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Parallax's new Support fantastic :) — Parallax Forums

Parallax's new Support fantastic :)

Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 18,069
edited 2011-06-25 07:37 in Propeller 1
I had reason to try the new web based support/ticket mechanism last night. I received the answers needed by this morning (I am in Oz).

Great work Parallax :)

Comments

  • BatangBatang Posts: 234
    edited 2011-06-18 12:51
    You sure about that.

    I had a ticket open for about 3 days without a reply and it took an email to Ken to get some movement and then a reply 1 day after that.

    I have another ticket (DEX-332-46545) open since the 16th with no reply as of this time.

    Banyak susah cari makan lah.
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2011-06-18 13:08
    Some questions are harder to answer than others and may require more research and/or testing before providing a reply.

    -Phil
  • Graham StablerGraham Stabler Posts: 2,510
    edited 2011-06-18 13:39
    But it is probably worth letting the person know their problem is being considered.

    I very much doubt it has anything to do with location however.

    Graham
  • BatangBatang Posts: 234
    edited 2011-06-18 13:42
    Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi):Some questions are harder to answer than others and may require more research and/or testing before providing a reply.

    I don't think so my question was "Is there any reason why a 10Mhz crystal with the PLL at X8 could not be used?"
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2011-06-18 13:44
    FWIW, I get responses within 24 hours from Microchip support.

    Doesn't Parallax send an email, indicating that the question has been logged for attention? Most other companies do that.
  • BatangBatang Posts: 234
    edited 2011-06-18 13:47
    All my other suppliers can give an email reply in 24 hours even if they do not have product support in country and have to go back to manufacturer.
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2011-06-18 14:06
    To answer your question rather obliquely, Parallax carries at least two products that use 10 MHz crystals and PLLx8: the Spin Stamp and the Propeller Backpack. The official answer, contained in the datasheet is that the crystal has to between 4 and 8 MHz when using the PLL. AFAIK, no problems have been reported from using 10 MHz crystals, but you can't take shortcuts with your layout or bypassing. Also, using a 10 MHz crystal with the PLL may further constrain the Propeller's stated operational temperature range.

    So, you see, your question does not have a simple answer. I suspect that Parallax may have to give even more careful consideration to their response, since it becomes the official word. So I would counsel patience.

    BTW, most companies will just point to the datasheet and let it go at that. The delay in your case may (or may not) be a sign that a more comprehensive answer is being discussed.

    -Phil
  • GranzGranz Posts: 179
    edited 2011-06-23 18:02
    ...
    BTW, most companies will just point to the datasheet and let it go at that. The delay in your case may (or may not) be a sign that a more comprehensive answer is being discussed.

    -Phil

    FWIW - a couple of my personal experiences:

    1) A couple of years ago, I had the need to call Atmel for a question. I had been designing a new product with the Tiny2313 and saw notice that the chip had reached end-of-life and had been replaced by the 2313A. I called to check on the differences between the 2313 and the 2313A and to make sure that the new chip was compatible with my product. Usually, I am able to find answers to all my questions about Atmel's chips, but the App Note that I found was decent, but overly verbose and I could not verify one aspect in the change. The answer I got from the person on the telephone was a slightly more polite version of: RTFM.

    2) Last year, my son won a Propeller Education Kit at UPENE10. When we got home, he noticed that it was missing the Prop Plug. After checking on Parallax's web site, and in the PEK manual, to make sure that it really should be present, I called Parallax. After only a couple of minutes on the phone, the new Prop Plug was on it's way (BTW: prior experiences had gotten my adrenaline flowing and I was ready for a fight - what a let-down, no fight!) The Prop Plug was at our house in a couple of days - before my son had done more than glance through his PEK.

    Now, I do like Atmel's products (and I actually like the idea of interrupts - to each his own, I guess) and I find it hard to use a Prop to just produce the timing pulse for a circuit, when a Tiny13 can be had for under a dollar and I can change the frequency at whim. On the other hand, the Prop can do tons of stuff that Atmel (and Microchip, TI, etc) chips would be sorry to attempt. Plus, I have never seen anything remotely like the hobbyist/hacker community that we have here on the forum and at the UPEs (and, having been in the field since 1975, I've been around the block a few times.) So, I will continue to use the Atmel's and TI's where they are best, but will actually enjoy new designs with the Prop a bit more, and I feel much better about tech support from Parallax than any other company with which I have worked.
  • cgraceycgracey Posts: 14,256
    edited 2011-06-24 03:40
    Parallax is not perfect, but we are trying to become better.

