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Commodore 64 2010 edition — Parallax Forums

Commodore 64 2010 edition

MicrocontrolledMicrocontrolled Posts: 2,461
edited 2011-06-03 07:26 in General Discussion
I've just heard of this and I thought all the C64 geeks on here may be interested

http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_C64.aspx

Looks like they've recreated the C64 into new and modern format, I wonder how much of a market there is for these things.
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Comments

  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2011-04-08 16:38
    I read about that last summer.

    It's just some PC packed into a C64-like enclosure.

    What's really needed is 1541 disk-drive emulator that really works
  • Martin_HMartin_H Posts: 4,051
    edited 2011-04-08 17:00
    Ugh I just had a 1541 disk drive assembly programming flashback.
  • localrogerlocalroger Posts: 3,452
    edited 2011-04-08 17:05
    I'm gonna casemod a Sony Playstation 3 into an Atari 2600 case and call it the Atari 2600 2011 edition. That would be about the same.
  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2011-04-08 17:11
    We could put a Propeller sticker on an arduina duemillenothing and call it a...
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited 2011-04-08 17:46
    Microcontrolled wrote: »
    I've just heard of this and I thought all the C64 geeks on here may be interested

    http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_C64.aspx

    Looks like they've recreated the C64 into new and modern format, I wonder how much of a market there is for these things.

    It is a PC and from what I've heard it runs Vice which you can run on any PC to get Commodore 64 emulation.

    I'm a Commodore 64 user and I don't like what the new Commodoreusa is doing to the name. I don't think a lot of the users on Amiga.org or Amigaworld.net are taking the news too well.
  • rogersydrogersyd Posts: 223
    edited 2011-04-08 18:26
    Might not be too hard to hack in one of the DTV boards.... These bozos should have licensed Jeri's chip and built a dual-boot device.
  • Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
    edited 2011-04-08 18:41
    We mentioned this in the C64 Emulation thread too..

    Bleh.. Had they put a slightly modified C64 ROM in the BIOS chip that would talk to the SD slot for C64 programs, they would have had a winner! Hold the C= key for C64 or let it boot to Win/Lin.

    Instead it's a stupid PC.. It would have been a simple thing to license Jeri's design, (or buy the stockpile of rotting chips she has.) and the interface for C=64 to SD interface is open source. Perhaps one of these could be modded to include these abilities, but not for the price.

    Edit: Commodore steals defeat from the jaws of victory. If they had simply asked the community what they wanted they would have a product that would go like hotcakes! Gotta love Parallax in this regard.

    OBC
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited 2011-04-08 19:25
    Oldbitcollector (Jeff) wrote: »
    Edit: Commodore steals defeat from the jaws of victory. If they had simply asked the community what they wanted they would have a product that would go like hotcakes! Gotta love Parallax in this regard.

    OBC

    Okay. They allegedly bought the rights to use the name "Commodore" but they are making a Commodore like case. They have no intention of resurrecting the old hardware.

    In fact, I bet if I took my Commodore 64 out of its case and tried to put it in the new Commodore case that it wouldn't fit because it really isn't a Commodore. It is just an attempt to get some market value out of the brand name.

    Load Vice on your PC and you will have a Commodore 64 without the expense of buying a PC with a Commodore like case:

    http://www.viceteam.org/

    You don't have to buy their new computer. Just run Vice.
  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2011-04-08 19:40
    OBC,
    Rotting chips? Say on.
  • Invent-O-DocInvent-O-Doc Posts: 768
    edited 2011-04-09 06:46
    It looked pretty cool to me. The linux implementation with the amiga like interface is also a nice touch. I think its cool because the keyboard-computer form factor was a good one and it has those nice springy keys.
  • Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
    edited 2011-04-09 07:49
    PJ Allen wrote: »
    OBC,
    Rotting chips? Say on.

    I asked Jeri if she could still get the DTV chips created, and she mentioned that she had a box of (thousands?) of the DTV chips. (I'm guessing they are not packaged, just created to go under the epoxy blob.) She indicated that the shelf-life of these chips was not very good. I'm not sure of the details, but it sounds like they are rotting to me.

