Netbook for hosting prop development?

prof_braino

Whats the smallest cheapest netbook you've used for hosting development on the prop?

Did it work out or did you find issues?

I found this for $200 US

http://www.norhtec.com/products/gecko/index.html

Any insights or suggestions?

bozo

i bought one a couple of years ago, but found that I hated the keyboard
so much I couldn't use it ... keys too close & hard to read
and because the keys are so close, you keep tapping the wrong one
unless you look at the keyboard when you type ...

smbaker

The smallest I've used is a small laptop, a toshiba M305 (14" display). I'm considering picking up a netbook myself, mainly for traveling where battery capacity would be a benefit. My research so far shows Acer and Asus to be among the more popular brands of netbook. Like Bozo, I'm a little concerned the small keyboard might make such a device a pain to use.

I also have some concerns about the capabilities of the atom CPU. I'm able to use VMWare to run Linux inside of Windows on the little toshiba, but it sports a core 2 duo ad 4gb of RAM. I don't know that the atom would be as capable. Probably would have to resort to dual-boot and/or just ditch the windows altogether and go Linux native.

I think it all depends on your requirements. If you're looking for something specifically for travel, then the netbooks are a popular choice. If it's something to be used primarily at home on a desk, then go with something larger and more capable. Your fingers and your eyes will thank you for it.

Humanoido

prof_braino wrote: »

Whats the smallest cheapest netbook you've used for hosting development on the prop?
Did it work out or did you find issues?
I found this for $200 US
http://www.norhtec.com/products/gecko/index.html
Any insights or suggestions?

This looks like a copy of the ASUS EEE PC, with some odd differences.

My experiences with the original eee pc are interesting. The keyboard and track pad is challenging. It's a simple matter to plug in a full size USB keyboard and it works great. For loading prop code, the small keyboard works fine.

The display is small, which has many advantages of physical size, but the characters are very fine and small, so you'll need to sit close and maybe wear reading glasses to help ease eye strain. It has a VGA port but I didn't try connecting a larger monitor.

8 hours of portability is really great. The computer is not designed as a power house and it chugs on some video and some web sites. But that's not a problem when using the computer to support props and navigate the well designed Parallax web pages.

It runs on solid state drives. They are small and the C drive can fill up quickly. So you can't install any of the Windows upgrades or much software, or the machine will run out of drive space. The simple solution is to install minimal software into the D drive, and supplement with a 16G SD card.

ASUS offers a free program that automatically puts C-Drive installs on the D drive. I also occasionally use a USB external drive for massive storage access. Plus I have a bag full of Flash Drive memory sticks which work great!

It was originally $279. It's a good investment. It helped when my main PC crashed. I like the way it runs Windows or LINUX. I keep it on Windows for compatibility with Parallax Propeller products and software, even though I'm absolutely not a fan of Windows but I am a great fan of Parallax!

For loading spin programs it works great. The Parallax Propeller Software Tool works perfect along with the PST. I even use BST with this to load binaries.

I have now added this computer to the Big Brain project as a support computer. It sets on the Big Brain Containment Rack, in current compartment #5. It's just the right size and the display can fully open for work.

It boots up fast (20 seconds) and shuts down fast. It works well with a USB mouse. I installed graphics draw programs and even Google PICASA but the screen is on the small side and lots of patience is required for any large tasks.

My experiences with this computer are positive and it works well for its current designated purpose to support loading Propeller chip programs and downloading code from the Parallax web pages as part of the Big Brain which currently has over 100 props.

http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?124495-Fill-the-Big-Brain&p=1011100&viewfull=1#post1011100
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?124495-Fill-the-Big-Brain


The white object at the bottom is the EEE PC computer dedicated to supporting the Big Brain.
See post 1019 on page 51 for more information
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?124495-Fill-the-Big-Brain/page51

localroger

I actively use one of the newer Asus EEEPC's (with real hard drive) and it works fine. It was their current bottom of the line unit about a year ago with the four hour rated battery pack, and cost $249 from Best Buy.

I'm not sure what the situation is now with netbooks. I believe Microsoft is requiring them to ship with 7 now, and I'm not sure whether the version of 7 shipped with netbooks is as capable as XP. Running Linux is not an option for me because I have to support 20 years of legacy VB apps and several Windows only proprietary development systems for products I support in addition to new work.

I usually use it with an external keyboard, mouse, and second monitor, but I don't hesitate to unplug all the cables and use it as-is in the field. I find the keyboard very well thought out and typable despite its small size. I don't care much for the mouse pad, mainly because it has an odd rough texture that I find annoying, so I carry a travel mouse. It's running XP and has never has no issues with the PropTool or FTDI drivers. It is the first computer with which I ever accomplished any actual useful work on an airplane.

The Norhtec product is intriguing. I like the standard AA batteries. (I try to find cameras that use AA's too, that can really save your bacon in a field situation, such as camping or traveling in the third world, where there might be long periods without power.) The relatively slow low-power CPU should not affect applications like the PropTool and BST. However, it appears that the $199 version ships with Linux, which is understandable because of the Windows tax. While it might run XP it's not apparent how you could get a copy to run on it. And their commerce site doesn't tell you the prices of any of the other products, which is extremely weird.

