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My new CNC machine, and why I've been so quiet lately — Parallax Forums

My new CNC machine, and why I've been so quiet lately

JasonDorieJasonDorie Posts: 1,930
edited 2011-09-25 22:25 in General Discussion
So as not to take over IDBruce's thread, I've moved this discussion here. I realize this is far off the path of Parallax products, but I also know there are folks on here that are into this kind of thing, so hopefully this isn't unwelcome.

I've spent the last month or so building a new CNC machine. I still have some last things to do, but it's basically up & running.

There's a public photo set on Facebook of the build here: The Machine's Big Brother

This machine replaces a smaller wooden one I built a couple years ago. It's made primarily of steel & aluminum, with some HDPE and MDF parts. It's a rack & pinion drive in X & Y allowing for rapid moves in excess of 900 inches per minute. It was built from plans purchased online.

I would also prefer that it didn't blow so much air down where it was cutting. You are quickly going to find that you are going to have dust everywhere unless you make some sort of dust collector around the bit. I also have some LEDs aimed at the bit so that I can see what is going on while cutting and to be able to properly set my Z depth.

Jack - I built an air deflector for mine that attaches to the bottom of the router to send the cooling air sideways instead of straight down. You can see it on my previous machine, here: Air Deflector. I also have an 800 cfm dust collection system with a 4" hose going straight from the cutting head, so hopefully that's not an issue. On my current machine I use a Mach3 script to set my Z height based on a small steel plate of known thickness. The tool head is moved downward until it makes contact with the plate, completing a circuit. Since the plate thickness is known (measured with calipers) you set the height to that value, and your zero is perfect - no eyeballing required. I still have to install limit switches on this one, and I plan to do the contact plate too.
Have you figured out what your backlash is? I stayed away from rack gear because I was worried about that since I knew that I would want really high precision.

I was in the same boat, but with properly seated & tensioned gears, the backlash is very low. Builders of this machine have gotten below 0.001" backlash, which is far more accurate than I'm likely to need. It'll also move about 8 times faster than my previous machine, and is significantly more powerful and rigid.

One final comment is that I had been having trouble finding router bits for smaller diameter cuts. Specifically, I wanted 1/16" cuts sometimes and the router bits that I was finding would be 1/16" in diameter but would be 1/4" inch long in their cutting length so they would snap off easily. A couple of weeks ago, I decided to try making some collets to use 3/8" and 1/8" diameter shank end mills. That has worked out great. Now I have all sorts of options to play with!

I found the 3D contour cutting bits from PreciseBits work really well: http://precisebits.com/products/carbidebits/taperedcarve250b4f.asp They're tapered, so not good for vertical walls, but perfect for detailed dimensional carving.

Comments

  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2011-07-08 12:59
    Congratulations! This has to rank as one of the most ambitious projects ever presented in the forum. What makes it especially cool is that you used the prior machine to make parts for the new one.

    -Phil
  • $WMc%$WMc% Posts: 1,884
    edited 2011-07-08 14:13
    Well done Jason
    '
    Could you posts some spec's.
    '
    Motor data:
    Motor Drivers:
    Etc.:
    '
    Before you have to get back to that dry-wall project in the back round.
    '
    Great work!!!
  • Jack BuffingtonJack Buffington Posts: 115
    edited 2011-07-08 14:52
    I'm using Mach3 as well. What is the script that you are using to set your Z? I didn't even know about that sort of functionality. That would be super handy. I have found that I have a conductive path from my bit to the chassis and have in the past used that to manually set the z-depth using conductive tape but that is a pain. Your way sounds a lot better. The fast rapid sounds great too. Mine can only go 80 inches per minute at top speed if I want to avoid issues with the steppers loosing sync sometimes. It is still quite useful but a fast rapid would cut down on my cutting times a lot on some parts I'll probably go with rack gear if I build another machine in the future.
  • JasonDorieJasonDorie Posts: 1,930
    edited 2011-07-08 15:07
    Details:

    - Software to produce GCode is VCarve Pro, MeshCAM, CamBam, others...
    - Motor Control Software is Mach3
    - Motors are 380 oz-in, 3.5A. One for each side of the Y axis, one on the X, and one on the Z
    - Motors are driven by a single Gecko G540 with a 48 volt 12.5A switched power supply
    - The rack & pinion system has a 3:1 toothed belt gear reduction from the stepper to the gear rack

    The machine itself is a steel welded base supporting 80/20 aluminum extrusion for the X & Y gantries with angle-iron from Home Depot as the rails. V-bearings are used throughout. The machine is roughly a 6' square, with a cutting area of 4' x 5' in XY, and about 5.5" in Z.

