Shop OBEX P1 Docs P2 Docs Learn Events
13-Year-Old Boy Improves Solar Panel Efficiency 50% — Parallax Forums

13-Year-Old Boy Improves Solar Panel Efficiency 50%

edited 2011-09-07 10:12 in General Discussion
13-Year-Old Boy Improves Solar Panel Efficiency 50%

"The only problem is that most solar panel arrays aren't exactly the most efficient replacements for electricity due to their need for the perfect positioning and good weather."
He created a tree-like stand for solar panels and attached them in a Fibonacci-like manner and compared the results with a standard flat solar panel array. His simple creation yielded an incredible 50 percent jump in efficiency between the traditional method and the Fibonacci design.

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/Boy-Solar-Energy-Efficiency,news-12247.html

Now if only Parallax would design a tree stand for some solar panels.....
«1

Comments

  • prof_brainoprof_braino Posts: 4,313
    edited 2011-08-26 06:16
    Comments say he compared 10 static panels (on a flat mounting) and compared this to 20 panels arranged on a tree.
    http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/thinking-tech/why-13-year-olds-solar-power-8216breakthrough-wont-work/8261

    Pretty good try for a 13 years old. The first of many small stumbles before an astonishing success?
  • Duane DegnDuane Degn Posts: 10,588
    edited 2011-08-26 07:03
    From:

    http://www.eco-scams.com/archives/746
    How did this confused science project became international news?

    It turns out this is worse reporting than the "rocket powered" robot arm.

    It still falls short of the "cold fusion" hype.

    Duane

    Edit: Here's another good link about bad science:

    http://optimiskeptic.com/2011/08/21/this-is-where-bad-science-starts/
  • Clock LoopClock Loop Posts: 2,069
    edited 2011-08-26 08:09
    Damn, so this is what makes news?

    No study on the mysterious processor frequency rate reduction for the past 10 years?

    1980-8088 = 2mhz.
    1990-pentium = 75mhz.
    2000-pentium4 = 3ghz
    2010-Core i7 = 3ghz ****STAGNANT PROCESSOR DEVELOPMENT SINCE 2000*****

    Uhh, we did NOT hit mores law wall yet. nor will we.

    This is all about CONTROL, and keeping us stupefied. (thus why the above article made the news)


    You want solar panel innovation? Try looking into what frequency solar panels absorb. And I am sure the range is deplorable. Even plants only use red and blue frequencies, but they manage fine.

    Our panels are so inefficient, because they are not tailored to the frequency ranges our sun and atmosphere create. Even this is already known, but still nothing gets developed in this direction.
    I am really getting tired of the globalist that has billions of dollars but can't make a simple good contribution in the invention area, but yet poor people innovate all the time with little or no money.
    Einstein, tesla, just to name a few.

    But we still allow these massive companies and people to dominate so badly that they oppress technology in fear of their own demise. Im sick of it.
  • Dave HeinDave Hein Posts: 6,347
    edited 2011-08-26 08:21
    Why 13-year-old’s solar power ‘breakthrough’ won’t work

    Too bad the internet wasn't around when I invented a perpetual motion machine at age 13 :)
  • Martin_HMartin_H Posts: 4,051
    edited 2011-08-26 08:44
    Dave, I beg to differ.

    I invented perpetual motion in 1973! I took my Erector set motor and coupled its output shaft to the input shaft of the generator. I wired the generator to the motor and gave the shaft a spin, expecting it to turn forever. Now granted there were bugs to work out as it was harder to turn than before they were electrically coupled. But I was sure the eight year old me would get it sorted out eventually.
  • Dave HeinDave Hein Posts: 6,347
    edited 2011-08-26 08:56
    Mine pre-dates your by 8 years. It used two magnets mounted at either end of a plastic tube. The tube rotated around a nail passing through a slotted area at the midpoint of the tube. A magnet was mounted below the tube, which would repel the one mounted at the end of the tube. This would push the tube up slightly, which would cause the heavier end at the top to come down. When it got to the bottom the magnet would push the tube up again, and so on. It should have run forever, but my construction skills were too limited at that time. That seems to be a common problem with most perpetual motion inventors.
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2011-08-26 09:06
    Even though the kid's results have not stood up, his basic idea was truly inspired.

    I hope he doesn't become discouraged from a career in science because of all this. There should be someone close to him to explain that fame is, by nature, fickle, that not all experiments stand the test of time, and that it's okay if you stub your toe once in awhile. You just have to keep trying.

