What should Parallax do about the dreaded "Retractable USB cords"?
Hanno
Posts: 1,130
I'm sure everyone using one of these has had intermittent problems with their setup. Sadly, most users end up blaming either their much more expensive hardware or software than the dreaded cable. I've resolved countless ViewPort problems by asking customers to change to a standard USB cable. Many were close to giving up on Parallax, all because of the cheapest component- a simple cable. I've raised this several times and believe that they're no longer shipping them- but there are still plenty of people trying to use them. What to do?
Hanno
Hanno
Comments
My retractable was giving me problems, not the cable itself, but the retracting part of it, so I eliminated the retracting part and it has worked flawlessly for over a year.
Bruce
I had to do that within the first hour of working with my PEK. The super skinny cable is nice, the retracting part not so much.
C.W.
I think mine lasted at least a couple hours
-Phil
On my very first experience with my first protoboard and Prop-plug many years ago, I received that retractable cord. The second night, the thing broke to the point of not being able to retract. Plus I noticed how chintzy the wires were.
Maybe I had a lot more self-confidence back then, anyways I just brought it up immediately, and Jim Carey (no, not the actor) just sent me a normal USB to mini cable no questions asked.
That experience stuck with me, plus the amazement of just hooking up 3 resistors and a cut cable... suddenly I had TV video.
Try removing the retractable device on one of them and you will find a real nice thin short cable. It is also great without the retracting. In fact, I think it is much better without the retraction feature.
To answer your question, Parallax should remove the retractable feature on all the cables they have in stock and just distribute the small tiny cable
And no, I am not volunteering for the job
Bruce
However, there's a reason why every cable that actually complies with the USB spec is thicker.
The spec specifies that the data wires be twisted and shielded. The retractable ones obviously don't do either. The retractable cable can NOT be called or sold as a USB cable.
The poor crosstalk and noise properties do affect it's performance- especially when used with software that takes advantage of the higher speeds that the Prop/USB is capable of.
When I was using the retractable cord I also thought that it worked. However, switching to a real USB cable eliminated intermittent Propeller Tool download problems and even reduced time to load programs.
Try it- I'm sure you all have a bunch of usb cables at home from old digital cameras.
Hanno
The quality of "what" the part is should be obvious to anyone who is having trouble communicating with the Propeller.
It certainly isn't a Parallax designed part, but perhaps one that should be re-considered.
OBC
Maybe the higher speeds should not be the default option.
Do higher serial speeds really add that much value?
Edit: Just pulled mine out of the mothballs and connected it to my Hydra and got the "USB Device Not Recognized" message. lol Hmmm... I have a Belkin Retractable Cat5 Ethernet cable. Hopefully that isn't prone to problems too.
- the Parallax retractable cables do not meet the USB spec- the data wires are not twisted pair or shielded.
- many users have had issues with them
- few users are able to correctly identify that the cable causes the "usb device not recognized" message- they therefore blame the hardware or software
Why is Parallax risking the reputation of a $170 hydra kit on a crappy cable? I've brought this to Parallax's attention several times- I care because I lose customers when my products don't appear to work when a customer assumes that their "USB" cable works. I'm very frustrated that they're still selling it and haven't warned existing customers that although their retractable cable may look like a USB cable, it is NOT a USB cable.
Hanno
For the ones out there, they are just out there. Nothing to be done, but keep informing people.
I really don't understand why Parallax ships those things, they are unreliable.
The problem comes if you actually retract them, think about it, you are pulling on the cord of the cable and every time you do it you are straining it, it obvious when you think about it.
Coley
My test for these things is whether or not they will drive a larger external disk. If a cable will, it's bullet proof for the prop. If it won't, then it's going to be crappy for the prop. Thicker, well engineered, shorter cables are best. And they are not that much money!
One of us should measure the things. I would, but I don't have a real precision meter. Suppose I could use the scope... I would love to confirm the internal resistance though I just contributed here.
Just sell ViewPort with a proper cable.
I don't want to cripple my products- and I do want Parallax to succeed. As I see it by selling and supporting the cable Parallax is shooting themselves and all of us in the foot.
Here's a perfectly valid scenario:
- Chip and everyone on this forum contributes to an awesome product- great hardware, obex, software, support
- Lots of people rave about the Propeller and that Parallax is a company that sells great products
- Parallax sends review kit of ~$200 robot/demoboard/propscope/hydra to an influential reviewer- or even a kid getting started with robots
- Reviewer/new users gets excited- and then connects hardware to PC- with the damn retractable.
- Item doesn't work
- Reviewer writes an Arduino article. Kid gives up on robotics and becomes an evil banker.
As I said before- I've turned dozens of people around from almost giving up to loving the Propeller- all because of a cable.
And to answer "jazzed"- the baud rate has NO impact over the speed that data travels over the USB cable. USB does not run at 9600 baud- it runs at tens of mbps. At that speed you do need to follow the spec- it's there for a reason. As it stands, data gets corrupted by the cable because of high noise and crosstalk. It may work sometimes because USB uses all sorts of error correction, retries, etc to ensure data arrives- but it fails just as often.
Finally- as surprising as it may be, high baud rates are a good thing. To answer Jazzed- I use them to allow:
- PropScope to show full screen graphs of real-time analog and digital measurements at full frame rate.
- 12Blocks to allow people to easily get started with programming.
- ViewPort for powerful debugging- step line by line, real-time graphs of variables/io states, streaming video...
However- this cable doesn't just break my products- it breaks everyone's contributions- hardware, obex software, support, etc...
Hanno
I have seen the light. I agree 100%. Since there are existing problems and bad reviews, eliminate the product from the product line. But of course that is Parallax's decision.
Bruce
Bob Lawrence's answer is the best. That way you would have no one else to blame.
Parallax ships awsome products, And the product should not be hampered by some thing so simple.
It is a problem, and should be addressed for the reason's Hanno has stated...
-Tommy
The cable failed entirely about a few weeks later, I've received numerous other ones since that have never seemed to work right. I agree that Parallax should probably quit selling them, they don't give a good name to their products.
-Phil
The number of retractions would impact the quality of the wires. Once you get down to one tiny thread in the wire(s) carrying signal, all kinds of silly thing can happen before a hard failure.
I agree the product in question should not be shipped.
Expecting no trouble from a solution with many variables (especially the ones beyond your control) is not reasonable though.
It's really surprising to read these comments about my favorite light weight retractable USB cord. I use one on Penguin robots, BASIC Stamps, and now with Propeller projects. As you know, Penguins are in motion and I kept the cable on Penguin when developing around 1,000 programs, so the cable is moving a lot. I also retract the cable when finished with programming. That's at least a thousand retractions. The cable never failed in two years.
I like this cable the most. The other thick cables are too heavy - if you bump a thick cable, then Penguin tips over. Penguin cannot walk with a heavy USB cable attached. I also use the light weight retractable cable for small prop project boards. These cables are great. They put no stress on the board. The board is not sliding around the way it does when it's based on the shape of a heavy usb cable. It also works well for connecting to the top board in a tower. The retraction holder adds a slight weight, just the right amount so it comes straight down and doesn't tangle.
Another good use for this cable is you can partially retract it on purpose. Like a window shade when you want only 50% windowing lighting, you can set 50% cable length. So basically there's never any cord entanglement. Plus it's tiny and packs in a small space. I can keep one inside most of my projects or leave it built into the project. It's the coolest gadget.
So send me all your retractable cables!