aI think that two OBEXs is a big mistake. We already have so many platforms and languages for the prop 1 that it is an obstacle for newbies as compared to a more unified IDE approach like Arduino.
I've seen these anime/video sites with thousands of items; they have really robust search capabilities with nice single page search pages with some checkboxes on the search and browse screens. We could default to MIT license only searches, but allow checking a box to permit searching/browsing for other types of licenses. We could also do the same thing for Prop1/2 objects or C vs SPIN or whatever.
Just my 2 cents.
PS To those of you who wrote languages for the prop - many of them are very cool - I'm speaking of confusion for new prop users.
Ken,
I would prefer checkbox that would "Show non-MIT licensed object". Rather than a completely different OBEX.
My delima is that I don't want a company using my code to make money with somthing that I have ethical issues with (things that kill people for instance).
How about 3 or 4 "standard" type licenses then a "OTHER" category where the end user would have to read and understand the unique license for that object.
Not to derail but could somebody at Parallax PLEASE fix the bug that prevents me from resetting my Obex password, or reset it for me and PM the new password? I have had several projects, including the 18x43 ROM font VGA driver, that I would love to upload but I haven't been able to log in since last year, and nobody ever replies to my emails or comments. I showed the error to Matt IIRC at UPEW but it was late on Sunday and there was nobody in the building who could look into it.
Not to derail but could somebody at Parallax PLEASE fix the bug that prevents me from resetting my Obex password, or reset it for me and PM the new password? I have had several projects, including the 18x43 ROM font VGA driver, that I would love to upload but I haven't been able to log in since last year, and nobody ever replies to my emails or comments. I showed the error to Matt IIRC at UPEW but it was late on Sunday and there was nobody in the building who could look into it.
Yes, I have the same problem. I cannot login or reset my password either.
I thought it was just me...
Instead of writing a software licensing for people that will misuse the license for their own gain anyway, Why
not write Papers on subjects similar to how SAE does. The software authors are the experts, let them write a
paper on the details of a project they have already completed. They can be hired as a consultant to tailor fit
a program to the employers needs.
Hobbyist and companies benefit by having more access to material published about their own specific needs
with Parallax products. The authors would get paid for their papers, and set terms for licensing if they are hired
as a consultant. Hobbyist would be able to purchase relevant Papers instead of books, that include projects
they may not interested in.
Parallax could charge a membership fee, non members would pay an increased cost. Members would
receive a discount on purchasing papers. The authors would receive a royalty from Parallax for the
sale of their Paper.
I thought a second OBEX should be different. I find myself collecting good information from intelligent
authors on these forums, but it never seems to be the whole story. But with Papers for sale, they can
add more detail, get paid for it, and Parallax doesn't need to wait for a trickle of books published about
their products.
Perhaps these papers would help sell the right Propeller for the right job, rather than the newer, must
be better mentality.
PS; I know this isn't the normal way of doing things, But if Phil Pilgrim wrote a Paper on mosfets, or
better yet, 3 phase motor control with the Propeller. I would gladly pay a $20.00 membership, and
$10.00 for his paper.
I can see where Bean is comig form too.
'
My policy in my life for my ART like photos Ect is copy for no $$$ what do I care .
but making prints Off my work and selling them as a profit . Well Ok that is not cool .prepare for a lawyer ...
as for OBEX code and war and bombs Ect .
the SW is only half of the war mine . the HW is the other part .
and anyone whom is makeing a device like that is not going to care what a EULA or a TOS or a license is going to say .
I like the OBEX how it is BUT the site needs more love ...
I had a chat with Ken a few days ago and I had told him a Modded Wiki code is GNU . its easy to use .
and all WE do is edit the wiki with a .ZIP of code .. in lue of a .PNG or JPG on the page of the object .
Its COTS its turnkry and simple ........
Objects are not any larger then a good rez JPEG . eg 5 Mb or so .
Whatever Parallax decides to do, I believe all code, objects, and documentation should remain on a server that they have full control over. It is a lifeline of their business, and I believe they should keep it in house.
The main purpose for an OBEX2 is so that OBEX1 can remain a pure MIT license repository. OBEX1 should contain only original work that is stamped with the MIT license text, or code that was derived from an MIT-licensed source. There is a tremendous amount of software posted on the internet under other licenses, such as creative commons, GPL, LGPL, BSD, etc. Software that contains these other licenses, or that is derived from software with other licenses cannot be posted to OBEX1.