    If you want to see an example of high-tech, super-automated, and totally worthless support, you can read this exchange between Altera and I that just wrapped up today, after nearly a week. The only reason my problem got solved, at all, was because a helpful man at Digi-Key was able to track down a human at Altera (using some special phone numbers) who just happened to know how the FPGA-tool licensing worked, though it wasn't his job, anymore. The Altera person mentioned to the Digi-Key guy that Altera has now "off-shored" their customer support. Before you even get the chance to blow your 100 cubit feet of hot air through a straw to someone on the other side of the world, you get a thorough working-over by their giant support site that magically has no word on YOUR problem, as if YOUR problem must not really be a problem. It's like being stuck with Nurse Ratched in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, with the vain hope that perhaps a guard will help you out.

    Mind you, the whole following issue is over something akin to the Propeller Tool software, but way more complicated and strictly licensed for $3k/yr. Anyone who wants to program Altera's big FPGA's (which cost thousands, anyway) needs this Quartus II software.

    I'm really glad this is over...


    Request No: 10816502 Status: Close-Pending
    Date Opened (PDT): 6/17/2011 12:20 PM Date Closed (PDT):
    Device Family: STRATIX III Device: EP3SL150F1152C2N
    Request Topic
    (or Error Message): Quartus II & Stratix III Development Kit
    Steps to Reproduce
    / Description: I just bought another Altera-made Stratix III development kit and my understanding (as I recall being the case, last time), was that this kit also provided a one-year Quartus II license. In anticipation of this kit arriving overnight, I downloaded the latest subscription version and began using it under 30-day trial. Now, my database has been updated to conform to v11.0 and this kit that arrived seems to want me to use Web Edition (which does not support this Stratix III device). Well, I'm quite sure this was NOT the case when I bought my first board a few years ago. What should I do now? I spent $2500 on this board anticipating a one-year license to the main Quartus II program. Is there any way you could make this work? Every time I have to deal with this crazy licensing issue, it frustrates the living hell out of me. I would have been content to stick with my original board and version of Quartus, but a virus wiped out my system and I had to start over with a new hard drive, knowing very well that you would not likely help make my system work again for my previous development board. So, I spent $2500 w/overnight shipping, and am currently feeling quite stuck. I would appreciate any help. Thanks.
    Error Message:


    6/21/2011 12:46 PM From Customer
    Are you guys going to answer my request for help, or not? Must I spend another $3k to get working again? I need Quartus II running ASAP. I am stuck. Please, please, please help me.


    6/21/2011 05:35 PM From Customer
    Today, in desperation, I bought a Quartus II license for $2995, plus tax. I am still not up and running, after having now spent $6k. You must have NO IDEA what this feels like to a customer. I believe that if you ever address my problem, I will find that I didn't need to buy Quartus, afterall. Even so, after your site accepted my credit card, no license has been sent to me. I am still dead in the water. What has happened so far makes me want to cry. I have a job to get done and I can't do it. There is no one in Altera that I can even get on the phone. You have built an impenetrable wall that no customer can breach. And it is very clear that this is your intent. This is inhuman. And what can I do about it? Nothing!


    6/22/2011 08:36 AM From Customer
    Digi-Key is trying to contact you on my behalf to get this license issue resolved. By the way, Digi-Key is unaware of the Quartus II NIC-tied license system. How can you leave your distributor in the dark about something so critical?

    Apparently, the order I placed at Altera yesterday for a (redundant) Quartus II license is now shipping ground from Digi-Key!?! I needed a license last week, not next week. I've got a synthesis team working on our ASIC and they are billing us $10k/week and I am unable to verify my RTL changes because I've got no Quartus II license! I've spent $6k trying to get running and NOTHING has happened. I have never encountered such insolence before, even from cell phone companies.

    Nobody at Altera will answer the phone or call me back. The number you gave me in your email from the my latest Quartus II purchase actually calls to Digi-Key, who doesn't know about NIC-based licensing. You have NO IDEA what this is like. I am stuck and losing resources fast.

    6/23/2011 01:24 AM To Customer
    Hi Chip,

    I am so sorry for what has troubled and disappointed you. I as one of Altera Technical Support personnel would always want all our customers happy using our products and help them when they are in trouble. I on behalf of Altera would like to apologize for all these inconveniences that happening to you. I will try my best to get this thing solve as soon as possible.

    first of all, when you buy a development board, you only given a time limited Quartus II license. Normally, after a year after the purchase, the license will expire and it depends on you whether you want to purchase an unlimited subscription licenses, or using the free web edition license(with many limitation).

