Upgrading from the BS2
I am planning on getting the Propeller as an upgrade from the BS2, but unfortunately there are so many different Props I do not know what to get, but I think I have limited it down to four options:
The 40 pin DIP
http://www.parallax.com/Store/Microcontrollers/PropellerChips/tabid/142/ProductID/332/List/1/Default.aspx?SortField=ProductName,ProductName
The PropStick USB
http://www.parallax.com/StoreSearchResults/tabid/768/List/0/SortField/4/ProductID/411/Default.aspx?txtSearch=prop+stick
The Propeller Demo Board
http://www.parallax.com/StoreSearchResults/tabid/768/txtSearch/propeller/List/0/SortField/4/ProductID/340/Default.aspx
Or, so I don't have to learn a new programming language, the Stamp 2px
http://www.parallax.com/StoreSearchResults/tabid/768/txtSearch/stamp/List/0/SortField/4/catpageindex/3/ProductID/392/Default.aspx
Please tell me which one you think I should buy. Thank you.
The 40 pin DIP
http://www.parallax.com/Store/Microcontrollers/PropellerChips/tabid/142/ProductID/332/List/1/Default.aspx?SortField=ProductName,ProductName
The PropStick USB
http://www.parallax.com/StoreSearchResults/tabid/768/List/0/SortField/4/ProductID/411/Default.aspx?txtSearch=prop+stick
The Propeller Demo Board
http://www.parallax.com/StoreSearchResults/tabid/768/txtSearch/propeller/List/0/SortField/4/ProductID/340/Default.aspx
Or, so I don't have to learn a new programming language, the Stamp 2px
http://www.parallax.com/StoreSearchResults/tabid/768/txtSearch/stamp/List/0/SortField/4/catpageindex/3/ProductID/392/Default.aspx
Please tell me which one you think I should buy. Thank you.
Comments
I would definitely encourage you to learn SPIN. It will do you a great service in the long run.
Tough call. I started with a demo board (don't think it was that one), and I quickly moved to the DIP.
There is always the Professional Development Board: http://www.parallax.com/StoreSearchResults/tabid/768/txtSearch/propeller/List/0/SortField/4/catpageindex/2/ProductID/515/Default.aspx
I think you could start with the DIP (if you are comfortable with some breadboard hardware assembly). Just keep in mind, you'll need a few more discrete parts to go along with the Prop (EEPROM, regulator, crystal, capacitors -- both filter and decoupling), and you'll need a PropPlug,
That said, after you have played with the Demo Board for a couple of months, maybe less, you will want a Propeller Professional Development Board to do larger projects. Then you will want a Proto Board to do dedicated projects after you mock things up on the PPDB.
Start with the Demo board, then budget for MUCH more later on!
If you are leaning towards the PropStick, then the Propeller Education Kit might fit the bill:
http://www.parallax.com/StoreSearchResults/tabid/768/txtSearch/PEK/List/0/SortField/4/ProductID/506/Default.aspx
I got my start with the Propeller from a DemoBoard that I got from UPEW a few years ago. It was by far the easiest way for me because I learn by hacking. It was very easy to load various programs into the demoboard, watch them work, then start tweaking code to see the changes immediately. After building numerous projects on my demoboard, I bought a Propeller Professional Development Board because I intended on making many propeller based projects. The PPDB enables me to build a project quickly, test it out, and make headway with code before I start building the final project from a Protoboard, GG Propeller Platform board, one of my M44D40+ modules, or on a piece of perfboard.
On that note, don't forget the USB Protoboard, the Gadget Gangster Propeller Platform board (or the startup kit which is still only $79.99), and the Propeller Education Kit. I am working a small startup kit from my M44D40+ module and a PowerTwig for $25. Add in a breadboard and a prop-plug, and you are ready to start using the Propeller.
Also, there are other threads with basically the same question, so you may want to search the forums for more insight as to what people's opinions are on starting with the Propeller.
- $20
- powered from USB port (no extra external power to just "play")
- 8 buttons
- 8 LEDs
- all 40 pins brought out to a 40 pin female connector
- small
- did I mention $20???
