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Volkswagen AutoPilot: Deal or No Deal? — Parallax Forums

Volkswagen AutoPilot: Deal or No Deal?

ercoerco Posts: 20,259
edited 2011-07-29 06:04 in General Discussion
http://www.roboticstrends.com/consumer_education/article/volkswagen_debuts_temporary_auto_pilot

Cars are getting smarter, so it's fine that human drivers get dumber. Have you seen the commercials for Mercedes (I think) where these classy, smart-looking people (including a Google president) testify how their Mercedes saved their life by sensing the congestion ahead and applied brakes, while the idiot drivers were completely oblivious to the situation? Great role models!

How us that something that I want to aspire to? "If you're a complete boob, this is the safest car for you!"

Sadly, most bad drivers don't KNOW they're bad drivers.

Comments

  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2011-07-25 10:01
    For a long time now it has been in fashion amongst "classy and smart looking people" to be proud of their ignorance. They flash it around as a badge of honour. It gives them entry to "the club". Don't you know, actually studying and learning something is for the peasants who work for you.
  • bill190bill190 Posts: 769
    edited 2011-07-26 06:28
    Hummm... I've been teaching a teenager how to drive the last month. The BIGGEST problem I have had with this kid is getting him to react ahead of time to situations further down the road...

    Like the traffic signal ahead switches to yellow, then red. He keeps his foot on the accelerator - does not think about beginning to slow down *now*.

    Or people/vehicles stopped on the edge of our narrow rural roads around here. Does not think to slow down from 55 while passing them or moving into the oncoming lane (if possible) to give them some room - avoid possibly hitting them.

    Then yesterday we were on a 6 lane freeway (3 lanes our side), speed 60. Up ahead I saw the traffic completely stopped! I said what do you see ahead? He said "traffic stopped." He kept his foot on the accelerator and continued to go 60! I said SLOW DOWN, SLOW DOWN, SLOW DOWN!!!

    (Then I explained about some of the 60 car pileups I've seen on the freeways of California and WHY it is a good idea to immediately start *gradually* slowing down in that situation. You need to alert the cars behind you and get them to start slowing down - don't suddenly come to a stop on a freeway if you can avoid it, or you will see cars flying all over the place in your rear view mirror!)

    Anyway he is starting to "get it". Not easy to get him to "think ahead" or anticipate problems...
  • GadgetmanGadgetman Posts: 2,436
    edited 2011-07-26 09:25
    Looking far ahead and actually understanding and reacting to it is just about the most important point when learning to drive.

    The worst thing I see on the roads is cars 'glued' to one of the painted lines. It means the driver is more concerned about his placement on the road (and failing that, too) than noticing what is happening around him.
    Mostly these are older drivers, but there's a lot of 'homeschooled' youths, too, doing it.

    One day I was out driving with a buddy in the passenger seat and we had just passed the few lights on the way out of town, he asked me, 'How come you're so lucky that the lights change to green just as you get to the intersection'?
    He never realised that the lights were visible for hundreds of meters before the intersections, and that I released the throttle when I saw a red light.

    Generally, I'm sceptical to much of those 'assist' systems.
    'Lane warning' ... Right... They should try using that in the winter, when everything is covered by snow.. Or in the spring when it's revealed that the thick(and it seems, brittle) 'paint' used has been scraped off by the plough...
    'Anti-skid'... That's weird... I've been driving for over 20 years, on every condition imaginable(and a few more) and never needed it. Could it be because I actually have training in how to correct a skid, and therefore understand what causes them? (I also think that 'drifters' should be shot on sight, but that's another matter)
    I've seen 4WD cars spinning wildly on very gentle slopes where my front-wheel drive car has no problems.
    (I don't believe that full throttle is the solution to every problem.)
    If I have to get up a slope where the front-wheel drive isn't enough, I'll BACK UP!
    (That's what the Mythbusters got wrong about driving on snow/ice. It's only useful when going uphill. It's also useful for going back down if you fail to get up. Your car is then pointed the right way... Backing down a slope is dangerous)
    and if that doesn't work, I have chains...

    ABS is nice, I'll admit... And yes, I want it on my next car...

    If someone can't drive safely without those gadgets, they don't have any business driving at all.
  • edited 2011-07-26 12:30
    Gadgetman wrote: »
    ABS is nice, I'll admit... And yes, I want it on my next car...

    ABS is dangerous because when you have to slam the brakes on to stop, that is when the car takes the brakes off and you roll forward instead of stopping.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,259
    edited 2011-07-26 12:57
    Or worse, when people get complacent BECAUSE they have all those geegaws on their car and they forget how to drive without them. When they rent or borrow a car without ABS, traction control, and automatic braking, I don't want to be on the road with them.

    Too bad technology is more in vogue than common sense.
  • TorTor Posts: 2,010
    edited 2011-07-26 13:56
    The first level of understanding traffic is to understand what you see in front of you (re. the teenager who didn't slow down when the light switches). Without learning this you can't drive.