    The motor driver uses 10x micro stepping, so including the gear reduction you get 1908 steps per inch in X & Y. I currently have it set to do rapid moves at 900 inches per minute. It can go significantly faster than that, but it's already scary at that speed. :)

    I'm using a Hitachi MV12 router as the spindle. It's somewhat unique in that the variable speed controller in it attempts to maintain a constant speed, not constant power, so it won't slow down when cutting like so many others do. It's also much quieter than the Porter Cable I was using on my previous machine.
  • JasonDorieJasonDorie Posts: 1,930
    edited 2011-07-08 15:16
    Jack - I actually just use the "Home" key, and tell the machine to treat the touch plate as the limit switch for the Z axis. For the new machine, I'm going to use the method on this page: http://cockrum.net/cnc.html (about the 3rd post down)

    As for your rapids, are you losing steps for real, or is it resonance? My wooden machine rapids at about 160ipm using 5-TPI acme threads. I couldn't get even close to that before I added dampers to the motors. The G540 has resonance compensation built in, but if you're running a hobby board you may have to go a little more old-school, like this: http://solsylva.com/cnc/dampers.shtml

    They look a little funny, but they work amazingly well. My wooden machine will cut HDPE and MDF at 100ipm.
  • Jack BuffingtonJack Buffington Posts: 115
    edited 2011-07-11 15:42
    It could be a resonance thing. The result is that if I try to drive it too fast, the motor will stall out and just sit there and hum while the rest of the move is made. Then again, I am using 10 TPI lead screws since I was going for high precision and wanted to make sure that I could power through tougher materials. After using this for the past few years, I now think that I could probably get away with something like 5TPI and still have enough precision. Overall I am still really happy with my machine.

    For those reading this who are considering building their own CNC machine, you should know that a laptop is not a good choice to drive your machine. I tried a laptop at first and was getting only about 20 inches per minute at top speed. After a lot of head scratching and internet searching, I determined that something about the laptop's bios or chipset was optimized for low power consumption. This caused the pulses coming out of the parallel port to be uneven in their spacing which the stepper motors didn't like very much at all.
  • localrogerlocalroger Posts: 3,452
    edited 2011-07-11 17:34
    This is a very informative and inspirational thread.

    I am getting ready to build a small mill myself, but it will be very unusual for a very specific purpose. It's very interesting to see how the design compromises make other mills very inappropriate for the project I am attacking. You will eventually see it here, since it will be Parallax powered in more ways than you're likely to expect. But first I have to prove it works. As far as I am aware nobody has ever built a precision CNC mill to cut mumble mumble whatever.
  • JasonDorieJasonDorie Posts: 1,930
    edited 2011-07-11 18:16
    I look forward to it. Feel free to PM questions if you have them - I'm not exactly an expert, but this is my 2nd home-built mill so I have -some- experience. :)
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2011-07-11 18:56
    localroger wrote:
    ...nobody has ever built a precision CNC mill to cut mumble mumble whatever.
    Styrofoam? Butter? Granite? Diamonds? "Enquiring minds want to know!"TM

    -Phil
  • localrogerlocalroger Posts: 3,452
    edited 2011-07-11 19:05
    Styrofoam? Butter? Granite? Diamonds? "Enquiring minds want to know!"TM

    You could bet on this at the Hard Rock, but if you do don't take it for granite.
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2011-07-11 21:05
    When I was tiling my shower, I would've killed for a CNC tile cutter!

    -Phil
  • graffixgraffix Posts: 389
    edited 2011-07-11 21:48
    When I was tiling my shower, I would've killed for a CNC tile cutter!

    -Phil
    Very Funny!!!

    I used a indian slate,it was very brittle.Due to its layerd rock composition.So you cut some perfect and they would fall apart anyway.
  • prof_brainoprof_braino Posts: 4,313
    edited 2011-07-12 08:38
    Hi Jason

    You're having greater success and better progress than some of us.

    What would it take to have you cut parts for us? Of course, you would be paid for materials, set up time, cutting time, shipping, and some kind of mark up so it would be profitable.

    My guess is that you making parts would cost a lost less that the enineering shop in the industrial part, as they have much more expensive equipment and higher overhead, etc.

    Are you already doing this?
  • JasonDorieJasonDorie Posts: 1,930
    edited 2011-07-12 09:25
    Prof,

    I'm not already, but it was one of my goals in making the new machine, so if you have something you'd like made certainly feel free to contact me. I've still got some testing to do with this machine to verify it's square and cutting correctly, but so far everything appears to be right.
  • graffixgraffix Posts: 389
    edited 2011-07-12 09:40
    How much did you spend for all the materials,and software used in your design?
  • JasonDorieJasonDorie Posts: 1,930
    edited 2011-07-12 12:25
    $670 - motors, controller, power supply, wires
    $500 - the rack & pinion parts, gears, adapters
    $500 - assorted hardware (V bearings, Unistrut steel, Z-axis drive screw, anti-backlash nut, collet, bolts, washers, etc)
    $400 - steel for the base
    $250 - extruded aluminum beams
    $200 - Hitachi router & aluminum mount

    So the hardware probably comes in between $2500 - $3000. I'm sure I'm missing something, but that sounds about right. You could do it cheaper by sourcing things 2nd hand (I wasn't trying to save money) or go significantly more expensive, if you wanted to beef it up.

