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can some one give me some guidence please? — Parallax Forums

can some one give me some guidence please?

ManimalManimal Posts: 1
edited 2011-04-06 20:07 in General Discussion
Hey guys and girls...

so first off i would like to say that i am super jealous of every one on this website, that know what the heck they are doing, i am so new at this its rediculous, and i am looking to build a couple small projects.

one project is a simple RFID scanner which by the looks of it should be pretty easy, how ever i need it to beable to scan approximatly 3-5 meters, thats about it, and also beable to read up to 200 tags, not nessicarily all at once, but in a timly fashion, also i would like it to compare the rfid tags, against a set list to verify if one tag is missing or not...

ive already checked out the parallax USB RFID scanner, how ever i read in the documentation that it has a read distance of about 4 inches or so, depending upon the RFID tag used, is there any way to modify the unit as to extend the range? i would assume that the transmitter would require more power, but im certain that the board isnt designed for that...

could any one give me 5 mins and point me in the proper direction to get it started? perhaps some books i could read, or an online course i could take to further help me design this? i swear it will be a cool project once everything is said and done!

Comments

  • max72max72 Posts: 1,155
    edited 2011-04-06 00:30
    Welcome to the forum.
    Probably a better title would help... anyway there have been a discussion on the forum about long range rfid (look for active rfid) in the recent past. You could probably find a lot of stuff to get started.
    Here it is..
    http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?125624-RFID-Reader-Distance

    Massimo
  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2011-04-06 05:37
    3-5 metres! Going from appx 4-in. to 108-180-in would be no mean feat.

    It's really not about the RFID Reader.
    It's the transponder cards (tags, et al.) that are low-power.

    You're talking about full-fledged transceivers, two-way RF comms.

    Knowing nothing, you're not going to ask some questions and "get some
    answers", maybe read a page or two on "the 'net", and go cobble up
    something credible in the basement.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2011-04-06 06:17
    A quick google around suggests that RFID only works at short range. Even discussions of "long range" RFID are only working less than one meter. A lot less.

    Thing is RFID is not a radio system in the conventional sense of a radio transmitter and receiver.

    It's more like a transformer where the primary winding is fed from the RFID scanner and the secondary winding is the RFID TAG. They are a coupled resonant circuit. This does not work well over more than a few tens of centi meters at best.

    Having said that, I find this: http://www.prlog.org/10223510-longdistance-rfid-reader-offers-read-range-up-to-40-feet.html
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2011-04-06 06:21
    This project will get your range up to about 25cm http://www.eng.tau.ac.il/~yash/kw-usenix06/index.html
  • MicrocontrolledMicrocontrolled Posts: 2,461
    edited 2011-04-06 08:35
    @Heater: About 25cm!?!? Just glancing down the page showed pictures of a setup that took up a large portion of a desk and an antenna that looks like it could radio to space, and it only transmits 1/4th of a meter??? I really don't think it would be worth the trouble.

    I use RFID in a LOT of my projects, and I just don't think this would be a good use of the application. RFID has to transmit radio waves through the air not just strong enough to be received, but strong enough to apply power to the tag.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2011-04-06 10:01
    As I say, a passive RFID tag system is not really working with radio waves.

    Normally with radio one thinks of an electromagnetic wave propagating itself out through space.

    With passive RFID one is better off thinking of it as two coils coupled by an alternating magnetic field. Basically a transformer.

    The passive RFID tag gets power form it's antenna coil which is the secondary winding of this transformer. When powered it can increase or decrease the load on the secondary which the transmitter sees as as varying load on it's antenna coil, the primary. These changes in load, modulation, are what carries the RFID data back to the scanner.

    As a pair of magnetically coupled coils one would not expect the range to be great. Rather like you would not expect your power supply transformer to work very well if you separated the primary and secondary coils.
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