Tor

I looked with interest at the first Asus eee, but immediately found that I couldn't use it when I tried the keyboard. I touch-type and if the keyboard it substantially smaller than standard it turns out it's extremely awkward to use for me. I'm on the lookout for a netbook myself, and it looks like the 10"-10.1" netbooks are the smallest I can use because they are large enough to allow nearly full-size keyboards. But the screen size itself is also something I have to worry about because my close-focus isn't great anymore.

-Tor

Forrest

I've used an Acer 8.9 inch Atom based Netbook running Windows XP for 3 years - works fine. The trackpad is a little on the small side, but I adjusted to the slightly smaller keyboard in no time.

FYI I saw the video of the NorhTec computer a few years ago. Not sure if it ever went on sale, so I stuck with the more common Atom based netbook.
Newegg is selling an Atom based netbook very similar to mine (without Windows) for $199 new http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834220910

Bean

I recently purchased an Acer Aspire 1430Z-4677 and I love it.
11.6" screen is small, but it is not too small. And it is a standard resolution of 1366x768.
It weights just under 3 pounds.
Battery life is good.
The keyboard is regular size.
The touchpad is quite small though.
It sells for about $389 on amazon with 3G RAM, 320G hard drive and a dual core processor.

It gets the "Bean" seal of approval.

Bean

w4fej

I use a Gateway netbook that I got for FREE from Verizon when I renewed my broadband contract and use it with the Prop Pro Dev board and it works great. The battery life is amazing. I can throw it and the prop board in my brief case with the user manual and I'm off to the races wherever I am.

Mike B.

Oldbitcollector (Jeff)

I bought a 10.2" MSI about two years ago..

It works fine for development, but I too have issues with the keyboard (and screen) being too small for any real Prop development time.

It's the PERFECT laptop for travel when I go to shows, but I'm actually thinking of picking up one of those disposable laptops that Walmart has started to carry. They are about the same price as a netbook, but with larger screen and keyboard. The lower system resources aren't a problem for a Propeller developer as we don't require much to do what we do. (At least in my case)

OBC

icepuck

My niece got a netbook for her birthday and it came with win7 starter. I had to upgrade it to win7 home premium because starter couldn't connect to a network printer I have. In order for it to be usable I turned off most of the fancy effects and eye candy.
I have a Dell Mini 10v I upgraded to 2gb of memory about the time win7pro beta came out and it made win7pro usable.
If you have to have a netbook with windows Google to see if the model you are looking at can be upgraded to 2gb, then upgrade windows.
Some netbooks can't be upgraded, in the case of my Mini I had to totally disassemble it to remove the mother board because the sodimm was on the bottom side. There is no access cover on the bottom side which would have made the upgrade easier.
-dan

Cluso99

My mate just bought an Acer Netbook (10"?). It came with dual boot Windows 7 and Android. I would be sure it would work for prop development. Cost A$249 retail from Officeworks I think (Australia). We had the wifi working and were able to surf the web using both Android and Windows 7. IIRC 1.5GHz Atom, 1GB memory, 150GB H/D.

jeff-o

Are you trying to solve the issue of price or portability? If it's an issue of price, see if you can find a good used full-size laptop. Even an old WinXP unit will have plenty of power for development, and will have a larger screen and keyboard, too.

Martin_H

I use an old Windows XP laptop with 630 MB of ram, 40 GB HD, and an early model Pentium 4. It works fine and almost any netbook has more power than it. The one area where it is better than a net book is the screen which is quite large. It's a beater, but it was free. You can pick up some nice used core 2 laptops off eBay for not much money.

mindrobots

I'm heading off for a week's vacation with my Acre Aspire One D255 which I just loaded up with Propeller Tool, Tera Term and Crimson Editor. It passed all the basic test so now it's packed in its little foam netbook holder with a QuickStart card. We'll find out how well it works. The biggest draw back to these little guys to me is the memory.

I have an older one that got a memory upgrade and a reload of Ubuntu. It runs great now but was always disappointing with 1GB and Windows. I've got the memory for the new one but it's major surgery to update it. After a week of using it, I'll see if surgery is the only option.

EDIT: I just looked at the specs for the Norhtec. It seems underpowered for today's current common denominator for Netbooks. Typically, you;re looking at a 1.5GHz Dual-core Atom processor and 1GB of memory with a 160GB (or larger) drive with Windows 7. The Norhtec offers much less than this. I stumbled across mine for $198 at Wal-mart there are deals out there if you shop around.

Gone fishin'

Cluso99

I am prety sure the Acer was a 1.5GHz dual core Atom processor. BTW it also came with a nice padded carry pouch. Great for the price and nice and small.