I think Ken is proposing that the Prop community support a separate repository that can contain non-MIT licensed code. There has not been an urgent need for this in the past because most of the code in the OBEX is written in Spin and PASM, and represents original work. However, once the GCC tools become available there will most likely be more C code ported to the Prop, and much of this may come from source code that contains non-MIT licenses. Also any Spin/PASM code derived from non-MIT software could not be posted in OBEX1, but could be posted in OBEX2.
Code that is crucial to Parallax's business should continue to be written with the MIT license and posted to OBEX1. It seems that OBEX2 would be a more open repository that is supported by the Prop community, but Parallax could certainly reference the OBEX2 repository.
And that's one reason why -- for Parallax's sake -- I'm less than enthusiastic about a paid object exchange.
-Phil
Instead, how about add a new section to the existing OBEX that would just have links to third-party sites (vetted by Parallax). That way, companies can control their license terms on their own site if they do not want to upload to the OBEX under MIT. There would be no confusion, but there would still be a central point to start from. I don't think this would diminish the contributions to the OBEX since the only people who are going to redirect you to their site are those that didn't want to upload to the OBEX in the first place.
I talked it over with Ken and a few others here at Parallax, and we decided that it wouldn't work out if we were to host another object exchange. If anyone would like to create an unofficial object exchange on an externally hosted system, we would point people in that direction if they want to post something that doesn't fit in our object exchange. For example I have seen wikis set up for hosting users programs, such as the WiiBrew wiki: http://wiibrew.org/wiki/List_of_homebrew_applications. It wouldn't need to be something someone that any of you are hosting yourselves, it could be something like the unofficial Propeller wiki on wikispaces: http://propeller.wikispaces.com/.
Basically, we want the official Propeller Object Exchange to be the go-to place to get permissively licensed objects, so that users only have to give credit for the code that they download, but they do not have to worry about copyright license limitations. If the community wants to get together to host more restrictive code on an unofficial repository, then we fully support them in doing so.
I talked it over with Ken and a few others here at Parallax, and we decided that it wouldn't work out if we were to host another object exchange. If anyone would like to create an unofficial object exchange on an externally hosted system, we would point people in that direction if they want to post something that doesn't fit in our object exchange. For example I have seen wikis set up for hosting users programs, such as the WiiBrew wiki: http://wiibrew.org/wiki/List_of_homebrew_applications. It wouldn't need to be something someone that any of you are hosting yourselves, it could be something like the unofficial Propeller wiki on wikispaces: http://propeller.wikispaces.com/.
Basically, we want the official Propeller Object Exchange to be the go-to place to get permissively licensed objects, so that users only have to give credit for the code that they download, but they do not have to worry about copyright license limitations. If the community wants to get together to host more restrictive code on an unofficial repository, then we fully support them in doing so.
David Carrier
Parallax Inc.
Yeah!!!! Just don't pass this to far until I can dump my J&J and Bayer stock since the anticipated sales will not be there for aspirin and motrin.......... You have probably dodged a major mess on this one.
Now, where did I place that Illudium PU-36 space modulator...............
I can understand your position but at the same time whats to stop someone who is already intent on doing something evil from ignoring your license all together and simply using your code without your knowledge? It happens every day, if someone is willing to build something for the sole purpose of killing another human I wouldn't put violating a license above the line of things they are willing to do.
Even if you found out about it your only course of action would be a costly court battle.
Let the code be free, people will do what they want regardless of the restrictions you attempt to impose.
Comments
I've seen these anime/video sites with thousands of items; they have really robust search capabilities with nice single page search pages with some checkboxes on the search and browse screens. We could default to MIT license only searches, but allow checking a box to permit searching/browsing for other types of licenses. We could also do the same thing for Prop1/2 objects or C vs SPIN or whatever.
Just my 2 cents.
PS To those of you who wrote languages for the prop - many of them are very cool - I'm speaking of confusion for new prop users.
Yes, I have the same problem. I cannot login or reset my password either.
I thought it was just me...
Bean
Me too
'
What generates the hate factor in the OBEX that kicks one to the curb?
not write Papers on subjects similar to how SAE does. The software authors are the experts, let them write a
paper on the details of a project they have already completed. They can be hired as a consultant to tailor fit
a program to the employers needs.