    -Phil
  • Martin_HMartin_H Posts: 4,051
    edited 2011-08-26 09:22
    OK Dave you convinced me that you have prior art. I agree to not contest your perpetual motion machine patent when it is awarded by the US patent office.

    Phil, I agree. I hope someone explains to him that there's plenty of failure in the careers of most success people. My recent favorite example is Andre Geim won the Nobel Prize in physics for the discovery of graphene. But ten years prior he was a bit of a laughing stock when he won an IgNobel for using magnets to levitate a frog.
  • GadgetmanGadgetman Posts: 2,436
    edited 2011-08-26 09:24
    Clock Loop wrote: »
    Our panels are so inefficient, because they are not tailored to the frequency ranges our sun and atmosphere create. Even this is already known, but still nothing gets developed in this direction.

    The panels used on the ISS and on sattellites all use cells that absorb at least 3 different frequency ranges.
    The problem is that for the moment they have to make 3 different cells and sandwich them together to do this.
    Result: 3x efficient cells costs more than 3 times the price of a single-efficiency cell.
    The same with most that uses more than one colour frequency; colour lasers, colour photography(analog), offset printing...

    Alternative solar-power systems(focusing mirrors to heat salts or other 'high capacity' media, mostly) are gaining ground, but as they require a lot of 'off panel' energy extraction systems, they're not exactly suitable for small-scale(home) usage.
    And unless there's a very large market for the product, they won't be produced.
    And we NEED a 'home usage' sized system to efficiently drive down cost.

    BTW: The easiest way to increase the efficiency of a solar panel today is to use a sun-following mount.
    Strange that the kid never noticed sunflowers...

    The second easiest is to use mirrors(must be cheaper than the cells) to focus additional sunlight onto the cells.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,259
    edited 2011-08-26 11:34
    Solar cells are also more efficient at lower temps. They get very hot (duh) out in the sunlight. Seems like combining a solar water heater/photovoltaic array/heat exchanger would be a win/win all around.

    Big money. Forget I mentioned it. Where's that delete key?
  • GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,366
    edited 2011-08-26 12:33
    Clock Loop wrote: »
    2010-Core i7 = 3ghz ****STAGNANT PROCESSOR DEVELOPMENT SINCE 2000*****

    Well, there have been numerous articles and papers on why the CPU fabbers have concentrated on multiple cores rather than raw speed increases. Multiple core processing is more power efficient for one thing (and better for battery-operated devices) -- you can turn a core off if it's not needed, yet the other cores can continue their threads at rated speed.

    The i7 has six cores, and adding more cores is now the natural progression. It's no longer pipeline speed. I don't think stagnant is a fair word to use.

    Now to this poor kid, and the usual show of pettiness you see when discussing an engineering and scientific discovery (or lack thereof): give the little guy a break. So he got excited that his research somehow centered on the coolness of Fibonacci sequences. He's not the first to think there's something more in that progression than meets the eye.

    The quote from a responder on the energy blog, and reprinted in the article cited above, demonstrates why we have so few kids willing to enter science. Loaded works like "nonsense" and "horribly" are typical of engineer speak. I get so sick of that Smile as they attempt to prove their intellectual or educational superiority (and certainly proving their lack of social grace). They're so used to these kinds of negativistic "cut them down to size" phrases -- they employ them daily among their peers and management -- they don't even know they're using them.

    Just say the findings are unmerited, and the concept needs further research, and then explain in simple terms why.

    -- Gordon
  • treborz17treborz17 Posts: 76
    edited 2011-08-26 13:10
    Actually, solar power credit should go to the pioneer who discovered Yuma Arizona, my place of residence, where tourist are given free hotel rooms, and in some cases free meals any day the sun doesn't shine. Of course we have a few inconveniences such as mail is still provided by Pony Express, and a shortage of gun racks inside of grocery stores, restaurants and churches.

    Hich up and visit a spell,

    Robert
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,259
    edited 2011-08-26 13:20
    Well-said, Gordon & PhiPi. It's easy for armchair experts to overreact and dogpile onto the "flame de jour". Any naysayer can tear down. It takes discipline and restraint to apply gentle correction. Blame the media for the hype, not the 13-year old boy.

    I'm usually a bit skeptical when I see claims of fantastic breakthroughs. It wasn't the kid's specific claims that caught my attention. I was more impressed by the professonalism of the his presentation. It's a lucid and thoughtfully presented writeup that is noteworthy. So definitely, let's laud his observations and nurture his scientific apirations. Otherwise, he'll turn out to be just another bitter old skeptic like me. :)
  • bsnutbsnut Posts: 521
    edited 2011-08-26 21:43
    I agree with erco post 100%. The 13-Year-Old did a good job in how he presented and did his project.

