Patents ?
Zap-o
Posts: 452
Is a patent difficult / costly and can I use the propeller in this grand design of mine?
Anyone ever get a patent if so please chime in so that I can have a path to go on.
Anyone ever get a patent if so please chime in so that I can have a path to go on.
Comments
1. Can you afford the attorney fees to get the patent?
2. Can you afford the attorney fees to sue infringers? (The government won't do that for you.)
Might it be better just to make your device, sell it while you can before the pirates catch on, then move on to something else?
-Phil
I found it interesting that Microsoft was suing Barnes and Noble and the blogs were claiming that because Microsoft has something like 20,000 patents they can sue and the alleged accusation was that Microsoft was trying to get Barnes and Noble to license one of their patents. This might be evidence that the patent system is broken.
When James Watt wanted to adapt his steam engines from linear motion drive for pumps to rotary motion for driving machines in factories the obvious thing to do was to make a crankshaft. Well what do you know, he could not, someone had a patent on it. So he had to build a more complicated and expensive system to convert linear to rotary motion, the sun and planet gears.
Even in a history of steam power written a hundred years ago the author was stating that patents had held up the course of development my decades.
I conclude that the patent system has always been broken.
Why didn't he license the crankshaft from the patent holder?
Now, with that said, if you feel that your product is a worthy product and can prove it is new and useful, then you can file a patent. However, be very aware the only value of them is in defending yourself in court against copy cats, and sometimes that doesn't even work out in your favor.
The very first question you have to ask youself truly is not if it is a unique invention, but are you ready to defend it all the way to the Supreme Court if necessary? If not, then filing a patent isn't going to get you anything but your name in the historical archives in Washington.
And yes, I do have patents pending.
Bill
I have $5,000 saved up for seed money and another $5,000 in a few months, so if its going to cost more to obtain a patent then I may be screwed.
Any ideas on if this can be done with out an attorney?
wjsteele - I think its a truly original, simple and yet could change the several industries forever. Problem is, I am not 100%. I am merely 99% so Ill need to find a way to search patents.
That patent has been upheld in court. Utterly riduculous...
Also a big company can sue you for patent infringment even if you are not, they can keep you tied up in court and cost you thousands defending yourself.
Bean
I think one thing that is stifling innovation is the software patent and design patents in software: for example, someone patented green arrows over streets in a game to indicate a desired path. There is a whole industry of patent trolls out there that get patents for ridiculous things and lie in wait for someone to sue. Either Australia or New Zealand outlawed software patents recently but retained copyright protections.
As Phil said, that's just the start of the costs. It's up to you to police and prosecute would-be infringers.
Provisional patents cost less and offer less protection than full utility patents.
When you see "Patent Pending" molded/stamped onto a product, it most likely means they're bluffing and haven't done anything.
Before spending your bankroll on a patent and approaching the auto companies, be sure to rent and watch the movie Flash of Genius.
-Phil
nolo.com also has a little online FAQ about whether you should attempt a patent: http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/checklist-should-you-patent-invention-29456.html
You should also bear in mind that having a patent doesn't get you enforcement; there aren't any patent police you can call to report infringement. You have to find infringers yourself and sue them; what the patent gives you is the right to sue for and collect damages. That's all it is. If you don't think you would have the means to do that the patent won't be any good to you even if you are awarded it.
Anyhow thanks for the help people I seriously need to do some soul searching on this one.
-Phil
Dave
Patents are not "for the benefit of the inventor." They are "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts."
Duane
I strongly agree with Phil, get the product to market and reap the benefits before someone copies the idea.
If you don't have the investment money to back up all the lawyers and in-fighting over your patent, you'd be better off releasing it under a creative commons license or some sort, and encouraging people to use your idea.
Most likely you will find that a very small amount of people will be interested, and most them will be tinkerers.
IF its something truly groundbreaking, spread it far and wide under cc before a company can steal it from you.