Hobbyist and companies benefit by having more access to material published about their own specific needs
with Parallax products. The authors would get paid for their papers, and set terms for licensing if they are hired
as a consultant. Hobbyist would be able to purchase relevant Papers instead of books, that include projects
they may not interested in.
Parallax could charge a membership fee, non members would pay an increased cost. Members would
receive a discount on purchasing papers. The authors would receive a royalty from Parallax for the
sale of their Paper.
I thought a second OBEX should be different. I find myself collecting good information from intelligent
authors on these forums, but it never seems to be the whole story. But with Papers for sale, they can
add more detail, get paid for it, and Parallax doesn't need to wait for a trickle of books published about
their products.
Perhaps these papers would help sell the right Propeller for the right job, rather than the newer, must
be better mentality.
PS; I know this isn't the normal way of doing things, But if Phil Pilgrim wrote a Paper on mosfets, or
better yet, 3 phase motor control with the Propeller. I would gladly pay a $20.00 membership, and
$10.00 for his paper.
'
My policy in my life for my ART like photos Ect is copy for no $$$ what do I care .
but making prints Off my work and selling them as a profit . Well Ok that is not cool .prepare for a lawyer ...
as for OBEX code and war and bombs Ect .
the SW is only half of the war mine . the HW is the other part .
and anyone whom is makeing a device like that is not going to care what a EULA or a TOS or a license is going to say .
I like the OBEX how it is BUT the site needs more love ...
I had a chat with Ken a few days ago and I had told him a Modded Wiki code is GNU . its easy to use .
and all WE do is edit the wiki with a .ZIP of code .. in lue of a .PNG or JPG on the page of the object .
Its COTS its turnkry and simple ........
Objects are not any larger then a good rez JPEG . eg 5 Mb or so .
Peter..
Whatever Parallax decides to do, I believe all code, objects, and documentation should remain on a server that they have full control over. It is a lifeline of their business, and I believe they should keep it in house.
Bruce
I think Ken is proposing that the Prop community support a separate repository that can contain non-MIT licensed code. There has not been an urgent need for this in the past because most of the code in the OBEX is written in Spin and PASM, and represents original work. However, once the GCC tools become available there will most likely be more C code ported to the Prop, and much of this may come from source code that contains non-MIT licenses. Also any Spin/PASM code derived from non-MIT software could not be posted in OBEX1, but could be posted in OBEX2.
Code that is crucial to Parallax's business should continue to be written with the MIT license and posted to OBEX1. It seems that OBEX2 would be a more open repository that is supported by the Prop community, but Parallax could certainly reference the OBEX2 repository.
Instead, how about add a new section to the existing OBEX that would just have links to third-party sites (vetted by Parallax). That way, companies can control their license terms on their own site if they do not want to upload to the OBEX under MIT. There would be no confusion, but there would still be a central point to start from. I don't think this would diminish the contributions to the OBEX since the only people who are going to redirect you to their site are those that didn't want to upload to the OBEX in the first place.
Seairth
Basically, we want the official Propeller Object Exchange to be the go-to place to get permissively licensed objects, so that users only have to give credit for the code that they download, but they do not have to worry about copyright license limitations. If the community wants to get together to host more restrictive code on an unofficial repository, then we fully support them in doing so.
— David Carrier
Parallax Inc.
Yeah!!!! Just don't pass this to far until I can dump my J&J and Bayer stock since the anticipated sales will not be there for aspirin and motrin.......... You have probably dodged a major mess on this one.
Now, where did I place that Illudium PU-36 space modulator...............
Frank
It would just use the WIKI SW as a layout to let us use better SW
many sites use the wikipedia like layour and there SW package .
>>>> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki <<<<<<
its OSS and as we have seen wih winkpidia . it can handle large repos well .
and its Very well documented.
infact I may try it on my local server today after class as it would be neat too make a ME WIKI .
I can understand your position but at the same time whats to stop someone who is already intent on doing something evil from ignoring your license all together and simply using your code without your knowledge? It happens every day, if someone is willing to build something for the sole purpose of killing another human I wouldn't put violating a license above the line of things they are willing to do.
Even if you found out about it your only course of action would be a costly court battle.
Let the code be free, people will do what they want regardless of the restrictions you attempt to impose.
Just my 2 cents.