Harley- In post #24 you indicate that your own board runs fine with ViewPort at all rates. (From here on, please leave the rate at default of 1mbps).
Is that still the case? Your own board runs fine, but neither the QuickBoard or the ProtoBoard work for you?
That would be incredibly odd.
Here's what I would do:
- rerun your the test you described in post #24.
- change just ONE variable- by using same setup, same code, same cables, same power supply- but change to a Parallax-blessed board
- keep testing- by just changing one variable at a time until things stop working.
What you're seeing could be caused by any number of things:
- bad power supply
- bad usb cable
- flakey usb connection on mac or board
I doubt it's caused by:
- ViewPort
- bad QuickBoard AND bad ProtoBoard
Hanno
Hanno, Tomorrow I will try to work this out at 1 Mbps. I'm not sure what you mean by changing one 'variable', Surely you don't mean one of the VARs.
The QuickStart uses a mini-USB connector and runs off the USB power; the PropPlug uses a standard USB connector. The Prop Proto Board (and my 2-Prop board) uses the PropPlug and a separate dc adapter power source.
Yes, I thought it strange that my board ran OK, but the others wouldn't work with ViewPort. I'll retry both Parallax boards (QS and Prop Proto Board) with the 4-bit counter demo.
A longer time ago I was plugging in/out a PPDB, a C3 and a CP2101 USB2serial converter on different USB-ports on my laptop directly or over an 13 port USB-hub.
Sometimes plugin them in and out even before the driverinstallation finished. for each different USB-socket windows assigned a new comport-number. So I ended up
in having 7 or 8 different comport-numbers as windows always assigns a driver new as soon as the usb-socket changes.
After that ViewPort had problems to connect to the propellers. The propeller-tool managed all the different comport-numbers and worked reliably. So I conclude it is not a driver-problem.
ViewPort had problems. After installing WIndows 7 and new installing the prop-tool and FTDI-driver ViewPort works good. So I suspect that handling a lot of COM-port-entries
in the registry or broken entries in the registry is a problem for ViewPort.
Hanno: Did you ever do some research in this direction?
Harley,
By "change only one variable" I meant to change only change one parameter when you do your tests.
In your case- use the same Mac, same physical USB port, same USB cable, same ViewPort with same 1mbps, same 4bit counter. Only thing you should be changing is which board you're using. If you're changing something else, let us know. When I debug things I become a terribly boring guy- I do the same thing a lot Changing multiple things when you're debugging get's you nowhere fast.
Stefan,
Good thinking. I have seen similar problems - for example, the PICAXE IDE doesn't support COM ports beyond COM16. ViewPort supports any number of COM ports- ie, you can load/run when using a Prop on COM23. However, ViewPort's "automatic identify prop" algorithm does have a timeout- so if you have lots of COM ports, VP may not reach your Prop in time. Workaround is to manually select your COM port in that case.
Harley is running VP under emulation on an older Mac- so I'm a bit impressed that this is working at all!
Hanno
OK, that is what I'd hoped you meant. Today's setup has a Prop Protoboard on COM3 (using PropPlug), and the QuickStart board on COM4 (using a mini-USB cable) with a 4-port Hub expander. Prop Protoboard is powered with a 5v switcher module; QS is designed to be powered via the USB connection. I used NotePad to accumulate some notes:
Prop ProtoboArd
Reset Reset:Propeller v1 on COM3
Reset Reset:Propeller v1 on COM3
Wrote 6875 bytes!
Waiting for reply
Received reply of 254 after 5,1
Opening connection to COM3 at 1000000
Operation timed out.
Received 73233 configuration bytes
QuickStart board
Failed to find Propeller on COM4:Reset:
Reset Reset:Propeller v1 on COM4
Reset Reset:Propeller v1 on COM4
Wrote 6875 bytes!
Waiting for reply
Received reply of 254 after 5,1
Opening connection to COM4 at 1000000
Operation timed out.
Received 77176 configuration bytes
RUN
Reset Reset:Propeller v1 on COM4
Reset Reset:Propeller v1 on COM4
Wrote 6875 bytes!