    The second level of understanding traffic is to see where other cars and people will be in the future, i.e. predicting their trajectories. This is also important, but people who don't drive enough, or are very uninterested in driving can be pretty poor at it.

    The third level of understanding traffic is to see what the situation will be several steps ahead, so that you can e.g. slow down (or, in other situations, increase speed), or maybe pull over, because you can see that this will allow another driver to move in a certain way that will again avoid a problem with a third driver or other trafficant. This, and more complex scenarios, often requires serious training and can take years to acquire.

    When driving I daily see people who cannot see that the bus they stop for because it's taking a turn into their road will need space to take the turn. They don't see this, so they drive too far ahead into the junction before they stop. Then they have to back up, unless they've already created a total deadlock. Not to mention the guy who pulled up along the bus on its right side, when the bus was already about to turn right. He saw it, but didn't realise that even if the bus had its own lane it would need more space. His BMW didn't look too good after that.

    Anti-spin: I agree with Gadgetman. I've never needed that even once and I've been driving all my adult life, all over the world, not to mention at home where there's at least 5 months of snow. Front wheel drive, back wheel drive, four wheel drive. Anti-spin has no place in a car meant to be driven by someone who actually knows how to drive.

    ABS: Bad, bad, bad. ABS gives a longer break length in almost any condition. Including breaking when going straight on asphalt. It's even worse in certain snowy conditions. I once stayed a couple of weeks in a region with light daily snow showers. The ABS breaks on my rental car worked reasonably OK immediately after the snowplow truck had passed, when there was a hard snow surface. After a light shower of snow over this hard snow surface the car was impossible to stop. When I was leaving the hotel in the morning there was a very short, not steep downhill road to the main road. I would go down there very slowly, like when you leave a driveway. The only way to avoid just rolling onto the main road uncontrollably was to switch off the ignition. I'm not kidding. That switched off the ABS and the breaks worked as they should (no problem with traction on that surface. Very good breaking).
    Then one evening a reindeer jumped onto the road some 50-60 meters ahead, and it started to run in a zig-zag pattern along the road. I couldn't pass it due to the zig-zag, but I couldn't stop either - the ABS wouldn't let me! So I just drove off the road instead.
    A colleague travelled to that same region a week after me and experienced the same weather conditions. As I was wondering if there was something seriously wrong with the breaks in my rented car I asked him if he had any trouble with his (different) car. He told me he had more or less exactly the same exeperience (minus the reindeer).

    Now I drive an old car with no anti-spin, no ABS. And I pay to keep it working. To me this is much safer than buying a new car. I drive my father's new car regularly, and in winter his car's breaks are pathetic compared to the breaks of my car. Or the previous car I had.
    ABS is only good for people who have never done the training they should have been through: How to handle the car if you have to sverve or slow down when turning. And those people should not be on the road.
  • Ray0665Ray0665 Posts: 231
    edited 2011-07-26 16:00
    Sure you gadget equipped car may stop in time but what about the nitwit behind you that doesn't or the fool that T bones you. This is like having a 4 wheel drive in snow you might be able to go but three cars in front of you is the guy with bald tires spinning away and there you sit..

    Re ABS systems there is some interesting reading here
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-lock_braking_system
  • prof_brainoprof_braino Posts: 4,313
    edited 2011-07-26 16:05
    erco wrote: »
    how their Mercedes saved their life by sensing the congestion ahead and applied brakes
    Sadly, most bad drivers don't KNOW they're bad drivers.

    Problem is, even the BEST driver can have a lapse; all drivers are bad drivers at some time or other. Out of 1000 driver on the road, statistically one of them will make SOME mistake. It only takes one mistake to kill you. This would be handy "just in case" but I wouldn't rely on it exclusivley. Just like I leave the anti-lock brakes system running, but I still know how to stop the car if it fails.
  • TorTor Posts: 2,010
    edited 2011-07-27 05:29
    Where I live there is now every week a traffic death caused by cars crashing front-to-front because one vehicle comes over in the wrong (meeting) lane. Some of them probably slept at the wheel, but I think what happens in most of the cases is simply that one driver lose concentration for a moment, or for some other reason just happens to cross the mid-road line momentarily. It _is_ very easy to have a two-second lapse and then correct it. This has probably been going on all the time, it's just that with increased traffic you hit a car if you do that. In the past (where I live) there were so few cars on the roads (lots of country, few towns) that the chance of meeting another car on the road just when you had your occasional mistake didn't result in anything. Just steer the car back and continue. With increased traffic you get disasters instead.

    -Tor
  • edited 2011-07-27 06:03
    Tor wrote: »
    Where I live there is now every week a traffic death caused by cars crashing front-to-front because one vehicle comes over in the wrong (meeting) lane. Some of them probably slept at the wheel, but I think what happens in most of the cases is simply that one driver lose concentration for a moment, or for some other reason just happens to cross the mid-road line momentarily.

