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Targus NW780 mini keyboard. (Need USB HID driver) — Parallax Forums

Targus NW780 mini keyboard. (Need USB HID driver)

BeanBean Posts: 8,129
edited 2011-08-11 02:09 in Propeller 1
I have some Targus NW780 keyboards on the way.
My idea was to interface these to the propeller.

I found a web-site that guessed it was USB, so it might not be as easy as I had hoped, but I'll see.

Thoughts...
Targus NW780.jpg
320 x 292 - 22K

Comments

  • jazzedjazzed Posts: 11,803
    edited 2011-05-06 10:48
    Nice! Dimensions?
  • BeanBean Posts: 8,129
    edited 2011-05-06 11:02
    3.13" x 3.30" x 0.80"

    The PDA slides inside the top.

    Jazzed, I'll send you one if you want to have a crack at connecting it. Let me know.

    Bean
  • Bill HenningBill Henning Posts: 6,445
    edited 2011-05-06 11:06
    Nice find Bean!

    This is what I found on it: http://www.windowsphonethoughts.com/news/show/37388/targus-noteworthy-click-n-type-keyboard-for-toshiba-e740-and-kin.html

    I'd still try it in PS/2 mode; most USB keyboard controllers support the PS/2 protocol as well.
    Bean wrote: »
    I have some Targus NW780 keyboards on the way.
    My idea was to interface these to the propeller.

    I found a web-site that guessed it was USB, so it might not be as easy as I had hoped, but I'll see.

    Thoughts...
  • jazzedjazzed Posts: 11,803
    edited 2011-05-06 11:28
    Bean wrote: »
    3.13" x 3.30" x 0.80"

    The PDA slides inside the top.

    Jazzed, I'll send you one if you want to have a crack at connecting it. Let me know.

    Bean
    Ok. I'll PM you this afternoon. I can't promise anything before UPEW, but I'll give it a shot.
  • schillschill Posts: 741
    edited 2011-05-06 12:24
    I would expect the connection to the PDA to be serial - RS232 or TTL levels. I don't recall many PDAs having USB host capability (even limited to keyboards and mice) or PS/2 connections.

    I think all the "hacked" PDA keyboards I've seen have been serial (or wireless).
  • BeanBean Posts: 8,129
    edited 2011-05-06 13:45
    Schill, Boy I hope you are right. Serial would be sooo much easier to interface.

    I won't get them until Monday or Tuesday.

    Bean
  • jazzedjazzed Posts: 11,803
    edited 2011-05-06 15:22
    Bean wrote: »
    Schill, Boy I hope you are right. Serial would be sooo much easier to interface.
    I hope they're serial too. That would be a perfect combination with a pcb I just sent to fab.
  • StefanL38StefanL38 Posts: 2,292
    edited 2011-05-07 03:06
    I took a look into the e740 manual it says

    transfer items using infraRed (does this mean IrdA 2.1??)

    and with keywords Toshiba e740 cradle pinout I found this http://pinouts.ru/PDA/toshiba_e330_pinout.shtml
    showing it has USB but a lot of pins are not described

    here most of the pins are mentioned as +5V or GND
    http://www.ppc-welt.info/community/archive/index.php/t-69709.html

    Pin # Action
    1 +5 V USB
    2 - Data USB (slave)
    3 + Data USB (slave)
    4 GND USB
    5 +5V (VDD, power out for USB Host) - see notes below
    6 - Data USB (Host)
    7 USB internal / external power toggle (used with 4.7k ohm resistor & pin 15 below)
    - see notes below
    8 + Data USB (Host)
    9 through 14 ?? Video ?? - Don't know
    15 USB internal / external power toggle (used with 4.7k ohm resistor & pin 7 above)
    - see notes below
    16 & 18 GND USB
    17 ?? Don't know
    19,20,21,22 +5 V (VCC, system power to e740)
    23,24,25,26 GND (system power to the e740)

    Pin 7 & 15 - USB External vs. Internal Power

    best regards

    Stefan
  • BeanBean Posts: 8,129
    edited 2011-05-11 13:11
    I got one keyboard today and took it apart.
    The good news is that is operates like a standard PC USB keyboard.
    The bad news is that it does NOT do PS/2 emulation.

    I know there was some USB work done but I think that was to make the propeller a usb device (not talk to a USB device).

    Does anyone know if USB communication with a keyboard has been done on the propeller ? It is the slow USB so it should be doable.

    Bean
  • BeanBean Posts: 8,129
    edited 2011-08-10 14:42
    Okay I don't think a low-speed HID driver is going to show-up anytime soon.

    I have a couple options:
    1) Throw these in the trash and cut my loses
    2) Make a completely new PCB (maybe with a Propeller on it :) )
    3) Remove the USB controller IC and somehow connect another PCB to the pads ??? Not sure how I would do this.
    4) Find someone who could write a low-speed USB driver on the propeller for a fee.

    What's your opinion ? What should I do ???

    Bean
  • Duane DegnDuane Degn Posts: 10,588
    edited 2011-08-10 15:03
    Bean,

    Can you communicate with it via UBS from a computer?

    Does the USB communication chip also control the logic of the keyboard?

    If the USB chip is separate from the decoder chip, maybe you could tap into the signal "up stream" before it's converted to the USB protocol.

    I guessing you've already thought of this. Just making sure there's not an option 5. Is what I'm suggesting the same as option 3?

    Those would be handy to use with a Prop when/if you get them working.

    Duane
  • BeanBean Posts: 8,129
    edited 2011-08-10 16:43
    Duane,
    Yes it works with a PC. But it is a single chip that reads the matrix and converts it to USB, so no hope to tapping the signal before it is made into USB. So it is the same as option 3.

    Bean
  • RaymanRayman Posts: 14,876
    edited 2011-08-10 16:58
    Well, there is one other sorta easy way...
    Use an external chip that already has HID libraries...

    I think there are a lot of options this route...
    I have a MAX3421EEHJ+ that I hope to use one day... Even made a board for it...
  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 18,069
    edited 2011-08-10 17:12
    There is host prop softare done by Micah (scamline) that could be modified to work. Currently she has Bluetooth working, so keyboard should be simpler. Currently requires 96MHz and 3-4 cogs, but once done this can probably be trimmed.

    There are threads about this
    http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?121321-Working-full-speed-(12-Mb-s)-bit-banging-USB-Host-controller&highlight=usb+scanlime
    http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?97328-USB-toys-to-play-with/page3&highlight=USB%2A+toys

    Otherwise, a cheap micro maybe the alternative to do the work.
  • BeanBean Posts: 8,129
    edited 2011-08-10 18:50
    Cluso99,
    Yeah, I looked at the but is uses too many resources.
    These keyboards will work with slow-speed USB and will use the BOOT protocol (which I assume is much simpler).
    If there was a chip to convert USB keyboard to PS/2 keyboard that would be great (as long as it was cheap).

    Bean
  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 18,069
    edited 2011-08-11 02:09
    I think the point is to get it working. Once working, see what can be removed and hence simplify the resources required.

    I am sure the viniculum chip could do it, but that is ~$4.
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