Waiting for reply
Received reply of 254 after 5,1
Opening connection to COM4 at 1000000
Operation timed out.
Received 73569 configuration bytes
Load RAM
Reset Reset:Propeller v1 on COM4
Reset Reset:Propeller v1 on COM4
Wrote 6875 bytes!
Waiting for reply
Received reply of 254 after 5,1
Opening connection to COM4 at 1000000
Operation timed out.
Received 73456 configuration bytes
I scoped the P16..19 lines to verify that the 4-bit counter was running on each board. But neither board would configure. I've used the Protoboard before with VP, I'm sure, though with earlier version VP. Yet, like I mentioned earlier, I was able to view my 2-Prop board signals with VP!?!?!
Hope the above data is useful. I'm not sure what else I can do at this point when things don't work properly. Any other testing from this end?
Hi Harley,
Thanks for your patience- I'm sorry I wasn't clearer before- I'll try again...
You have a setup which works under a specific set of conditions- you've been successfuly running ViewPort on your multi-prop setup.
When you're doing something else, you experience problems. I'm trying to narrow down what's causing the problem.
I know ViewPort works- because you told me it works on your setup.
I'm very sure Parallax's products work.
So, please get your multi-prop setup running and then change one variable at a time until things don't work.
Here's a sample:
Mac running ViewPort with "4 bit counter" at 1mbps with black USB cable from Mac's rear USB port to multi-prop: works
tried different cable: still works
tried different baud rates: still works
tried plugging USB in different port: still works
added USB webcam: still works
added USB hub: no longer works
See how easy it is to identify the culprit?
Now, let's find yours!
Hanno
I just had a thought- I've been assuming that you haven't edited the "4 bit counter" file- but since all things are possible- please paste that as well. I think your multi-prop project uses an external clock- right? That would be different than both the quickstart/protoboard which use a crystal. If your clock settings are wrong your program may look like it's loading ok, and the LED's may blink, but the timing will be wrong- and communication with ViewPort would fail.....
Hanno
I just had a thought- I've been assuming that you haven't edited the "4 bit counter" file- but since all things are possible- please paste that as well. I think your multi-prop project uses an external clock- right? That would be different than both the quickstart/protoboard which use a crystal. If your clock settings are wrong your program may look like it's loading ok, and the LED's may blink, but the timing will be wrong- and communication with ViewPort would fail.....
I'll try to run the "4 bit counter" on my 2-Prop board. One Prop, the master, uses a crystal, and provides a 5 MHz timing to the 2nd Prop. So I should be able to try it on the master.
No, I hadn't ever edited any of your examples that come with ViewPort. But could do a copy/paste it that helps, And thank you for the 'variables' explanation. Makes sense with that expansion on your idea. Series of eliminations, if possible.
I did notice a slight difference in USB cables. The one that comes with the PropPlug if 39" long and the one I purchased from Walmart for the QS is 47" I think I also have one of Parallax's retractable USB cables; a replacement for one a cat chewed nearly in half. I'll try different ports on the iMac and anything else to find the bad guy.
I'll get to this tomorrow; don't want the spouse to be grouchy with me in the 'lab'.
The only difference I see between the QuickStart and the PropPlug is the USB-Power-Enable circuit on the QuickStart. I would try to disable this circuit by connecting the /USB_PWR_EN pin on the 40 pin header to ground, and look if this makes a difference.
Why are you suggesting this? Wouldn't that prevent use of USB power? I'm trying to use the QS board as designed, with no modifications. If there are functions of the board that don't operate as expected Parallax should clarify them.
The /USB_PWR_EN enables the USB power if tied to ground.
The QuickStart has a special circuit with a MOS-FET that waits with turning the power to the Propeller on until the USB signal at the FT232 is in a known state. I have the feeling that the QuickStart needs much longer to boot up because of this circuit. It may be that your MAC with Parallels and ViewPort resets the USB port after programing and the Power Enable circuit delays the start of the Propeller every time.
Couple of hours trying various combinations and it appears my LCD program for the QuickStart must have a bug in it.