    I will consult our License Administrator on your newly purchased subscription edition license. We will try to solve your issue as soon as possible. Do you have any information of the purchase so that we can track the transaction?

    regards,
    Farabi


    6/23/2011 02:08 AM To Customer
    Dear Chip,
    I believed our Customer Service at San Jose had already assisted you with your problem.
    Again, we apologize for all the inconvenience caused. If you need further help, pls let me know.
    Thanks,
    Carol


    6/23/2011 01:30 PM From Customer
    Farabi and Carol,

    Thanks for responding. Digi-Key was able to contact someone at Altera who knew about the licensing protocol, though that was not their current job. Apparently, the dev-kit box which I had received was missing some paperwork that gave licensing instructions. The person at Digi-Key was able to walk me through what needed to be done and everything is working now.

    This crazy licensing conundrum caused me to loose nearly a week of testing. It's not good to be so strict with your customers when their livelihood hangs on Quartus II being operational. I sent $6k your way and nobody from Altera would respond directly to me for nearly a week, while I was dead in the water. It demonstrates that Altera thinks its own reckoning of reality absolutely trumps that of its customers. I've been using your FPGAs for over ten years now and every time I must deal with the licensing issue, it is more extreme than the time before.

    In trying to solve my problem, I noticed the latest version of Quartus II, cracked, free to download on some site. I bet you're driving some otherwise-honest customers to this alternative, not because they wouldn't pay you, but because they've learned that it is too dangerous to rely on you, and they rightly resent your indifferent attitude. This is probably all pointless to say, because you'll just keep heading in the same direction, anyway. I'm very frustrated to see this, when you've got such great FPGAs.


    6/23/2011 07:03 PM To Customer
    Dear Chip,
    Thank you for your valuable inputs. Will definitely bring this up to Altera Licensing Team for future improvement.
    If you have any non technical licensing issue or any license request, you may contact us at authorization@altera.com. I promise that we will respond to you and assist you as soon as we can.
    Thanks & Regards,
    Carol
  • TubularTubular Posts: 4,717
    edited 2011-06-24 06:22
    Hey Chip,

    I know first hand your frustration with Altera, but at least your case is closed now. Mine aint :(

    I'm summoning my strength for round 2 with a stupid legacy issue where their hardware has ceased to program their own chips. I don't know 100% whether it is a programmer, or device fab issue as in the past they have sometimes changed their process size and introduce race conditions etc in the process. I can still program old date code devices, and I've verified with the local rep who has the same vintage system that it isn't just my system.

    But... the Altera support "system" has me exhausting all other possible miraculous cures (hiring third party programmers, looking for old date code devices on partminer etc), before returning to the banality of their kpi focussed support. Their suggestions were somewhat predictable - they cannot support my vintage of parts (yet they still sell them, even through their own online store, which seems to be a front for Digikey?), I need to upgrade the software to a supported version, then I'm sure the new software would not work with the old card, or operating system etc. But getting them to "take on" a customers problem, eg replicate it in house, just was all too hard.

    Anyway thanks for sharing. Nice to know one isn't alone on these battles. And good luck getting the refund etc.

    tubular
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2011-06-24 09:19
    I've recently had just the opposite experience with -- of all companies -- Microsoft, and with a tech support person halfway around the world. I had to rebuild the WinXP system on my work computer from scratch due to a botched Windows Update to .NET that totally hosed my system. My original install disk was SP1, so I borrowed an SP2 disk to save a little time, but ultimately needed to upgrade to SP3. That's where I got stuck. Any attempt to download the upgrade from Microsoft's server screeched to a halt after a few kilobytes. So I called their tech support line and was transferred to an agent in India. Granted, it took awhile to elevate my support ticket to the point where I got to talk to someone in India who knew what to do. But once that happened I was treated to an impressive demonstration of patient expertise. I was on the phone with this guy for three hours. Ultimately, he had to take control of my computer remotely and delete a bunch of files in the Windows system directory that were causing trouble. After that, "we" did the upgrade download, and he stayed on the line with me until the upgrade was successfully installed and running. But that's not all: two day later he called me back to make sure everything was still working okay!

    Say what you want about Microsoft and their products: at least they've got it right when it comes to tech support. I was pleasantly surprised.

    -Phil
  • Ken GraceyKen Gracey Posts: 7,401
    edited 2011-06-24 09:29
    Batang,

    I think we've worked the hiccups out of the process and we're all on alert for faster reply to the support.parallaxsemiconductor.com web site, so please give us another try and see what happens.

    Ken Gracey
  • edited 2011-06-24 09:41
    Leon wrote: »
    FWIW, I get responses within 24 hours from Microchip support.

    Doesn't Parallax send an email, indicating that the question has been logged for attention? Most other companies do that.

