat? Actually I would buy fresh store bought food, or food from a fast food or other restaurant. Why? That is because my kitchen at home is not approved by the health department to prepare food for public consumption. Whereas restaurants do have such kitchens.
Also if it was a food which required refrigeration or to be kept hot for safety, I would also bring an ice chest and ice or a hot plate. Why? Because I know that some food, which is not kept at the proper temperature, can make people sick.
FYI - At home I have temperature gauges for the refrigerator / freezer, oven, and have a temperature probe to measure the internal temperature of foods I cook. Actually many home refrigerators are too warm and many home ovens do not heat to the temperature set on the dial (cooler or warmer).
This sounds like the justification for a new prop product, the multi station central temp monitoring system for the home kitchen with sensors for the freezer, fridge, meat keeper, oven and maybe a plugin temp probe. Hey, could sell the idea to Wolf or even SubZero........
I'll do a little "reading between the lines" here and guess that because I might do something like eating food off the ground, then you might think that any food I might bring to a public meeting would not be safe to eat?
I figure had they "hit the floor", as your practice, you'd be nonplussed. Let the chips fall where they may. What more needs to be said? It's not me, it's you.
frank,
I can't refer you to any specific studies (I could round some up, but I won't bother.)
Here's a concept, it's simple, try and stay with me: it's about time and exposure - when exposure is increased, risk is concomitantly increased [exposure entails risk, more exposure = more risk]. The longer one is in the hospital, as a patient (as was the only sensible implication in #17), the more likely the occurence of a "mistake".
Phlebotomists stick themselves with contaminated needles more than the general population (it's undeniable) and patients repeatedly subject to bloodwork are more likely to be stuck with a contaminated needle. Exposure and risk. And the same goes for all of the creepy-crawlies they have there, too. What're the odds of my getting "staph" at home? Practically Nil. Is that hard to understand?
I wouldn't be surprised if you have some boring gore stories of the equipment you work on, but I suspect you've been briefed on protocols, procedures, and precautions same.
Howbeit, if you end up having lunch over at bill190's pad... don't come running to me.
bill190,
I figure had they "hit the floor", as your practice, you'd be nonplussed. Let the chips fall where they may. What more needs to be said? It's not me, it's you.
frank,
I can't refer you to any specific studies (I could round some up, but I won't bother.)
Here's a concept, it's simple, try and stay with me: it's about time and exposure - when exposure is increased, risk is concomitantly increased [exposure entails risk, more exposure = more risk]. The longer one is in the hospital, as a patient (as was the only sensible implication in #17), the more likely the occurence of a "mistake".
Phlebotomists stick themselves with contaminated needles more than the general population (it's undeniable) and patients repeatedly subject to bloodwork are more likely to be stuck with a contaminated needle. Exposure and risk. And the same goes for all of the creepy-crawlies they have there, too. What're the odds of my getting "staph" at home? Practically Nil. Is that hard to understand?
I wouldn't be surprised if you have some boring gore stories of the equipment you work on, but I suspect you've been briefed on protocols, procedures, and precautions same.
Howbeit, if you end up having lunch over at bill190's pad... don't come running to me.
PJ,
Just havin a bit of humor.....
As to the accidental stick, it is an occupational hazard. To the staff, rarely the patient. They are stuck deliberately. With always a clean needle. The current practices and procedures pretty much eliminate the possibility of a patient getting an accidental stick. Much of the possibility of medical staff getting stuck has been removed with the (most places) requirement to use safety engineered sharps. That does not always protect the environmental staff however from the occasional mis-disposed of sharp or mislaid sharp when someone gets into to big of a hurry or gets careless.
Exposure to all the goodies I agree with. Limit the stay as much as possible. As a patient, that person probably has compromised immunities depending on what they are in for. but again, it is all about risk vs. benefit. In all of medicine. All of it.
I'll bet its those little so-and-so's who keep making all those "premium service" calls from my mobile phone. Those dirtly little buggers are costing me a fortune!
I'll bet its those little so-and-so's who keep making all those "premium service" calls from my mobile phone. Those dirtly little buggers are costing me a fortune!
Ross.
Sneak in an order for a tub of SaniWipes. Some of those can eat the lens off of an ultrasound probe. Oh, it might take the finish with them? No problem, little buggers will still be gone...... mostly.......
PJAllen
BannedPosts: 5,065
Comments
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-15284501
Waaayyyy too many.......I see that at work and am just amazed. I certainly don't want to be on the other end of that conversation...oh, yeah, they're not just surfing or playing a game, they're actively talking......EEEWWWW!!!
