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My BIGGEST regret concerning the Propeller with various other subjects — Parallax Forums

My BIGGEST regret concerning the Propeller with various other subjects

idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,197
edited 2011-07-14 12:40 in Propeller 1
Hello Everyone

I am sure you are all just dying to know what it is, so I will tell you.

It always seems that I am out of something that I desparately need to get the Propeller working!

A while back I purchased a handful of Parallax OEM products (BS2 and Propeller), some 40 DIP Prop chips, a fair selection of ICs, etc... And just when I am having one of my creative moments and start rolling up my sleeves, I discover that I need a specific voltage regulator, EEPROM, crystal, resonator....

It never fails.

And these items are not that expensive!

Take my advice and always stock plenty of voltage regulators, crystals, resonators, and EEPROM.

Place your order today with Parallax :)

Bruce

EDITED
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Comments

  • ctwardellctwardell Posts: 1,716
    edited 2011-07-09 09:56
    Bruce,

    When it comes to low cost parts I always apply the idea of "Why buy one when you can buy two at twice the price."

    I usually do that with chips I've never used before if the cost isn't too bad, that way a backup is handy should you let out the magic smoke.

    C.W.
  • JonnyMacJonnyMac Posts: 9,208
    edited 2011-07-09 10:03
    The subject line is misleading. Voltage regulators, crystals, and other support components are not unique to the Propeller. You seem to want to be friendly to Parallax, Bruce; if that's the case, change the subject line so that those that don't read the thread are not duped into thinking there is a problem with the Propeller itself.
  • Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
    edited 2011-07-09 10:09
    @Idbruce,

    Been there... Ran out of 5v regulators on a weekend project.. Had to go to Radio Shack to get them.. no big deal. except.

    I took some company with me (spouse) on the trip.. Bath and Body is ALWAYS next door to Radio Shack.

    End of the day.. 5v regulators that cost around $50 a piece. :):)

    Moral of the story: Always stock up when you can to avoid costly weekend trips.

    {It's sarcasm honey! really!... gotta go.. } - OBC
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,197
    edited 2011-07-09 12:02
    @Jeff

    WOW! That sure was some expensive regulators! I guess Radio Shack was out of stock, so you had to get them at Bath and Body. Don't you just hate that, they have such a huge mark up on their electrical components.

    Bruce
  • HumanoidoHumanoido Posts: 5,770
    edited 2011-07-09 12:17
    Bruce, I like to plan as many of my projects as possible and pick up all the required components at the same time. I have the best luck when studying component values and requirements, such as the LED dropping resistor, protection resistor, LED type, crystal, eeprom, decoupling capacitors and other components. Then I make a trip to the parts store and get several hundred or half a thousand of each and barter to get the price down. It's always a hit and miss because sometimes you have good luck and can find what you want and some days you're better off shopping for pants. You know it could be a pants day or a shirt day - maybe a good Chi day. You can also go through the PEK book and see what you need for all the experiments.
  • StefanL38StefanL38 Posts: 2,292
    edited 2011-07-09 14:38
    I want to come back on the thread title

    Bruce could you please explain what exactly do you regret concerning the propeller??

    best regards

    Stefan
  • Don MDon M Posts: 1,653
    edited 2011-07-09 15:04
    I just wasted 30 seconds of my time here on this thread....
  • ctwardellctwardell Posts: 1,716
    edited 2011-07-09 15:43
    Could be that Bruce is referring to needing those items in addition to the Prop chip as opposed to the all-in-one flavor of the Basic Stamps.

    Maybe the title is appropriate, maybe it isn't, but is it REALLY a big deal.

    Maybe it's the summer heat, but it sure seams like the lack of civility on here is running pretty high lately.

    C.W.
  • schillschill Posts: 741
    edited 2011-07-09 15:57
    I usually handle that by buying "up" when I order. If I need one part from Digikey but there's a good price drop for 10, I buy 10. That way the parts are around when I need them. This is only for parts that aren't too obscure.

    Of course, things like resistors are much cheaper by the 100 or 200 so I always have plenty of those around.
  • zoopydogsitzoopydogsit Posts: 174
    edited 2011-07-09 16:35
    For any processor you will need some kind of time base (XTAL, resonator/etc), you will need to provide it with it's required voltages (1.8/ 2.8 / 3.3 / 5v / etc), and various support components (ie. supression caps) etc.