    He also found different way to catch more sunlight on the panels. When you get more sunlight on the panels, the voltage will stay constant for as is there is sunlight.

    It's just good has the panels laying flat or facing south. Hack, I'm not getting this kind of result on the ship that I am restoring and my panels are laying flat. But, I don't have much choice, because laying the panels is the best way for me.
  • Clock LoopClock Loop Posts: 2,069
    edited 2011-08-26 22:19
    Well, there have been numerous articles and papers on why the CPU fabbers have concentrated on multiple cores rather than raw speed increases.

    Numerous articles and papers? Duh, they need to explain the lack of progress (at least in the civilian sector).
    Thats similar to the bank robber who is actually the security guard for the same bank. You expect him to tell on himself? No he is going to tell everyone that he saw the bank robber get away.

    We will find out in the future what DARPA is doing right now with clock speeds behind the closed doors, and you will see that I am right.



    I don't want to take the thunder of this theads topic, but im sorry, copying a core and increasing the wafer size to accomodate is not innovation, its keeping the dumbed down public somewhat happy that they think they are seeing innovation. Dual cpus are not innovative, and also, they could have developed multicore stuff along side the frequency. If parallax can make a 8 core mcu, intel should be making a 100core cpu, not 4 or 8. That kind of innovation was SUPPOSED to be a mid point in the year 2003.

    Back to the solar panel, the kids idea was mostly a failure due to improper scientific testing standards. Hopefully he will learn that, and hopefully he will also learn that most inventors make 100 designs that don't work(failures) and only strike it on the 101st invention.

    If that kid gets discouraged by all this talk, then he doesn't have what it takes to be an innovator, thats ok, many don't.
  • rod1963rod1963 Posts: 752
    edited 2011-08-26 23:47
    The kid deserves a A for effort and should be encouraged. Not raked over the coals by a bunch of egomaniac armchair engineers and scientists to make themselves feel good.

    No wonder kids don't have much interest in science and engineering. Can't blame them when these technical people act like creeps towards them.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2011-08-27 03:14
    100 cores dipping in and out of common shared RAM, as we get now for 2 or 4 cores, would be kind of dumb. The RAM access would be a bottleneck that limits performance. As I often say, an infinite number of cores sharing the same RAM would have zero performance.

    Looks to me like there is a sweet spot around 8 cores where core processing and RAM accessing reach a balance and performance is maximized. As in the Prop. For example I feel that 16 cores for a Prop 2 would have been a mistake.
  • prof_brainoprof_braino Posts: 4,313
    edited 2011-08-27 09:44
    Clock Loop wrote: »
    Back to the solar panel, the kids idea was mostly a failure due to improper scientific testing standards.

    Sorry Clock Loop, the kid's idea was NOT a failure, it was an investigation. Any investigation that returns a result that can be examined is a success. It is a success because we analyze the snot out of it and determine if found he something interesting, and discover where he made mistakes. Kid still deserves an "A" for the project.

    "Improper scientific testing standards" - remember, this is a kid, his job is to play and learn. Playing and making mistakes is how we learn. The same applies to adults, but adults try not to admit it.

    The "failure" is the news reporting that reported his misinterpretation of his results as a breakthrough without checking.

    Number of processor cores and processor speed is a separate topic, why don't you start a separate thread? That would be a good discussion, I thought there were a whole bunch of factors at play.
  • Clock LoopClock Loop Posts: 2,069
    edited 2011-08-27 10:22
    "Improper scientific testing standards" - remember, this is a kid, his job is to play and learn.

    Teach proper testing methods, for instance why was more/less solar panels installed in the Fibonacci vs flat configuration? Proper scientific method suggests using equal panels in either situation, and compare results on graph, simple and proper.
  • prof_brainoprof_braino Posts: 4,313
    edited 2011-08-27 10:43
    Clock Loop wrote: »
    Teach proper testing methods, for instance why was more/less solar panels installed in the Fibonacci vs flat configuration? Proper scientific method suggests using equal panels in either situation, and compare results on graph, simple and proper.

    Very good. You demonstrate that you have the same understanding of proper methods as the rest of us. Now are you going to go to the kid and teach him about it? That is where the information is needed. The OTHER part of proper method is getting the information from the party that has it to the party that needs it when it will do the most good. Telling the kid BEFORE he finished his report would have done the most good, tell him now will still do some good, but telling us who already know and agree will not have much benefit.
  • Clive WakehamClive Wakeham Posts: 152
    edited 2011-08-28 05:26
    Well, there have been numerous articles and papers on why the CPU fabbers have concentrated on multiple cores rather than raw speed increases. Multiple core processing is more power efficient for one thing (and better for battery-operated devices) -- you can turn a core off if it's not needed, yet the other cores can continue their threads at rated speed.