You only get access to 16 of the I/O pins, but I think it's the best, most cost-effective (??) intro to the Propeller, especially for anyone making the transition from the BASIC Stamp.
http://www.parallax.com/StoreSearchResults/tabid/768/List/0/SortField/4/ProductID/448/Default.aspx?txtSearch=spin+stamp
I think that sales jumped when they lowered the price.
As it is, you'll have to get a PropClip, too.
If you're handy enough you can solder a right-angle SIP header and use a PropPlug (that's what I do.)
The Quickstart is a perfect platform. Us oldies tend to forget the new stuff, just relate to the stuff we have on our bench.
@PJ
Yes, now that you wrestled the marketing dept down to $29.99, (my personal thanks for that!), it is a viable solution for upgrading to the Propeller. 16 I/O's available.
Be sure to *upgrade* your mindset with your microprocessor. The BS2 -- a wonderful piece of gear -- is single-threaded, hence forces us to think in a singular, linear fashion. Not so with the Propeller, and this is the biggest hurdle BS2-to-Propeller transitions run into. Do yourself a favor: keep the logic you learned with the BS2 in place, but leave the programming style behind and learn the Propeller as-is. Yes, there is a BS2 object that one would think is helpful; in my opinion, it just slows one's ultimate progress toward taking real advantage of the Propeller's horsepower.
Do you have a specific project in mind you want to realise?
Do you want to learn SPIN first before starting specific projects?
If you have a specific project does it need simple digital IO-pins to switch on/off things or are you doing something more complex?
What's the level of your knowledge about electronics - beginner / medium / professional?
Does 50 dollars more or less matter or not?
Do you mind soldering some through-hole-parts together on a "dot-matrix" PCB ?
Some advantages/disadvantages
If you damage a Prop-Stick $50 are gone. If you damage a DIP40 just $8 are gone.
me personally I started with a a bare DIP40, EEPROM, chrystal MAX2333 and a standard USBtoRS232 converter
So I started with spending $25
First all connected on a breadboard, then all soldered together on a "dot-matrix"-PCB
This board is still working fine. If you assemble hardware-extensions on small breadboards you can store them on the shelf and don't have to rip the components of each time you want to try something new.
keep the questions coming
best regards
Stefan
I have no specific project in mind, but I would like at least 16 I/O pins because if I want to use a parallel quad digit display that takes around 10 pins.
Can I learn SPIN as I do projects? (Like the What's a Microprocessor book)
I think my level of electronics it quite high. I know all about some of those crazy Analog Digital ICs, heck once, before I had the BS2, I built an 8-bit infrared remote with a few comparators and a ton of NAND gates with all CMOS logic. But, my knowledge of microprocessors and micro controllers is not too high; all I know is how to program is the BS2.
I'd say my max dollar amount for a micro is around $100
I am not the greatest solderer for wires and I think the 0.1 in spacing in DIPs is too close for me to solder without soldering the leads together.
@MindRobots What is the flaw in the quickstart that makes it $20, what is it missing?
No flaw, it's a low-cost marketing tool designed to make it easy for engineers to try the Propeller wit low or no (for qualifies pros) investment.
which features the GadgetGangster Propeller Platform USB ($50). This card has a lot of features built in and is offered in 3 different packages from Parallax. The book is a good intro to Propeller Programming and has a lot of good examples, projects and code examples.
The PE-Kit (either version) is a good starting package. You get to build EVERYTHING from scratch! All the Propeller documentation and software is available online from Parallax. The OBEX is full of code examples (reading other's code is good once you get the basics under your hat).
JonnyMac has a great series of Propeller based articles and projects in Nuts & Volts (The Spin Zone) - and available on the Parallax site.
Resources abound!!! Once you understand the hardware layout of the platform you end up with, most of the software can be adjusted (pin numbers) to work on it.
Too many choices can be a good thing or a bad thing. Don't be paralyzed by analysis.
For $20 -$100 you can be learning the Prop - a quantum leap beyond the BS2.