    We should consider ourselves lucky, I remember the "good old days" building 8bit micros (8080s, Z80s, 6809s). These needed a lot more support components. Depending on what you were doing you often needed power supplies that had +12, +5V, -5V and -12V. Which prevented an "evening's hack" that you can do with modern microcontrollers. Until recently I still had bags of 2708's, 16, 32,64 eproms, 4K stating and 64K dynamic ram, CTC's and PIOs. Fortunately I have a friend that is still into the older processors so I was able to pass them on to a better life.

    I usually use the buying mantra - where my time is far more important than a couple of bucks buying a few more. Cheap components like voltage regulators I'll normally buy 10 or more at a time. Resistors & caps by the hundreds. When I need to buy 1 Prop1A, I'll buy 10. As it's cheaper (on my time) to have them on hand than have to make an extra trip or wait for a delivery. The only downside is that over time I have excess of parts that I'll unlikely use as technology moves on. However I can always use an LM317 to make an adjustable voltage regulator.

    In regards to the title of this thread, I too throught it to be something else. My only regret with the Prop is that it wasn't available 30 years ago when I had near infinite time to do all of the things I can think that I'd like to do with it! The only thing I'd like to improve would be to have the Prop1B, all those extra pins could really do some interesting things. I like the idea of the PropII being able to boot from an SD card! That's a brilliant idea!
  • MicrocontrolledMicrocontrolled Posts: 2,461
    edited 2011-07-09 16:54
    For some reason I always seem to run out of parts indirectly related to the Propeller (the only exception being Xtals). I was always running out of 10k resistors, 40 pin sockets, 8 pin sockets, Video DAC resistors, PS/2 connectors, etc. Fortunately, I learned it's best to stock up and bought 100 of each resistor, 20 of each socket, and 1000 PS/2 connectors. I did this 6 months ago (except for the PS/2 connectors) and haven't run out since!
    The total now for my annual "restock bill" is about $20 including shipping, for the parts listed above + LEDs, pushbuttons, etc. I usually order from Tayda electronics; they aren't the fastest, but you can't beat 1 cent per resistor!
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,197
    edited 2011-07-09 17:12
    Hello Everyone

    And thanks for all the responses, good and bad. :)

    Okay so my headline may be a tad deceptive, but it is a still a regret pertaining to the Propeller. Believe me when I say that I truly regret that I do not have all the proper parts to get a new Propeller application up and running. :(

    I also try to buy extra parts when I can, but it never seems to be the right extras. Next time I place an order with Parallax, I will order equal amounts of the Propeller 40 DIP, 5Mhz crystal, 3.3 LDO regulators, SD card holders, and 32K EEPROM. I will also buy additional EEPROM just to have on hand and experiment with.

    The reason I started this thread was because I know we have all been there. It is true that I like to write and communicate, and there is nothing that can grab a persons attention better than the headline. For those that complain, well this is not the first time that I have used an improper headline, and it definitely won't be the last. But by now, some of you should know that. To the naysayers, I say don't read my posts.

    Anyhow I find just a little comfort knowing that I am not alone in this frustration :)

    Bruce
  • HShankoHShanko Posts: 402
    edited 2011-07-09 19:16
    Yep, Logistics is quite a task. And I find I never have all the 'right' parts; so comes to scrounge time usually if I want to keep moving ahead.
  • $WMc%$WMc% Posts: 1,884
    edited 2011-07-09 20:03
    Hello Bruce
    '
    I agree with Harley, Logistics is a pain."I just can't seem to think of every thing needed when I order parts"
    '
    I also think we've become so impatient, Having to what on parts sucks.
    '
    On a side note: Have you tried the 6.25MHz Xtals?...They add a nice little zing to the Prop.
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,197
    edited 2011-07-09 20:45
    Hey Walt

    How's it going?

    No, I have not tried the 6.25 MHZ crystals. However, I was just looking at them a little while ago. Contemplating my new order to get the parts I don't have :(

    I was wondering how much that would drive up my production capabilities.

