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IR LEDs for Outdoor Camera — Parallax Forums

IR LEDs for Outdoor Camera

wasswass Posts: 151
edited 2011-05-28 23:02 in General Discussion
I have an outdoor "security" camera that I use to watch the animals around the bird feeder in my backyard. It's a decent quality one camera with good optics and resolution, however the IR LED's brunt out. They were apparently being over driven by design and while it worked well, they only lasted for about a year or so. I can't find a replacement illuminator board (that's what they call them) that will fit my camera so I bought a bunch of T-1 3/4 LEDs and replaced them (there are 24).

I've done this now with 5 different sets of IR LEDs and none of them are as bright as the original ones, even if I deliberately overdrive them. Does anyone know which IR LED's are typically used in these cameras? The best ones I've found far are the LE-DS158 ones from Sure Electronics (see ebay) -- they were by far the least expensive as well.

For reference the camera is no longer made and the seller says replacement parts are not available for it. It's the model HR49 sold by discount-security-cameras.net.


Thanks,
Katie

Comments

  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2011-05-22 17:25
    Katie,

    First of all, what field of view do you need to cover with the illumination? IOW, at a 10-foot distance, what subject width fills the image at the zoom setting you plan to use?

    -Phil
  • wasswass Posts: 151
    edited 2011-05-22 22:26
    Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) wrote: »
    Katie,

    First of all, what field of view do you need to cover with the illumination? IOW, at a 10-foot distance, what subject width fills the image at the zoom setting you plan to use?

    -Phil

    Phil,

    I should have mentioned that I'm looking for T-1 3/4 LEDs with a coverage angle anywhere from 15 to 30 degrees, a wavelength of 850nm seems to be the best match to the imaging chip.

    Just for completeness (but irrelevant) the illuminator board is powered by 12 volts and the circuit is set up as 4 parallel strings of 6 LED's each with a dropping resistor. The LED's I'm using now are speced to run at 60ma and they get pretty much exactly that with a 33 ohm resistor in each of the 4 parallel strings. That works out to be a forward voltage drop of 1.67.


    Thanks,
    Katie
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2011-05-22 22:37
    Here's one that might work for you:

    I don't know how the power output at 60mA (~60mW/sr) compares with what you had before, since I couldn't find a datasheet for the old one online.

    -Phil
  • wasswass Posts: 151
    edited 2011-05-23 00:15
    Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) wrote: »
    Here's one that might work for you:

    I don't know how the power output at 60mA (~60mW/sr) compares with what you had before, since I couldn't find a datasheet for the old one online.

    -Phil

    Those were among the ones I tried. I read over most of the IR LED T-1 3/4 datasheets on the Mouser and Digikey sites. Almost all are 50-100 milliwatts per seradian but I found that they all stink compared with the orignal ones or the ones from Sure.

    I wish that manufacturers would label their LED's like they do almost all other semiconductors, then I'd know what the orignal ones were.
    I suppose that I could just buy a couple of illuminator boards for other cameras (they sell them cheap), remove those LED's and give them a try. But then I'll never know the part number :(

    -Katie
  • Jorge PJorge P Posts: 385
    edited 2011-05-23 13:44
    I have had luck using high brightness Red LED's with a filter of thin transparent red green and blue plastic. The hardest part of making the filter is finding the correct color for the filter to work. The red and blue you need can easily be found in the paper 3D glasses you can find at some video rental stores. The green will be harder to find unless you can match it to something like a projection TV's green filter. If you have Ruby, Emerald, and Aquamarine gemstones those would be the perfect colors to match to. In the attached picture is the color red you will need, this is a set of 100% genuine earth made Rubies, most jewely store rubies are not as deep a red as the real thing since they are man made knockoffs. I can't find the ring with the genuine emeralds. These stones and the ring are family hairlooms from Spain.
    250+Yo_Genuine_Ruby_Ring.jpg
    798 x 596 - 66K
  • tonyp12tonyp12 Posts: 1,951
    edited 2011-05-23 19:24
    If you can wait 2weeks
    http://www.dealextreme.com/p/5mm-ir-led-emitters-20-pack-2399
  • wasswass Posts: 151
    edited 2011-05-23 20:01
    Tony,

    DX, of course, why didn't I think of them!

    I've bought lots of stuff from them over the past few years so I know the waiting game. I wonder if they are any different than the other ones I got from China via Sure for about the same price. I'll have to try then and find out.

    Jorge,

    I'm really surprised that high brightness red LED's have a significant IR component after passing thru all those filters. Have you been able to compare that to say the IR LED's from DX or any name brand ones?

    Thanks for the suggestions,
    -Katie
  • Jorge PJorge P Posts: 385
    edited 2011-05-24 08:36
    I didn't compare it to anything, I did it as per recommendation from a friend to help conceal the camera because someone was breaking into my pickup late at night, the camera originally had the red LED's that were clearly visible at night. Note that this was in Montana at the time where you are not legally required by law to notify anyone that they are being recorded. If I had been in another State, I would have to post a notice that the property was under surveillance. Imagine getting sued by a thief because you recorded them committing a crime.

    Since you are using it to watch animals at night, some nocturnal animals wont come into your field of view since the IR is visible to some of them and could be blinding them so some sort of filter should be used used. I believe Bobcats are this way along with some mountain lions and bear.
  • wasswass Posts: 151
    edited 2011-05-24 18:29
    Jorge P wrote: »
    I believe Bobcats are this way along with some mountain lions and bear.

    I'm in suburban NY City and have seen under IR illumination: raccoons (every night) , deer, skunks, opossums, hedgehogs, rabbits, turkeys, foxes and coyotes (we've had a bunch of them here recently). None of them seem to mind the IR light at all. I'd be pretty flipped out if I saw a bobcat or mountain lion, but bears are a possibility they've been in the neighborhood before.
  • bomberbomber Posts: 297
    edited 2011-05-28 08:08
    This may not be a question of what kind of LED, but a question of how many LEDs. Try adding more LEDs and that may work.
  • wasswass Posts: 151
    edited 2011-05-28 23:02
    More LED's would help for sure, but there's no space for them on the circular board that fits around the camera lens. I ordered a similar sized board used in other cameras. It's not the right size but I will try to make that one fit, if not I'll remove those LED's and try them on the board I have. I'll report back on my results ......

    Failing all of these suggestions, I could use an IR iilluminator that's not mounted inside the camera housing. This would achieve the goal of seeing well at night, but not the goal of trying to find the original LED's used in this camera or something that fits in the original housing and works as well as the original LEDs.
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