I wish I had a drawing program. So imagine the block diagram of iMac on the left, it has 3 USB ports (two used by keyboard and printer; that's why the 4-port hub), then either one of three cables, A, B, or C directly plugged into the iMac or the 4-port hub in between. Then on the right is a board under test. Cable A is 1 meter, or 39"; cable B is 47"; and cable C is one of those retractable USB cables from Parallax, length about 30.5" fully extended. The 4-port hub adds 24" to the cable lengths when used.
I began the test with cable A plugged into the iMac; the other end connected to my 2-Prop board. I could run the 4-bit counter on Prop 1 OK, the not the second Prop which gets its 'clock' from Prop 1. Testing consisted of ID, Load RAM, Connect and Run. Did all those faultlessly over and over. Tried it with cables B and C. Tried it with the 4-port hub, it ran OK. Then tried the Prop Protoboard; that also ran OK. And finally with the QuickStart board the 4-bit counter today ran fine.
But when I tried my LCD program on the QuickStart board or Prop Protoboard it could ID but NOT Load RAM, Connect or Run. It looks like the bug is in my program, huh?
Unfortunately, the testing provided different results than previous days tests. May have had too many other things involved at once; maybe it was a warmer day and mains a bit lower so USB voltage not proper. A bit disappointing to have different results than what I say before. But also good to know that ViewPort worked fine, all the various boards worked, just not my LCD program. Apologies, Hanno, for having you involved any. But at first the problem seemed in a different place than today's results. Especially when I couldn't run the 4-bit counter on any board at first. Sure was nice to see the LAS waveforms on all three boards today. ViewPort is a tool I depend on quite heavily. Ok, can I say it is 'heavenly'? For now I think I can say this QS/VP is no longer a problem. Now how do I flag this thread as solved?
I guess go to the first post, click edit, click go advanced and there should be an option for setting status as solved
keep the questions coming
best regards
Thank you for that info. Took a while to find it. It is 'hidden' in the Prefix selection menu as 'no prefix' in the default setting. Talk of 'transparency'. NOT!
Though, I think I will await hearing from Hanno first.
Harley-
I'm glad this is resolved. I know I've said this many times before- the only good place for a "parallax retractable usb cord" is the hottest place is hell- please get it there asap. Those things have probably caused more problems than anything else produced by Parallax- they do NOT work reliably.
Hanno
@ Hanno. Re: retractable usb' cable, I used the one that came with the original PropPlug for several years before a cat/kitten chewed it nearly in half. I did a lot of programming and ViewPort'ing with it. I'd guess if one captured eye-patterns of it and standard USB cable there might be a difference. I bought a replacement for that one. And hadn't used it until today's testing. I liked concept of the retractable idea so that only the length needed would be used; not a longer cable laying all around the work area.
I downloaded your latest VP and manual to get up to date. Hopefully the installation is less painful than previous. Seems my files aren't in the proper places each install.
Comments
Is that still the case? Your own board runs fine, but neither the QuickBoard or the ProtoBoard work for you?
That would be incredibly odd.
Here's what I would do:
- rerun your the test you described in post #24.
- change just ONE variable- by using same setup, same code, same cables, same power supply- but change to a Parallax-blessed board
- keep testing- by just changing one variable at a time until things stop working.
What you're seeing could be caused by any number of things:
- bad power supply
- bad usb cable
- flakey usb connection on mac or board
I doubt it's caused by:
- ViewPort
- bad QuickBoard AND bad ProtoBoard
Hanno
The QuickStart uses a mini-USB connector and runs off the USB power; the PropPlug uses a standard USB connector. The Prop Proto Board (and my 2-Prop board) uses the PropPlug and a separate dc adapter power source.
Yes, I thought it strange that my board ran OK, but the others wouldn't work with ViewPort. I'll retry both Parallax boards (QS and Prop Proto Board) with the 4-bit counter demo.
A longer time ago I was plugging in/out a PPDB, a C3 and a CP2101 USB2serial converter on different USB-ports on my laptop directly or over an 13 port USB-hub.