    Bruce
  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2011-07-09 21:01
    As you may have noted before in others' comments, overclocking the Propeller requires some care in board design, particularly in how you route the power connections to the Propeller and where you mount the bypass capacitors (and how many you need). It's mostly common sense and good high frequency design considerations. Whether it will improve your throughput is a different question. When driving mechanical systems it's rarely the Propeller that's slowing things down.
  • $WMc%$WMc% Posts: 1,884
    edited 2011-07-09 21:07
    It cranks the Prop up to 100MHz. ( With no known heating or over-current issues )
    '
    I have found them very reliable.
    '
    It is also an easy number plug-in for the Propeller Tool and bst Editor/Complier.
    '
    I have a few 5MHz xtals, But I mostly stock 6.25MHz xtals.
    '
    I usually over-clock for displays LCDs,VGA, RGB, etc.
    '
    I try to start some regularity. The use of 6.25xtals is now my standard.
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,197
    edited 2011-07-09 21:13
    @Mike

    Yea I believe you are correct, especially in this instance. I believe I have pretty much pushed the machine to it's maximum capabilities, and I don't believe it is the Prop slowing things down. However I do believe I could increase production by learning PASM and rewriting my main production function for faster instruction processing. I also believe the overclocking issue is a bit over my head like the memory. I was thinking the 6.25Mhz would be a drop in replacement on the Proto Board.

    I have pushed the stepper drivers as far as the motors will let me, the only thing I could possibly hope for now is faster instruction processing, like I mentioned.

    Bruce
  • $WMc%$WMc% Posts: 1,884
    edited 2011-07-09 21:32
    Take a look at PropBasic.
    '
    http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?118611-Download-PropBASIC-here...-00.01.04
    '
    Its really fast. And you can learn PASM using it.
    '
    You need to down load " bst " to run PropBasic.
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,197
    edited 2011-07-09 21:46
    Thanks for the info Walt

    I downloaded the syntax manual and will take some time out to study it.

    Bruce
  • BigFootBigFoot Posts: 259
    edited 2011-07-10 18:24
    We are also always running out of something with the Prop 1 chip also, but it is
    usually speed, resources or memory :)...
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,197
    edited 2011-07-11 01:24
    @BigFoot - I can also relate to some of your problem. Those general I/O pins can get used up rather quickly if you are not careful, and I am not a big fan of populating my equipment and code with the support needed for a bunch of 595s. As for memory, well the only time I had a problem with that was when I saving a WAV file to EEPROM.

    However, you could always use the famous "board stretcher" to increase your resources :)

    Bruce
  • StefanL38StefanL38 Posts: 2,292
    edited 2011-07-11 04:40
    Those general I/O pins can get used up rather quickly if you are not careful, and I am not a big fan of populating my equipment and code with the support needed for a bunch of 595s
    so what do you suggest as a better solution?
    keep the questions coming
    best regards

    Stefan

    @$WMC%:
    Whats the number for 911 ?
    ahm - 42???
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,197
    edited 2011-07-11 05:34
    StefanL38

    I personally prefer adding another Propeller chip and using serial communication between them.

    Bruce
  • BigFootBigFoot Posts: 259
    edited 2011-07-11 18:32
    I think the Prop II will solve all of our problems. The Prop I is perfect for our low end products
    but we need the Prop II for the advanced terminals.
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,197
    edited 2011-07-11 19:18
    @BigFoot - If you don't mind me asking, what kind of products are you putting out?

    Bruce
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2011-07-11 20:42
    I agree with an earlier post that the title of this thread should be changed. The "regret" in question has nothing to do with the Propeller per se but, rather, with a propensity for a lack of planning -- that we all share -- when acquiring components for any project.

    Bruce, please change the title. It is somewhat misleading.

    Thanks,
    -Phil
  • BigFootBigFoot Posts: 259
    edited 2011-07-12 17:18
    idbruce,

    We make Point of Sale terminals and PAD's for school Cafeterias. Here is our latest Prop1 powered PoS terminal.

    http://hosted.verticalresponse.com/380953/8bc751fae8/1697506663/a76978ca7a/
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,197
    edited 2011-07-12 17:42
    @BigFoot

    WOW! I am impressed. That is very nice. Do you guys mold your own plastic in-house?

    Bruce
  • BigFootBigFoot Posts: 259
    edited 2011-07-12 18:21
    No, I design a 3D model of the cases in AutoCad and our manufacturer in China inputs
    this into there CAM software and designs the molds.

    We have the base plates made out in the valley close to our CM. They are made from stainless
    steel and the shipping from China on the heavy metal parts was really killing us.
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