    OBC
  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2011-04-09 07:50
    Looks "pretty cool"?
    Cool enough to buy it?
    I look forward to reading your review.
  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2011-04-09 07:51
    OBC,
    O-I-C. I had a link to a/another purported SD-based 1541 emulator, but it's gone soft.
  • Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
    edited 2011-04-09 07:52
    @Chuckz

    There is simply no real substitute for the real thing. ("Oldbitcollector" was initially chosen because I collect old computers, unfortunately it has a double meaning now.) I keep a few CBM units around with a bunch of their software on SD. I don't have issue with replacing my 1541 drives with an adapter, but when it comes to playing Spyhunter, PSI-5, or Ghostbusters, emulation just doesn't cut it.

    OBC
  • Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
    edited 2011-04-09 07:54
    Actually, there are two or three open source CBM serial 1541 to SD adapters around. I have one.

    OBC
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited 2011-04-09 18:28
    PJ Allen wrote: »
    OBC,
    O-I-C. I had a link to a/another purported SD-based 1541 emulator, but it's gone soft.

    Here you go:

    http://www.nkcelectronics.com/Classic-Computer_c_39.html
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,260
    edited 2011-04-12 16:20
    NY Times picked up the story: http://finance.yahoo.com/family-home/article/112510/new-commodore-64-nyt
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited 2011-04-12 21:17
    I would rather have a modular computer.

    http://www.xi3.org/

    I don't understand why people want a PC in an old case that has little to do with the old Commodore. I'm having a hard time understanding because it is a PC and not a Commodore.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2011-04-13 00:36
    Let's forget it's a C64 style case for a minute.

    What we have here is a half decent Intel architecture machine in a fat keyboard enclosure.

    What does it offer over a PC? Well compared to the monster sitting under my desk:
    1) Smaller size.
    2) Silent (I hope)
    3) Less cables, for keyboard at least (and I hate wireless keyboards)
    4) Hopefully a much nicer keyboard than this sponge I'm typing this on.

    What advantage does it have over a laptop?
    1) Hopefully more rugged, lap tops just seem to disintegrate spontaneously.
    2) Hopefully a much nicer keyboard.
    3) No integrated display, just pop it under your TV like the good old days. Also helps with ruggedness.

    So given that currently I'd rather do real work on a PC and take a tablet for mobile media surfing this could be an ideal replacement for that monster PC under my desk.

    To me it all hinges on the quality of construction. Especially the quality of that keyboard is good it might be worth it for that.

    I don't think it is really a PC. Doesn't it run Linux out of the box?
  • Invent-O-DocInvent-O-Doc Posts: 768
    edited 2011-04-13 15:52
    Good points Heater. I like the form factor too and the nostalgia is great. At $595, it is quite pricey for a dual core Atom desktop, especially without windows. I suspect that they will still sell a lot if they can manufacture and support them. That cherry key spring keyboard is worth part of the premium. (I'm thinking this would be a good machine for the kids or in my electronics lab rather than as a main machine).
  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2011-04-13 19:21
    If the public wanted a solid keyboard, or anything else solid in this regard,
    then solid keyboards, etc., would be manufactured. The market isn't there.
    It's undeniable that the broad masses want Smile and economies of scale dominate.
    Start a company to contradict me, "we're doing quality", and go broke before
    the year's out.
    It's all about out with the old, in with the new, and, if it breaks, it doesn't pay
    to fix it, just throw it away and buy another from the PLA.

    It's not me, you know it's true.

    It's thought that the C64 might have been taken more seriously in its time had they
    only separated the keyboard from the computer, it was perceived as a toy. Likewise
    the Amiga.
  • Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
    edited 2011-04-13 19:54
    I suspect the real reason that the C64 was perceived as a toy was because Jack sold them in toy stores. He placed them in where the everyday man could find them readily. If you wanted an Apple at the time, you went to the Byte Shop, or other Apple certified center. If you wanted a C64, you went to ToysRUs or Sears.

    Bloody marketing genius... and it had a good run.