...of course, then they just walk out while still talking because you really wouldn't expect someone to stop talking to wash hands!
I'm never asking to borrow anybody's phone....nope, no way.......
...At least not in UK!
Then again, maybe it's actually a GOOD idea
http://articles.cnn.com/2006-04-05/health/cohen.allergies_1_fewer-allergies-germs-sick-kids?_s=PM:HEALTH
http://www.livescience.com/10601-germs-good.html
Just the same, I'm going to keep to the lab, like I always do.
Then washing your hands after using the bathroom sink is a good idea, too.
Then washing your hands after opening the toilet room door to leave the bathroom is a good idea also.
Then be sure not to touch your belt or pants or anything else you might have touched on your person while taking care of yourself while in the stall.
And if you have children or are anywhere within 100 miles of a child without a full-body gamma-ray sterilizer, well.....
Problem is, we are animals that need bacteria to function properly. And we live on a planet swarming with microbes. There is little you can do to totally escape those little critters, and washing is just a way of diluting them so our immune systems don't get overwhelmed. It seems like whenever the news media needs a story, this "guess where I found bacteria" news flash is always there. What part of our civilization or anatomy has the news corps not yet swabbed?
Even after the sun blows up, bacteria will be here - at least for a couple more billion years. Some species have been found living miles deep underground. Eating acids and solid rock.
Welcome to planet earth.
For example people who live on farms and drink raw milk have no problem drinking it, but if someone from the city (who only has had Pasteurized milk) drinks the same milk, they will get sick.
I don't get the flu shot, I dislike hand-shaking, and Purell is practically a God-send.
[Scrub those melons, kids, or don't.]
Yes, too much of a bad thing could be bad. And is.
But you can Purell all you want and I'm sure I could find an e coli lurking somewhere on your fingertips.
Also, don't over do it with the washing and Purelling - too much of that destroys the protective lipids on your skin, and without those lipids, your skin will start to crack, exposing lots of juicy nutrients to the world, turning your hands into a microscopic maze of bacterial highways and byways. And if you kill off all the bacteria, then it's fungal time. And that can be even worse.
As for scrubbing melons, I prefer washing them gently when they are available. And using various oils can be great for that while keeping the lipids intact.
I would advise you to consult your doctor. For *some* people, it might be a good idea to avoid germs. For example if you are taking medication which reduces your stomach acid (ulcers, etc.). The stomach acid is a natural defense to germs in food. And people are different...
However for normal healthy people, it is pay now or pay later with "interest"! If a person is exposed to germs when they are not sick and in good shape, then they might get a little sick. The body then builds up immunity to those germs.
But if they are not exposed to germs, then get a serious illness, and THEN are also exposed to other regular germs, then that could greatly complicate their illness. You are then sick with two things!
Also it can be a mental illness to be excessively afraid of germs (Mysophobia). However, I've noticed a LOT of people lately wiping off shopping cart handles in the stores. I don't watch TV (read books instead), so I assume there has been something on TV which is making people afraid of germs? If that is the case, then I suppose this new found "germ phobia" might be considered more normal?
As for myself, if I drop food on the floor, I pick it up and eat it. I have done this all my life. My dog *moves* her food from a clean plate to the floor, then proceeds to eat it. Neither of us gets sick from eating this way.
I do however follow safe food handling procedures when cooking. There are nasty food born diseases which are NOT good to be exposed to.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mysophobia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immunity_(medical)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Pasteur
http://www.fsis.usda.gov/fact_sheets/Basics_for_Handling_Food_Safely/index.asp
I tried that, too, but then my dogs kept fighting me over the tater tots.
Hey, and if you ever get dysentery, consider how the Germans found this effective cure:
http://www.rense.com/general4/bac.htm
BTW, you can still buy it even today.
Yummy.
If you guys bring cookies to UPEx, please leave a copy of this thread with them.
Thanks.
-- PJ --
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080603085914.htm
Next time your doctor offers an antibiotic for a cold, or your dentist suggests you try a different "free sample" of a completely new kind of mouth wash, consider these guys!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_microbiome
We're starting to see an increase of super bugs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_bug_(bacteria) As the theory goes, the mis-use of antibiotics is killing off the easy to kill bacteria, decreasing competition and selecting the really bad ones. I've heard doctors getting upset at the use of "hopital grade" cleansers used around the home as they decrease the effectiveness of the hospital ones. If your a germaphobe you may want to stay well away from hospitals.
