Converting Video to Uncompressed
Bobb Fwed
Posts: 1,119
This has nothing to do with electronics, but this is the smarted forum group I know, so I figure someone would have the answer. I did a Google search, with no obvious answers...
Adobe Premiere CS3 has problems with some H.264 video I shot recently. The rendered video is good until I change the speed of a clip, then that clip becomes very jumpy. The frames in the video skip forward and backward, for no good reason. I've used Premiere for years, but mostly with video captured direct from camcorders which are all uncompressed AVI. I just assumed other video formats would be just as compatible. Especially since almost all newer cameras record in compressed formats.
A suggestion I did see in my searches (which has a very good possibility of fixing the problem) was to convert the source video to uncompressed AVI. I'm hoping someone knows of a converter that can do this.
All the converters I've found (or currently use), only compress video. I need to go in the opposite direction. Also, batch conversion is absolutely necessary, as I have a hundred or so videos to convert (and there are more to come). I also need it to be dynamic enough to detect resolution (mostly 720p and 1080p) and frame rate (I have a lot of 60fps video)
Any suggestions as to how to fix this without conversion would also be very helpful. Maybe someone has experience with a newer version of Premiere, and can vouch for it's ability to work with H.264 video...
Adobe Premiere CS3 has problems with some H.264 video I shot recently. The rendered video is good until I change the speed of a clip, then that clip becomes very jumpy. The frames in the video skip forward and backward, for no good reason. I've used Premiere for years, but mostly with video captured direct from camcorders which are all uncompressed AVI. I just assumed other video formats would be just as compatible. Especially since almost all newer cameras record in compressed formats.
A suggestion I did see in my searches (which has a very good possibility of fixing the problem) was to convert the source video to uncompressed AVI. I'm hoping someone knows of a converter that can do this.
All the converters I've found (or currently use), only compress video. I need to go in the opposite direction. Also, batch conversion is absolutely necessary, as I have a hundred or so videos to convert (and there are more to come). I also need it to be dynamic enough to detect resolution (mostly 720p and 1080p) and frame rate (I have a lot of 60fps video)
Any suggestions as to how to fix this without conversion would also be very helpful. Maybe someone has experience with a newer version of Premiere, and can vouch for it's ability to work with H.264 video...
Comments
Keep in mind, that unless you're using a professional grade camera that shoots uncompressed... everything is compressed. This is because just about every format gives up some chroma information as a form of compression. I think the avi formats you've been using may have been something more to Premiere's liking, such as DV, rather than actual uncompressed.
Anyways, for projects that I've done, I've usually rendered to uncompressed Quicktime Animation codec, then back to the original format. My results have always been good, but technology has come a long way since I've last cut video, so a better workflow may now exist.
As for Premiere... Adobe has added a lot since CS3, but you might want to try the demo before making a decision. And for batch converting, I'm fairly certain that ffmpeg can do what you want.
I understand that. The primary source of the video was, as I said, "direct from camcorders". So it was captured and saved through Premiere. I imagine there was some compression (maybe DV), but every label said "uncompressed". Maybe it's just lossless compression.
I will look into ffmpeg. I don't feel like spending $300 on upgrading Premiere right now. Though, I did forget about Adobe's full featured demos. I might give CS5.5 a try.
Thanks.
Though it may seem counter intuitive, profiles for higher definition are often simpler. Because there's a larger bitrate, they don't need to deal with high compressions. Plus an HD decoder has a hard time dealing with the bits *plus* extra overhead of a deeper compression.
I know JD recommended FFmpeg, but honestly, if you're not already familiar with it, it's a black hole. Nearly all of the codecs in it are unofficial, and it's rife with quirks and glitches. It's easy to get lost in all the command line switches, and if you opt for a GUI front end it's very likely the one setting you really need isn't provided. You pay for it being free.
I don't necessarily have an alternative, but as Adobe provides a free month of any of their software you can try Premier CS5 at no cost. I'd do it on a machine that doesn't already have a CS3 installation, though.