    Edit: .. and for the record, there is still a group of folks who buy quality. I hang with them, they are called, "Propellerheads". :)

    OBC
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited 2011-04-13 20:17
    Oldbitcollector (Jeff) wrote: »
    I suspect the real reason that the C64 was perceived as a toy was because Jack sold them in toy stores.

    If you watch some of the videos from Commodore engineers on Youtube, even they referred to the Commodore as a toy which doesn't help if your own people don't believe in their product. I think it was partly because of the 40 columns and the keyboard.

    What makes a computer a toy? Is it because of games? If you use the same computer as a tool then is it still a toy? Were they using the right word? It was an under developed product as they could have spent more money on research and development but they pretty much abandoned it for newer technology like the Motorola 68000 chip.
  • Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
    edited 2011-04-13 20:27
    This thread kept reminding me of something I'd heard before somewhere... then it hit me..
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited 2011-04-13 20:52

    Jeff, it was marketed for games. Here is the transcript and I think this embodies the spirit of the Do it yourself movement (in bold):

    There are two kinds of teenagers today:
    One strives to rack up 30 million points on video games.
    The other finds it challenging to invent his own game.
    One depends on somebody else’s imagination.
    The other on his own.
    One owns a video game machine.
    The other has a Commodore Vic – 20 Home Computer.
    But they do have one thing in common.
    Someday both will be trying to get into college.
  • Marka32Marka32 Posts: 41
    edited 2011-04-13 22:39
    The real reason that the Commodore was never taken seriously is that they screwed their own dealers. They made a deal with their dealer network for the C64. It was supposed to be a great price. They assured the dealers that they were getting the best price, and no one would get a better deal. So they bought a bunch. A short while later, they saw that Toys R Us was selling them for less than what they had paid. They were stuck. A warehouse full of C64s that they couldn't sell. So when Commodore stole the Amiga and tried to get dealers, of course nobody wanted to deal with them. If they had sold them in real computer stores alongside IBM PCs, the IBM would have been a mere footnote in computer history. But no one was ever fired for buying IBM, and Fortune 500 companies don't buy their computers at Toys R Us.

    Not that Commodore was ever all that honest. When their first home computer, the PET became available, they promised to ship one "real soon", for the low price of $495. People sent in their money, and got nothing. Finally, Commodore announced that the PET was more expensive than they thought ($795), and no, you don't get your $495 back. Send another $300 or get nothing (keeping in mind this was '77? That was a lot of money).

    Too bad. Even though the 6502 was a defective processor, Commodore could have changed the computer industry. Instead, Jack Tramiel saw it as a means to wealth, and nothing more.

    - Mark
    Oldbitcollector (Jeff) wrote: »
    I suspect the real reason that the C64 was perceived as a toy was because Jack sold them in toy stores. He placed them in where the everyday man could find them readily. If you wanted an Apple at the time, you went to the Byte Shop, or other Apple certified center. If you wanted a C64, you went to ToysRUs or Sears.

    Bloody marketing genius... and it had a good run.

    Edit: .. and for the record, there is still a group of folks who buy quality. I hang with them, they are called, "Propellerheads". :)

    OBC
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2011-04-13 23:02
    I though all computers were toys :)

    Luckily people pay me money to play with them.
  • MicrocontrolledMicrocontrolled Posts: 2,461
    edited 2011-04-14 12:54
    Chuckz wrote: »
    There are two kinds of teenagers today:
    One strives to rack up 30 million points on video games.
    The other finds it challenging to invent his own game.
    One depends on somebody else’s imagination.
    The other on his own.
    One owns a video game machine.
    The other has a Commodore Vic – 20 Home Computer.
    But they do have one thing in common.
    Someday both will be trying to get into college.

    Wow, I think I need to put that in my signature. :-)
  • icepuckicepuck Posts: 466
    edited 2011-04-14 16:05
    The new c64 is like the new macs, it's just another x86 computer repackaged into a different case.
    I'll take my old G4 and original C64s and 128D over this new Smile any day.
    -dan
  • Martin_HMartin_H Posts: 4,051
    edited 2011-04-14 17:48
    The 6502 was a bear to program in assembler, but I wouldn't call it defective. It was Turing complete and cheap enough to allow anyone to buy a computer.
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