    Software I had already for the most part, though I did buy Vectric V-Carve Pro. I had Cut2D before and was quite happy with it, and they offer an upgrade path. I've been very happy with their software.

    The software I had from my previous machine: Mach3 (controller) - $175. MeshCAM - $175. Cut2D - $150. You could use EMC as the machine controller for free (it runs on Linux), but I chose Mach3 because it runs in Windows.

    To be clear, this isn't my design - I made it from plans available at http://www.joescnc.com The plans are $100 and come with access to a support forum for other builders of the machine. There's a wealth of knowledge in there - lots of people have modded the machine to different sizes, there's a cast aluminum version available, various options for making it more rigid, and so on. The design is solid and it's well supported in the forums. Kinda like the Stamp & Propeller. :)
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,197
    edited 2011-08-09 14:59
    Jason

    Have not seen you in the forums for a while. How is everything working out?

    Bruce
  • GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,366
    edited 2011-08-09 16:54
    If I win the lottery this week I'm buying this the next day:

    http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=25376

    My current machine, which is a Frankenstein CNC (not quite homebew, not quite store-bought), is considerably smaller.
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,197
    edited 2011-08-09 16:58
    @GordonMcComb

    You could build one heck of a homebrew machine for the price of that one. Just my point of view.

    Bruce
  • JasonDorieJasonDorie Posts: 1,930
    edited 2011-08-10 09:34
    Gordon - mine cost about $2500, but I wasn't making any attempt to save money. Theirs has the added value of the software, which will bring the price of mine up another $900, but mine is over 2x the cutting area and will be many times faster. On the other hand, not everyone will want or need a machine this big. The shark looks like a good deal, honestly.

    Bruce - the machine is running really well. I've been doing relatively small stuff with it so far, but have a few larger projects planned. I'm very happy with how it turned out. The Facebook album I posted earlier is public and gets updated as I build new stuff if anyone is curious.
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,197
    edited 2011-08-10 09:37
    Jason

    I forgot all about that facebook page... I will have to check it out later today. Of course I am curious.

    Bruce
  • JasonDorieJasonDorie Posts: 1,930
    edited 2011-08-10 09:51
    So far I've done an edge-lit acrylic sign, the base for a bedside table / lamp project (it's the thing that looks like a mini skyscraper), and the gears and faceplate for the prop controlled etch-a-sketch. I have some delrin sheets waiting for me when I get back home (I'm at SigGraph this week) so I can cut a new body for my quad rotor.

    I'm playing with different materials to get a feel for cutting speeds, but I have a pretty good handle on it already. If anyone wants parts cut for a project, it is now officially for hire - PM me.
  • JasonDorieJasonDorie Posts: 1,930
    edited 2011-09-25 03:20
    So as not to take over other's threads, here's my latest CNC project - Artistic photos done with my CNC machine and a couple pieces of software I wrote:

    Check out the photos around this one:
    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150377152963973&l=412486409f

    Video of the process:
  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 18,069
    edited 2011-09-25 03:54
    Wow, really impressed!!!
  • Jay KickliterJay Kickliter Posts: 446
    edited 2011-09-25 05:19
    Jason, pretty awesome. I'm curious, how to cut out a floating piece? Not sure what it's actually called, but where you'll be left with no support on any of the sides when it's done?.

    Also, I saw your photos. What part did you have to weld? I've made that mistake before. Especially with TIG; it's so quiet and clean it's easy to think "I can weld this small piece real quick and get away with short sleeves".
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,197
    edited 2011-09-25 06:37
    Very nice Jason and thanks for the video. Makes me want to finish 3 axis machine :)
  • JasonDorieJasonDorie Posts: 1,930
    edited 2011-09-25 20:15
    Jay - For a piece that will be completely cut through you either leave tabs in place to connect it to the material being cut and remove them later by hand, attach the piece from below with screws through an area you know won't be cut, use double-sided carpet tape to hold it to the bed of the machine, or you can use a vacuum hold. Any of them work. I generally use tabs, but I have a vacuum box that I use when cutting circuit boards - they're too thin to effectively clamp down.

    I had to weld the base of the machine together - it's all 2" square steel. The weight helps absorb the momentum of the cutting head as it moves around.
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2011-09-25 20:43
    Jason,

    I'm totally in awe of what you've accomplished with this project. Congrats on a job well done!

    -Phil
  • ElectricAyeElectricAye Posts: 4,561
    edited 2011-09-25 22:25
    That's amazing.
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