    Is it just me or does anyone else find Leona constant references to other companies/products annoying? As a lurked here I have noticed when someone has a difficulty or issue leon compares it to not having these issues on other platforms, especially xmos which I am frankly sick of hearing about. This isn't an xmos forum and I don't come here to hear about xmos. And microchip support isn't all you make it out to be, which is the primary reason I am here. So please, if its not related to Parallax directly don't say it! I have had nothing but positive things from here and phone/email support. Stop being the naysayer here. Sheesh! Sorry all..fed up with his Smile.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2011-06-24 09:53
    What's wrong with making comparisons between companies and their products? XMOS and Parallax have quite a lot in common, the Propeller gets discussed a lot on the XMOS forum and I haven't seen any complaints. I give both companies and their products frequent plugs on other, more general forums.

    Microchip support isn't always what it's customers would like it to be, but it is one of the better companies in that respect.
  • edited 2011-06-24 10:11
    There is nothing wrong with making comparisons, but you seem to do it to put Parallax and/or products in a negative view in these comparisons. It is quite obvious you prefer other companies products and that shows in most of your posts. If someone has trouble doing something on a propeller you tell them how you would do it so easily on xmos. Imho you're what we call the bad element. Again my opinion but I have seen enough of your posts that now when I see a reply from you I say to myself, what product does leon recommend over the one the op used. What value did mentioning microchip support here offer anyone?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2011-06-24 10:28
    I seem to get better support from them than any other company I deal with, and thought it deserved a mention, in comparison with Batang's experience with Parallax support! It appeared as though Parallax isn't providing enough feedback about progress of support requests, which is something that Microchip usually does rather well.
  • Ken GraceyKen Gracey Posts: 7,401
    edited 2011-06-24 10:37
    Leon wrote: »
    I seem to get better support from them than any other company I deal with, and thought it deserved a mention, in comparison with Batang's experience with Parallax support! It appeared as though Parallax isn't providing enough feedback about progress of support requests, which is something that Microchip usually does rather well.

    Leon, I think that Batang's experience of waiting a few days was an exception to the norm and I feel it is indeed unfortunate that you have latched onto it as an indicator of our FAE service level.

    You are still appreciated here for your contributions and I hope to see them shine!

    Ken Gracey
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2011-06-24 10:42
    Sorry about that, Ken, but I got the impression that Batang didn't even get an acknowledgment of his support request, which most other companies provide. I could be wrong about that.

    Do you in fact acknowledge support requests immediately by email?
  • ctwardellctwardell Posts: 1,716
    edited 2011-06-24 11:00
    I look at Leon as the guy that pushes us all to do our best.

    Maybe like that teacher that got under your skin while you were a student, but then you look back and see how much they helped you.

    C.W.
  • Ken GraceyKen Gracey Posts: 7,401
    edited 2011-06-24 11:59
    ctwardell wrote: »
    I look at Leon as the guy that pushes us all to do our best.

    Maybe like that teacher that got under your skin while you were a student, but then you look back and see how much they helped you.

    C.W.

    I admit to sharing this point of view, at least a bit.

    Complacency is an enemy, and since there's room for improvement we should take it.

    Ken Gracey
  • Ken GraceyKen Gracey Posts: 7,401
    edited 2011-06-24 12:04
    Leon wrote: »
    Sorry about that, Ken, but I got the impression that Batang didn't even get an acknowledgment of his support request, which most other companies provide. I could be wrong about that.

    Do you in fact acknowledge support requests immediately by email?

    Yes, provided the submitted question was accompanied with a valid e-mail address. Give it a try and let us know works out (you must have a QuickStart question of some type). The engineers really want to provide the best service.

    Ken Gracey
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2011-06-24 12:13
    I'm working on an expansion unit for it. I'll see if I can think of something. :)
  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 18,069
    edited 2011-06-25 06:00
    FWIW I received a quick automated reply to my original email.
    For a small company with limited resources, Parallax does a much better job than most that have huge budgets. Most seem to forget they were once small.

    And for the record, I also am tired of Leon. Quite frankly Ken, I do not share your comments about Leon, even a bit.
  • BatangBatang Posts: 234
    edited 2011-06-25 06:12
    It would appear discussing the proclivities of Leon as hijacked this thread.

    Anyway if nothing else I find the posts amusing and have discovered an new axiom to add to the other 2 axioms about discussing politics and religion, discussing propeller and XMOS chips in the same forum :)

    Shalom...........
  • jazzedjazzed Posts: 11,803
    edited 2011-06-25 07:04
    Cluso99 wrote: »
    And for the record, I also am tired of Leon. Quite frankly Ken, I do not share your comments about Leon, even a bit.
    Just report his off topic posts and ignore him.
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,197
    edited 2011-06-25 07:37
    And my vote is:

    Parallax has always provided me with outstanding support and I have always been satisfied with their service. I deal with businesses and manufacturers on a fairly regular basis, and Parallax's service is by far one of the best companies out there. I am not a spokesperson, nor do I get any benefit by saying such things, I just believe in giving credit where credit is do.

    Bruce
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