Now, get out there and play and learn!!!
Something like that
http://www.reichelt.de/Lochraster-Loetpunkte/H25PR160/index.html?;ACTION=3;LA=444;GROUP=C931;GROUPID=3372;ARTICLE=8272;START=0;SORT=artnr;OFFSET=100;SID=15YYoUvtS4AQ8AAG3eavQ8bb72a2d5a9813a1ea1edd6ed9b9c869
All holes are separated from each other. After one hour of practice you know how to do it without connecting leads together.
Kits with solder-stop are even easier to solder as the name says it. All parts of the pcb except the wholes are covered with a special film "solder-stop"
that does not attract fluid solder.
If you solder sockets for all chips you can't overheat the chips and they are easy to change.
keep the questions coming
best regards
Stefan
The micro needs to have an extensive manual of it with projects showing new concepts, I would like if the micro has at least 32 bytes of RAM, at least 16 kilobytes of EEPROM or some other type of non-volatile memory, at least 16 I/O pins, under $100 for all of the parts needed to make it work, and please not surface mount.
RAM
minimum requirement 32 bytes (I guess 32 variables) Propeller-Chip 32-thousand bytes organised as longs (32bits = 4 bytes each meaning you have space for 8-thousand variables
EEPROM minimum requirement16 kB. Propeller 32 kB very easy to extent up to 64kB
IO-pins: minimum requirement16 IO-pins: Propeller 16 to 32 IO-pins. depending on the board
Gadget Gangster Propeller Platform (Kit) $35, Prop-plug $15, Powersupply stabilised 7.5V 1000 mA $10 Summary $60 to get started
the kit is easy to solder
advantage easy to change DIP40 Propeller-Chip
If you prefer a preassembled board
gadget gangster Propeller Platform USB $50 Powersupply stabilised 7.5V 1000 mA $10 Summary $60 to get started
advantage: SD-card-socket USB-to-serial converter integrated into the board.
or the quickstart board $25 out of stock at the moment
http://www.parallax.com/tabid/768/txtSearch/quickstart/List/0/SortField/4/Default.aspx
To start experimenting with additional hardware proces start at 10 cents for a simple LED and end at $xxx depending on what you want to do
there is the manual with code example and the PE Kit labs.
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?89958-Propeller-Education-Kit-Labs-Tools-and-Applications
I guess you should take time and read some chapters to be able if you find it understandable
to know it for real you have to buy and try
keep the questions coming
best regards
Stefan
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?131530-Parallax-Semiconductor-backs-Gadget-Gangster-as-a-standard-platform&highlight=Gangster
When you come back to ask for help, you just mention that you have the GG board and then everyone knows that they can take all of the non-standard (cheapskate-kluge) considerations (maybe it's this or that, the power, wiring, decoupling, crystal, ad nauseam) off the table.
You seem to want an easy to use complete package like the Stamps. The closest equivalents include the SpinStamp+PropClip which has 16 I/O pins available plus 3 more to sort of work like the Stamp's built-in serial port. Because this runs off 3.3V rather than the 5V of the Stamps, it's not strictly compatible with some RS232 serial ports which is why Parallax doesn't claim that it works. I've not had problems using it with Parallax's USB to serial (RS232) adapter. The 2nd close equivalent is the USB PropStick.
Both the SpinStamp+PropClip and the USB PropStick include a 32K EEPROM for program storage and a crystal (10MHz and 5MHz respectively). All you need to use them is a USB cable and a 5 to 9V power source.
The QuickStart board is a better deal. You can power it off USB and it includes the USB adapter. It's not a tiny module like the Stamps although it is pretty small and way cheaper than either of the above choices. It has an extra 32K of EEPROM and will be used as the basis for future projects, application notes and hardware add-ons.
Note: The BS2 can only do variables up to a word in size, but with complicated coding you can use two word-sized variables to act as a large 32-bit variable.
The Propeller also has a floating point library that lets you do single precision floating point at a very reasonable speed (a few microseconds per operation).