Sure you want to keep good basic hygiene, but don't stress about it unless you already have a compromised imune system or some condition where you have medical advise to be extra vigilent.
Everyone ought to stay away from the hospital. The longer one is in the hospital... the longer he'll be in the hospital.
I know that ordinary people can, and do, travel to our neighbour to the south (a/k/a Mexico) to buy antibiotics, all legally sold over the counter without prescription, large quantities cheaply, and self-prescribe same for themselves and their children. They and those who don't complete the course of their treatments (take ALL of their pills) are the present danger in this regard.
I recall a David Spade commercial for 1-800-COLLECT where he was looking at a pay phone handset, raised his eyebrows, and quipped, "You might want to get a pair of salad tongs."
Maybe a cell-phone ought to be considered to be among the set known as personal items. (Icky-poo, autoclave that first!)
I'll do a little "reading between the lines" here and guess that because I might do something like eating food off the ground, then you might think that any food I might bring to a public meeting would not be safe to eat?
Is that what you might be thinking?
Actually quite the opposite is the reality of the situation. I have read about germs, bacteria, etc. and ALSO I have read about home made food, which was brought to public gatherings, and people became sick from eating it.
I know about bacteria which is not harmful, about bacteria which is good for you (like in yogurt), and also know about very dangerous bacteria / safe food handling practices.
So what food would I bring to a public gathering for other people to eat? Actually I would buy fresh store bought food, or food from a fast food or other restaurant. Why? That is because my kitchen at home is not approved by the health department to prepare food for public consumption. Whereas restaurants do have such kitchens.
Also if it was a food which required refrigeration or to be kept hot for safety, I would also bring an ice chest and ice or a hot plate. Why? Because I know that some food, which is not kept at the proper temperature, can make people sick.
Food Safety for Public Gatherings...
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/successfulfamily/Nutrition%20&%20Wellness/foodsfty.htm
FYI - At home I have temperature gauges for the refrigerator / freezer, oven, and have a temperature probe to measure the internal temperature of foods I cook. Actually many home refrigerators are too warm and many home ovens do not heat to the temperature set on the dial (cooler or warmer).
OMG!!!! What about me? I spend 8 hours a day 5 days a week in a hospital, sometimes 2 or 3 regional hospitals, plus our outlying clinics on occasion!!!! Have even been a guest at the big one I spend most of my time in. Wonder what my odds are of getting a bad one, or perhaps I will develop some immunities myself.......
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Someones gotta keep the imaging systems running!!!!
Frank
This sounds like the justification for a new prop product, the multi station central temp monitoring system for the home kitchen with sensors for the freezer, fridge, meat keeper, oven and maybe a plugin temp probe. Hey, could sell the idea to Wolf or even SubZero........
HHHHMMMMMMM..........
FF
frank,
I can't refer you to any specific studies (I could round some up, but I won't bother.)
Here's a concept, it's simple, try and stay with me: it's about time and exposure - when exposure is increased, risk is concomitantly increased [exposure entails risk, more exposure = more risk]. The longer one is in the hospital, as a patient (as was the only sensible implication in #17), the more likely the occurence of a "mistake".
Phlebotomists stick themselves with contaminated needles more than the general population (it's undeniable) and patients repeatedly subject to bloodwork are more likely to be stuck with a contaminated needle. Exposure and risk. And the same goes for all of the creepy-crawlies they have there, too. What're the odds of my getting "staph" at home? Practically Nil. Is that hard to understand?
I wouldn't be surprised if you have some boring gore stories of the equipment you work on, but I suspect you've been briefed on protocols, procedures, and precautions same.
Howbeit, if you end up having lunch over at bill190's pad... don't come running to me.
PJ,
Just havin a bit of humor.....
As to the accidental stick, it is an occupational hazard. To the staff, rarely the patient. They are stuck deliberately. With always a clean needle. The current practices and procedures pretty much eliminate the possibility of a patient getting an accidental stick. Much of the possibility of medical staff getting stuck has been removed with the (most places) requirement to use safety engineered sharps. That does not always protect the environmental staff however from the occasional mis-disposed of sharp or mislaid sharp when someone gets into to big of a hurry or gets careless.
Exposure to all the goodies I agree with. Limit the stay as much as possible. As a patient, that person probably has compromised immunities depending on what they are in for. but again, it is all about risk vs. benefit. In all of medicine. All of it.
Frank
Ross.
Sneak in an order for a tub of SaniWipes. Some of those can eat the lens off of an ultrasound probe. Oh, it might take the finish with them? No problem, little buggers will still be gone...... mostly.......
Frank