The biggest mistake any inventor makes when having a moment of invention zen, is hide it away till it gets patented, the truly life changing inventions never see the light of day, the original inventor gets killed or made into a crack pot, or gets sued out of owning their own invention.
One of the amazing things about inventing something amazing, or a great idea, is that the inventor spread the idea far and wide, and was not really interested in monetary gain. (at least when they are so poor that they can't patent something at first)
So they get it released and printed far and wide to acquire persona recognition. If you can't patent something, try to make it work for you in the creative commons space, via social recognition.
Set up a plan to release the invention far and wide under CC, if you think it will make waves. Then ride off the wave to gain social recognition.
If that works, you might find investors interested in you and your idea(s).
Then you use that investment money to make other ideas/inventions/patents.
Never let the Greed of inventing, stop you from inventing.
Always
Keep
Moving.
Instead of worrying about making money on it, worry about making it better, and making your old version obsolete.
They key to inventing is: give all but one of your inventions away free to mankind.
Keep the last big one for your self when you can afford to defend it.
Patents originated with the intention of promoting the progress of science and the useful arts by rewarding the inventor with exclusive rights to that invention for a period of time. The idea was to avoid having information and ideas vanish with the death of the inventor. What the system does now is line the pockets of lawyers, patent trolls, and corporations.
Makes me think the old joke " What is 200 lawyers at the bottom of a lake? A good start!" is apropos.
"Patent Pending" cannot be legally displayed unless the U.S. Patent Office has acknowledged receipt of the relevant patent filing. "Patent Pending" is often used as protection (if one has the money to pursue it) for "inventions" that one knows will never be approved by the U.S. Patent Office.
Most of the information in this thread is accurate. My experience is that patents always cost more than initially quoted; big companies often ignore the patents assigned to small companies or individuals because it costs a LOT of money to prosecute patent infringement claims in court; and it always takes a long time to prosecute patent infringment in U.S. courts.
Are patents "worth it?" The advice given in this thread, both pro and con, is relevant.
--Bill
This doesn't get you a patent, but does provide solid evidence of when your idea was first conceived and you might have some legal leverage that way depending on how your documents were filed and notarized.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acknowledgment_(law)
-Phil
There is no reason why you can't use that money to develop the idea and present it to Ford/GM/Whomever under a non-disclosure agreement instead.
Oh... be careful there... taking only part of the sentence changes the whole meaning. The entire sentence is "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;"
Which means exactly what I said. It promotes science by allowing the individual inventor a period of time (that is not indefinite) to the exclusive rights, so that the public, as a whole, can benefit once that time period elapses. If the person takes the idea to the grave with them, then society doesn't benefit at all.
Bill
-Phil
I confess. I looked it up in Wikipedia and the part I quoted was the quote at the top of the page. I did not read further to find the rest of the clause.
I wanted to stress that patents should be for the good of society in general.
I think you explained it well in your last post.
Duane
I believe that it was possible for Watt to make a cross-licensing deal with regard the crankshaft patent but I can think of a few reasons why he did not want to:
1) Being a clever guy he could not stomach exchanging his "clever" idea about steam condensers, developed over a number of years, with the mind bendingly "obvious" idea of the crankshaft that took no effort on the part of the patent holder.
2) Being a clever guy he determined he could think his way around the problem. Which he did by using the sun and planet gear idea instead.
3) Perhaps he decided the value of the patent offered for licensing was not worth the cost.
4) Perhaps it was a simple case of the "not invented here" syndrome.
I don't really know, I just have a feeling that 1) is likely.
Phil I am always doing engineering work and It seems that there is always a NDA. Why don't you sign them, whats the pros and cons of a NDA? I figured if I refused to sign the NDA I would never have work.
Actually, Phil, they do it all the time. I've had several discussions with the big three about various technologies that were not patented. Attorneys are very good at finding a middle ground that works for both sides.
Bill