Sometimes plugin them in and out even before the driverinstallation finished. for each different USB-socket windows assigned a new comport-number. So I ended up
in having 7 or 8 different comport-numbers as windows always assigns a driver new as soon as the usb-socket changes.
After that ViewPort had problems to connect to the propellers. The propeller-tool managed all the different comport-numbers and worked reliably. So I conclude it is not a driver-problem.
ViewPort had problems. After installing WIndows 7 and new installing the prop-tool and FTDI-driver ViewPort works good. So I suspect that handling a lot of COM-port-entries
in the registry or broken entries in the registry is a problem for ViewPort.
Hanno: Did you ever do some research in this direction?
keep the questions coming
best regards
Stefan
By "change only one variable" I meant to change only change one parameter when you do your tests.
In your case- use the same Mac, same physical USB port, same USB cable, same ViewPort with same 1mbps, same 4bit counter. Only thing you should be changing is which board you're using. If you're changing something else, let us know. When I debug things I become a terribly boring guy- I do the same thing a lot
Stefan,
Good thinking. I have seen similar problems - for example, the PICAXE IDE doesn't support COM ports beyond COM16. ViewPort supports any number of COM ports- ie, you can load/run when using a Prop on COM23. However, ViewPort's "automatic identify prop" algorithm does have a timeout- so if you have lots of COM ports, VP may not reach your Prop in time. Workaround is to manually select your COM port in that case.
Harley is running VP under emulation on an older Mac- so I'm a bit impressed that this is working at all!
Hanno
OK, that is what I'd hoped you meant. Today's setup has a Prop Protoboard on COM3 (using PropPlug), and the QuickStart board on COM4 (using a mini-USB cable) with a 4-port Hub expander. Prop Protoboard is powered with a 5v switcher module; QS is designed to be powered via the USB connection. I used NotePad to accumulate some notes:
Prop ProtoboArd
Reset Reset:Propeller v1 on COM3
Reset Reset:Propeller v1 on COM3
Wrote 6875 bytes!
Waiting for reply
Received reply of 254 after 5,1
Opening connection to COM3 at 1000000
Operation timed out.
Received 73233 configuration bytes
QuickStart board
Failed to find Propeller on COM4:Reset:
Reset Reset:Propeller v1 on COM4
Reset Reset:Propeller v1 on COM4
Wrote 6875 bytes!
Waiting for reply
Received reply of 254 after 5,1
Opening connection to COM4 at 1000000
Operation timed out.
Received 77176 configuration bytes
RUN
Reset Reset:Propeller v1 on COM4
Reset Reset:Propeller v1 on COM4
Wrote 6875 bytes!
Waiting for reply
Received reply of 254 after 5,1
Opening connection to COM4 at 1000000
Operation timed out.
Received 73569 configuration bytes
Load RAM
Reset Reset:Propeller v1 on COM4
Reset Reset:Propeller v1 on COM4
Wrote 6875 bytes!
Waiting for reply
Received reply of 254 after 5,1
Opening connection to COM4 at 1000000
Operation timed out.
Received 73456 configuration bytes
I scoped the P16..19 lines to verify that the 4-bit counter was running on each board. But neither board would configure. I've used the Protoboard before with VP, I'm sure, though with earlier version VP. Yet, like I mentioned earlier, I was able to view my 2-Prop board signals with VP!?!?!
Hope the above data is useful. I'm not sure what else I can do at this point when things don't work properly. Any other testing from this end?
Thanks for your patience- I'm sorry I wasn't clearer before- I'll try again...
You have a setup which works under a specific set of conditions- you've been successfuly running ViewPort on your multi-prop setup.
When you're doing something else, you experience problems. I'm trying to narrow down what's causing the problem.
I know ViewPort works- because you told me it works on your setup.
I'm very sure Parallax's products work.
So, please get your multi-prop setup running and then change one variable at a time until things don't work.
Here's a sample:
Mac running ViewPort with "4 bit counter" at 1mbps with black USB cable from Mac's rear USB port to multi-prop: works
tried different cable: still works
tried different baud rates: still works
tried plugging USB in different port: still works
added USB webcam: still works
added USB hub: no longer works
See how easy it is to identify the culprit?