    The i7 has six cores, and adding more cores is now the natural progression. It's no longer pipeline speed. I don't think stagnant is a fair word to use.


    -- Gordon

    The i7 has eight cores, at least my does.
  • ratronicratronic Posts: 1,451
    edited 2011-08-28 08:44
    @Clive Wakeham and GordanMcComb - which core i7 models do you have? I have a 2600k and it only has four cores but eight threads.
  • GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,366
    edited 2011-08-28 09:36
    AFAIK, the i7 only (currently) has a max of six cores. These are the Gulftown chips, part of the Sandy Bridge chipset, and you may remember Intel had to recall those earlier this year due to an issue where a portion of the chip could degrade over time. (I actually bought one of these SB machines, from Costco, but they had me immediately return it.)

    A four core i7 has eight threads. These are often indicated as having eight cores, which is true to a point, but they're virtual cores, not actual physical cores.

    -- Gordon
  • ratronicratronic Posts: 1,451
    edited 2011-08-28 13:42
    Thanks for that Gordon. I dealt with the recall issue myself with an Asus motherboard, the recall came less than a week after I purchased it.
  • Clock LoopClock Loop Posts: 2,069
    edited 2011-08-28 20:20
    A four core i7 has eight threads. These are often indicated as having eight cores, which is true to a point, but they're virtual cores, not actual physical cores.

    -- Gordon


    Most also don't understand that if you enable this technology, known as Hyperthreading, you cut the maximum speed any single program can run at by 1/2 your max processor speed. (at least when the tech first came out) but even so, today, if your core that is split, gets 2 programs using 100% then each program really only processes at 1/2 the speed of the full core.

    So either way, hyperthreading sucks, is a joke, and was just an example of lame technology replacing the development of higher clock speeds.

    prof_braino, actually many users here are young and the same as that kid, who have now learned that using a good scientific method is good advice, for any adventures into the physical manipulation and measurement of our world.
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2011-08-29 00:23
    Any time my shop PC's BIOS memory gets reset, due to battery replacement -- or, who knows? something going bump in the night? -- I wonder why its performance sucks so bad. Ohhh, right! I've got to go back in and disable hyperthreading again. Otherwise, while one thread is running my program, the other will be lollygagging in System Idle Mode.

    -Phil
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,259
    edited 2011-08-29 09:28
    Any time my shop PC's BIOS memory gets reset, due to battery replacement -- or, who knows?
    -Phil

    Who keeps a computer long enough for that button cell to go bad? :)
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2011-08-29 10:16
    I've still got an ancient Gateway Pentium II PC running Win98 that's on all the time. It's tethered to the main WinXP machine via a KVM switch and knows tricks that XP and later versions could never master (like how to read a parallel-port security dongle). I suppose, once the magic smoke has completed its slow leak, I'll have to upgrade the software to the newest version, which doesn't require the dongle.

    -Phil
  • jbarry1506jbarry1506 Posts: 1
    edited 2011-09-04 07:55
    I have trouble believing this kid is being beat up like this for attempting something that most 13 year olds couldn't even dream of doing on an educational forum! This young gentleman is a success and will most likely grow into an accomplished and seasoned engineer. Remember Thomas Edison and this important lesson:

    "After we had conducted thousands of experiments on a certain project
    without solving the problem, one of my associates, after we had
    conducted the crowning experiment and it had proved a failure,
    expressed discouragement and disgust over our having failed to find
    out anything. I cheerily assured him that we had learned something.
    For we had learned for a certainty that the thing couldn't be done
    that way, and that we would have to try some other way."

    The quote above comes from an interview with Edison that was published
    in the January 1921 issue of American Magazine.
  • kwinnkwinn Posts: 8,697
    edited 2011-09-04 10:21
    @jbarry1506, while I agree that he should be commended for attempting something that most 13 year olds couldn't even dream of doing I have to point out that most of the respondents on this thread were supportive of his efforts. The vast majority of the criticism was aimed at those who picked up the story and disseminated it without checking the facts.

    I expect that people who report on science and technology would have enough of an understanding of the field they are working in to be able to separate the possible from wishful thinking, bad science, and outright fraud. Sadly, I have had to lower my expectations considerably. That so many members of this forum questioned the results certainly separates them from the babbling bumblers that did report it without questioning it's validity.
Sign In or Register to comment.