My alternative would be a tablet. Perhaps a cheap Android off eBay. A 7" can be had for ~$80. Usually android 2.2 or even 1.6. A 10" is ~$150 IIRC.

potatohead

I'm using a now old Core 2 Thinkpad. Nice machine, great display, kind of pricy new, but maybe really cheap now. Don't know. T60 T60p. The bigger battery runs a long time, maybe 3 hours. Display is 1600 x 1080. It's a work computer taken out of service because it's too slow now. The software got fatter.

I've a really old Dell Insperion 8600. Works great for Prop stuff. Those things should be very cheap now, watch out for backlight failures on older machines though. Not too big of a deal to replace one, but something to think about.

The HP AMD entertainment PC's are pretty good too. I've one of those scrounged together too, mostly from a few that died, each suffering a different cause. Anyway, those are somewhat big, but offer reasonable batteries and are fast enough to do video capture. The old Dell machine really isn't, BTW.

My ancient Pentium desktop works for Prop dev just fine. Don't surf the modern web with it though, LOL!! It's a 300Mhz machine, kind of crappy all around, but running XP seems to work just fine for development.

I don't think one needs all that much, unless TV video capture is in the mix. For most things, pretty much ANY windows computer that has USB will work well enough to get things done.

Seems to me, the only real downside to a Netbook is storage and overall size. Compute power probably isn't at issue. I personally can't deal with something too small. Just not productive for longer sessions, though they are perfect for tinkering.

Re: XP If you are at all interested in XP, you might consider snagging a OEM license, or just media. Many older machines have the product code you need printed on them. Use that, and retire the old one, and get yourself a driver and update archive. That's what I have done. Everything XP fits on a DVD or two, and a hard disk, just because media tends to die.

smbaker

For what its worth, I picked up a Toshiba NB505-N500BL from best buy today, planning on taking it on a trip in the near future.

The keyboard wasn't as bad as I had feared. Sure, I push the wrong key every so often, but I do that even on my fullsize keyboard. I have big fingers, and the little keyboard doesn't bother me.

I loaded up VMWare Player and ran Ubuntu 11 inside of VMWare player, under windows 7 starter, with only 1GB of RAM in the little netbook. It worked, although it was consuming battery at about twice the normal rate. Also loaded up openoffice on it (use that instead of the pricey microsoft alternative).

The RAM (one socket, up to 2GB) and hard drive are easily replaced by opening an access port with two phillips screws. This is something to check, as I think there were some complains about other netbooks not being easily upgradeable. I'll probably be upgrading mine to 2GB ASAP, and maybe throw an SSD into it, if I have one laying around.

Biggest issue I find when using the netbook is the 10.1" screen. The width feels alright, but the height feels "short" to me. The resolution is 1024x600. I find I'm doing a lot of scrolling of stuff up and down.

Tor

Most of what I do I do on an old 14" laptop with a Pentium M 1.2GHz (it steps that down when on battery if it gets low on juice) with 512MB of RAM. I've yet to run out of resources. When I got this laptop years ago (3rd owner) I got a new battery because the old one was dead. I don't leave it on mains with battery in so the replacement is still very good. It runs Linux but without KDE or other bloat, just X11+a small window manager. I write and run emulators and stuff on it, and I have tons of real work things too. Oh, and 80GB disk (a replacement - the old 30GB was a bit on the low side). If I bring the A/C transformer it just tips the scale so that it feels a bit heavy to carry around.

So what I'm looking for isn't RAM or CPU or disk really, it's two things:
1) Weight and portability. It would be great to have something that I could bring everywhere all the time and not just some of the time. It should be lightweight and have great (as in many hours) battery time.
2) I don't have any Windows computer. That's not a problem for my new Propeller adventure, fortunately, because BST seems to work just fine and I don't need Windows. But unfortunately the Zilog tools which I also need now only run on Windows. So I seem to have to bite the bullet and get a Windows computer.

Problem is that I think 2) (running Windows) may force me to also have think about CPU and RAM and such.. it kind of collides with 1). Maybe it's not a good idea to try to combine the wish of a lightweight, portable computer with great battery time with the need to also have a Windows computer (most of them come with Windows anyway but if it didn't really have the hardware for it and I didn't need it I would just scratch it and install Linux anyway. In any case I will make what I get dual-boot of course).

But I can't really see myself getting _two_ new computers.. argh. No room for another desktop PC, no wish for a heavy, large additional laptop.

Still looking.

max72

I'm writing from an Asus 901 go.
I installed linux in place of XP, and everything works out of the box, including GSM broadband connection.
The solid state disk is smaller than the traditional hard drive, but it works perfectly.
I use it with BST for propeller programming, and also Diptrace via wine. The monitor and the keyboard are small, so it is not my preferred configuration, but it is portable, and suable. My desktop PC with dual 21" TFT is more comfortable, needless to say..
Anyway I'm happy with it.
Be careful with the kernel version. There was an issue of compatibility between Ubuntu e the FTDI chip in the whereabouts of 9.04... check the forum, or consider upgrading the distro.
Massimo