    "It is all about me." I've seen adults on IVY League colleges walk in back of vehicles backing up even though trucks and vans have backup beepers and vehicles backing up have a blind side and cannot see pedestrians. You would think that adults who have all that money and go to college would be smarter than the rest of us but "it is all about me".

    Pedestrians in the hood jaywalk even though the driver has a green light and vehicles in the hood run red lights. That is why I stopped driving in certain sections of different towns and cities on weekend nights.
  • edited 2011-07-27 06:06
    Ray0665 wrote: »
    Sure you gadget equipped car may stop in time but what about the nitwit behind you that doesn't or the fool that T bones you. This is like having a 4 wheel drive in snow you might be able to go but three cars in front of you is the guy with bald tires spinning away and there you sit..

    It snowed all night and the cheap city did not plow or salt the roads. My boss didn't have the sense to close. I went to work and when I had to stop the car, the anti-lock breaking system went on and the car kept on rolling for yards so to avoid hitting cars I turned where there were no cars. ABS is more dangerous than you think.
  • bill190bill190 Posts: 769
    edited 2011-07-27 06:52
    Chuckz wrote: »
    "It is all about me." I've seen adults on IVY League colleges walk in back of vehichles backing up even though trucks and vans have backup beepers and vehicles backing up have a blind side and cannot see pedestrians. You would think that adults who have all that money and go to college would be smarter than the rest of us but "it is all about me".

    That is another thing I'm trying to drum into the head of that teenager: When turning right at a stop sign or red traffic signal, after looking to the left, ALSO look to the right before proceeding - pedestrians will walk in front of your car while you are looking to the left!

    And when backing up from a parking slot at a shopping center, your head should look like a chicken's! (Rapidly turning head: left window, left mirror, rear-view mirror, right mirror, right window, then back...) And back up very slow. Pedestrians and other cars will appear out of nowhere.

    Another "gotcha" is you are turning right and a car is approaching from the left with its turn signal on. Every once and awhile that car will not turn, but will continue on down the road! So I told the kid to not assume a car is going to turn just because the turn signal is on. Rather wait until it actually starts to turn before proceeding.
  • GadgetmanGadgetman Posts: 2,436
    edited 2011-07-27 08:11
    NEVER EVER back out of a parking slot.
    Back into it!

    Sure, it's a bit more difficult to back into it than driving forwards into it, but it's many times more difficult to back out of it.
  • TorTor Posts: 2,010
    edited 2011-07-27 11:49
    One thing I always do if I have to park in a way that forces me to have to back out is to walk behind the car before I enter it. Then I back out immediately instead of wasting time inside the car. Otherwise there could be a child behind the car. Or, as a friend experienced 20 years ago when a non-too-smart teenager parked his moped behind the parked car (parked in a way that backing out was the only option) with the expected result.
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2011-07-28 06:27
    Auto-pilot? Parking? I'd love to have a car that you could get out of and go do your shopping while it seeks a parking space or drives perpetually around the block until you tell it to return. I know this is not very environmental, but that is likely to be where a good auto-piloted car will take us.

    This whole thing about backing in and out is rather odd. I have had a couple of vans and several big trucks where you never could see directly behind you. Good drivers adapt by avoiding situations where they have to back up or by making sure they know what is behind them before they do. With diagonal parking, backing in is not an option - everyone parks head in and backs out.
  • piguy101piguy101 Posts: 248
    edited 2011-07-28 12:59
    My Logic: I figure a junction is where most car crashes and deaths occur, so if I always speed in a junction I'm in the danger zone for less time thus making me safer.
  • SSteveSSteve Posts: 808
    edited 2011-07-28 13:31
    I heard a great joke on the radio the other day:

    "A young woman was riding in the car with her elderly aunt. They came to a red light and the aunt drove right through it without even slowing down. This frightened the young woman but she didn't want to upset her aunt so she didn't say anything. They came to another red light and again the elderly aunt stormed right through it. Now the young woman felt she had to say something. "Auntie, do you realize you just drove straight through two red lights?" To which her aunt replied "Oh my God! Am I driving?"
  • GadgetmanGadgetman Posts: 2,436
    edited 2011-07-28 13:34
    If you really want to avoid crashing, don't drive on the day before Christmas.
    (Yes, really. There's more crashes and fender benders on that day than any other. Everone is too stressed to think clearly)
    It may be a good idea to avoid driing on 'boxing day' or the 'black something'(Is that at Thanksgiving?) or other days with extreme shopping, too. You may end up spending more money on fixing your car than you saved on 'great deals'...
  • bill190bill190 Posts: 769
    edited 2011-07-29 06:04
    piguy101 wrote: »
    My Logic: I figure a junction is where most car crashes and deaths occur, so if I always speed in a junction I'm in the danger zone for less time thus making me safer.

    On a similar note...
    I read that "77 percent of car accidents happen within 10 miles of your home".

    So I moved away from there! :smile:
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