Finally, as JD says, DV is not uncompressed. The compression codec used depends on the camera. Some cameras use quasi-standards - looks like H.264 (or whatever) but it's not. This is often related to the licensing the camera manufacturer is willing to pay for. Few pay for the full suite of H.264-related patents. They rely on your editing software being able to cope with the semi-non standard nature of the video, or else they provide conversion software.
You don't need or want uncompressed video. Most video editing programs support generic and proprietary intermediate formats that are "lossless" or nearly so. Remember that video codecs do two general kinds of compression: spacial and temporal. Codecs like HuffYUV address spacial compression, but not temporal. Most of the artifacts you see in playback are from temporal compression.
-- Gordon
I will try to get an example for you guys to see.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRcJCYz5t5I
But this is what I see no matter where or how it is rendered. Notice the random frames that get placed in spots for no reason.
Obviously the source does not have these anomalous frames, and Premiere doesn't display them in the preview window, until I render it for preview, then they are there.
It doesn't happen at 100% speed, and it rarely happens at 50% speed (this is a 59.94fps source rendering at 29.97fps), but almost any other speed it screws up.
I've tested it with other "simpler" codecs. I have a camera that records in Motion JPEG, and it handled that just fine. So now I'm thinking if I convert it into any other format, it may do fine. Uncompressed would be best since Premiere natively doesn't need to render it for preview (unless edited), but I may be able to get it to work in another codec.
I do some editing myself and this is what I use.
So I think Jason has it right, it's the temporal compression that is messing it up. It still seems like Premiere should be able to handle it (being one of the industry standards), but I'm guessing newer versions of the software handle it better, because I see little to no complaints about it now.
Premier should be handling most any properly formatted temporally-compressed video. Problems can arise if the keyframe distance is too great (common in camcorder outputs), or if they've simply cheaped out and aren't using a licensed compression format. A good video codec takes years to perfect, and these camcorder makers often take shortcuts to save a buck or two.
Final thought: If you're using Windows, check the system tray to see if any odd icons appear when you play the video through Windows Media Player, or when the camcorder video is placed on the timeline. It may come down to the decoder you have on your specific machine that's running the video. If your camcorder came with a utility disc, you might install it, which could also install a more appropriate decoder for the video format produced by the camcorder. That decoder will have a higher "merit" for playing the camcorder videos, so your system will automatically select it whenever you play or edit one of those videos.
-- Gordon
quicktime pro for windows is IDEAL for transcoding .
I use the mac version all the time
its the best $80 you will spend ..
Me I use FCP and compressor . I have yet to have a issue with wonky codecs.....
I export My vids as a MPEG 4 and I use a obscene high bit rate and I use at full rez but at 15 FPS ( its for you tube you will never know the difference to most ) and really this forces the CODEC as a file but not for size ..
I can get darn close to HDV Quality at ~%25 file size ..
Peter
Sorry... I just couldn't let that slide.
WMV is poorly supported on the Mac, with Apple letting others offer the solution. It's part of the Mac mantra, I suppose.
WMV is often maligned, but if you know how to deal with it -- and understand that WMV is but a container that supports many types of video and audio payloads -- and work with it under Windows, it provides a lot of advantages. I often use WMV with VC-1 codec (WMV9 Advanced, the same used in Blu-Ray) as an interchange. It works well because when transcoding with matching bitrates the Windows Media Encoder will do stream copies. Even when effects are added, like titles, the encoder re-uses much of the original compression without decompressing and recompressing. Rather than a full generation the copy is only a marginal generation, with limited added artifacts.
No WMV codec is designed for non-linear editing, so the editor can be sluggish when you move through the timeline, and when the keyframe distance is more than one or two per second. I wouldn't use it if you're doing a lot of recomposition of each frame, but it works well for trimming, adding title overlays, redubbing, that sort of thing.
-- Gordon
AKA not worth it.
( funny I am leaving apple in a few years to use Just Linux)Cause the apps price is now a Moot point .
Peter
Next problem, though: M-JPEG only goes up to 30FPS, I need 60. What the next best idea for a codec?
The only other ones I ran into that do over 30FPS are the MPEG4 codecs....
EDIT: But it appears premiere is OK with MSMPEG4V2 ... so I guess I'll use that for now.