Now, let's find yours!
Hanno
Hanno
I'll try to run the "4 bit counter" on my 2-Prop board. One Prop, the master, uses a crystal, and provides a 5 MHz timing to the 2nd Prop. So I should be able to try it on the master.
No, I hadn't ever edited any of your examples that come with ViewPort. But could do a copy/paste it that helps, And thank you for the 'variables' explanation. Makes sense with that expansion on your idea. Series of eliminations, if possible.
I did notice a slight difference in USB cables. The one that comes with the PropPlug if 39" long and the one I purchased from Walmart for the QS is 47" I think I also have one of Parallax's retractable USB cables; a replacement for one a cat chewed nearly in half. I'll try different ports on the iMac and anything else to find the bad guy.
I'll get to this tomorrow; don't want the spouse to be grouchy with me in the 'lab'.
You mentioned in an earlier post that your using an older version....can you upgrade to the latest v.4.6.0 and see if your problem goes away?
Andy
Why are you suggesting this? Wouldn't that prevent use of USB power? I'm trying to use the QS board as designed, with no modifications. If there are functions of the board that don't operate as expected Parallax should clarify them.
Your avatar is a cheerful one.
The /USB_PWR_EN enables the USB power if tied to ground.
The QuickStart has a special circuit with a MOS-FET that waits with turning the power to the Propeller on until the USB signal at the FT232 is in a known state. I have the feeling that the QuickStart needs much longer to boot up because of this circuit. It may be that your MAC with Parallels and ViewPort resets the USB port after programing and the Power Enable circuit delays the start of the Propeller every time.
Andy
Couple of hours trying various combinations and it appears my LCD program for the QuickStart must have a bug in it.
I wish I had a drawing program. So imagine the block diagram of iMac on the left, it has 3 USB ports (two used by keyboard and printer; that's why the 4-port hub), then either one of three cables, A, B, or C directly plugged into the iMac or the 4-port hub in between. Then on the right is a board under test. Cable A is 1 meter, or 39"; cable B is 47"; and cable C is one of those retractable USB cables from Parallax, length about 30.5" fully extended. The 4-port hub adds 24" to the cable lengths when used.
I began the test with cable A plugged into the iMac; the other end connected to my 2-Prop board. I could run the 4-bit counter on Prop 1 OK, the not the second Prop which gets its 'clock' from Prop 1. Testing consisted of ID, Load RAM, Connect and Run. Did all those faultlessly over and over. Tried it with cables B and C. Tried it with the 4-port hub, it ran OK. Then tried the Prop Protoboard; that also ran OK. And finally with the QuickStart board the 4-bit counter today ran fine.
But when I tried my LCD program on the QuickStart board or Prop Protoboard it could ID but NOT Load RAM, Connect or Run. It looks like the bug is in my program, huh?
Unfortunately, the testing provided different results than previous days tests. May have had too many other things involved at once; maybe it was a warmer day and mains a bit lower so USB voltage not proper. A bit disappointing to have different results than what I say before. But also good to know that ViewPort worked fine, all the various boards worked, just not my LCD program. Apologies, Hanno, for having you involved any. But at first the problem seemed in a different place than today's results. Especially when I couldn't run the 4-bit counter on any board at first. Sure was nice to see the LAS waveforms on all three boards today. ViewPort is a tool I depend on quite heavily. Ok, can I say it is 'heavenly'? For now I think I can say this QS/VP is no longer a problem. Now how do I flag this thread as solved?
keep the questions coming
best regards
Stefan
Thank you for that info. Took a while to find it. It is 'hidden' in the Prefix selection menu as 'no prefix' in the default setting. Talk of 'transparency'. NOT!
Though, I think I will await hearing from Hanno first.
I'm glad this is resolved. I know I've said this many times before- the only good place for a "parallax retractable usb cord" is the hottest place is hell- please get it there asap. Those things have probably caused more problems than anything else produced by Parallax- they do NOT work reliably.
Hanno
I downloaded your latest VP and manual to get up to date. Hopefully the installation is less painful than previous. Seems my files aren't in the proper places each install.