Is a DIY radiation detector possible using memory devices such as EEPROMs, SD cards?

ElectricAye

I think nuclear radiation is capable of messing with bits inside computer devices, so I've been wondering if memory devices such as EEPROMs, SD cards, Flash Memory, etc. could be re-purposed as crude, DIY rad detectors. If the memories were purposely filled with all 1's and then periodically scanned for rad-induced errors, could that make for a detector?

I know geiger tubes and scintillation counters are very expensive and probably outside the price range of most people fiddling around, but I thought maybe memory devices could work this way. Different types of radiation might need copper or other forms of material wrapped around the memories to convert one type of radiation into some other type that is more likely to interact with the electronics, but maybe something could be done with this???

Clock Loop

I have a geiger counter, and it periodically detects a particle hit, 10 to 20 per minute or so.

If this activity could be repeated in silicon form, then sure, but consider what your trying to do.

A normal detector senses the elevated electron state of a gas under negative pressure at high voltages.

When the high energy particle hits the gas, it creates extra free ions in the form of electrons.

The gates on semiconductor circuits would be flipping out if this kind of radiation actually caused memory gates to flip state. The size of current memory technology wouldn't allow the detection of the kind of radiation that would have already killed everyone around the memory "detector" A process much smaller and much more dense would be needed to create a silicon detector.

Using CCD's or sensors that are sensitive to high energy particles might be the way to go.

Take 6 HD camera ccd's, point them in all directions, mount this in a enclosure that filters out unwanted forms of radiation, except your target particle.?

Or something like a ccd sensor that has a high dense package of "sensors" made to detect slight changes and amplify them.

I think the finest process technology we have is microprocessor chips. But the problem is they are encased in metal slugs and ceramic with massive metal heatsinks. So is many types of memories.

A ccd is exposed to the environment.


Making it ideal for alpha particle detection. Apparently we are just in luck for exactly that.

"""I believe the major reason you see the flashes when the detector is exposed to alpha radiation from the 241Am but not from the gamma and beta radiations has to do with the nature of the energy deposition process by the alpha radiation compared to the other types of radiation. As you have demonstrated, using a piece of paper as a shield, the alpha particles have a very short range in condensed materials. Most alpha particles from 241Am have individual energies of about 5.5. million electron volts (MeV), and when one of these alpha particles enters the silicon, it will deposit all of its energy within approximately 20 micrometers (this is not much different from the thickness of silicon used in many CCDs), thus producing a track of very dense ionization, a single alpha particle producing likely between four and five million ionization events. The electrons (and holes) produced may recombine, and this provides the potential to produce a burst of light photons in sufficient intensity to be visualized. """


http://hps.org/publicinformation/ate/q8921.html

Duane Degn

I know I read somewhere about the fear of radiation messing with electronic memory as the density of the devices increased. It turned out rather than making the situation worse the problem practically went away.

This makes me wonder if we should be looking at older ICs to be detecting radiation.

Another thought I've had lately is about my memories of seeing cloud chamber. These cloud chambers would leave traces as radiation passed through them. Different kinds of radiation would leave different kinds of tracks. More info could be learned about the particles by introducing an magnetic field.

I've made a small 6 inch diameter cloud chamber myself with alcohol, black ink, bright light source, dry ice and a nice clear container.

I've wondered if a cloud chamber could be made with some sort of machine vision to detect the about and kind of radiation present. I don't think this would be an easy task. Cloud chamber are pretty finicky. It would require temperature control to keep the alcohol at the correct temperature (cold enough to easily condense but not so cold it freezes).

localroger

I went to the International Science Fair answering this question in 1981! Short answer is "no." My father was a nuclear physicist and had access to some radiation sources. I built an assembly to count soft errors in a static RAM chip as it sat under a fairly powerful nuclear X-ray source ("hard" X-rays are between "soft" X-rays used in medicine and gamma rays in energy; they're more likely to hit an atom and do damage than higher energy rays). When I got no results I took apart my computer, sat the source on its state of the art bank of 16K RAM chips for three weeks, and still got no errors. Extrapolating for energies and future reductions in component size, I predicted soft errors due to radiation would not be a significant problem.

(The original soft error problem that was observed in the late 1970's turned out to be due to the ceramics used to make IC cases; they contained a weak beta emitter, and the beta particles hitting the surface of the chip caused the errors. Gamma rays are more likely to pass right through something like the thin layer of active gates on the surface of a chip.)

It was thanks to that project I got to meet the secretary of the Air Force at the Pentagon, and walk around under the Shuttle Orbiter Columbia between its first and second missions in space. The cheese stands alone :-)

Bean

I recently built the Chaney C6986 Geiger Counter Kit.
It was pretty easy to build and it worked great.
I tested it with a source from a smoke detector.

Bean

ElectricAye

localroger wrote: »

I went to the International Science Fair answering this question in 1981! Short answer is "no." ....

Thanks for your inputs on this. I guess that pretty much answers my question about ICs.


To Bean: looks like a nice kit. Too bad there's not something cheaper for the masses.

erco

Parts for the radiation-minded: http://www.electronickitsbychaneyelectronics.com/?utm_source=Electronic+Goldmine+Newsletter&utm_campaign=eb06d451de-Mar18&utm_medium=email

kwinn

IC chips are too small and lack the sensitivity to make viable radiation detection and measurement detectors. Common detectors are sodium iodide crystals, gas filled chambers, liquid filled chambers, silicon detectors, and a plastic whose name eludes me at the moment.

max72

Diamonds are a good option too. Low purity ones have been used. Beware... using your wife's diamond ring is more dangerous than a radiation field....

Massimo

localroger

Here's a page of projects for making radiation detectors with ion chambers, just like Geiger counters, but the ion chambers are at 1 atmosphere of air and so rather easy to build:

http://www.techlib.com/science/ion.html#Neon%20as%20Resistor

RickB

Chaney Electronics seems to be the same as Electronic Goldmine, but with a subset of Goldmines parts.

ElectricAye:
Take a look at this link. You can find the same geiger tube on ebay for less. The rest of the parts are cheap. It can be made on perf board with point to point wiring.

http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G17365

Rick

ElectricAye

Thanks, guys. I know a little bit about setting up tubes and so forth, but I was curious about the possibility of making some kind of solid state gizmo that could be done cheaply with readily available gadgets. Those DIY ionization chambers are news to me, however. Cool stuff!

Beau Schwabe

At first I thought there might be something you could do in a differential mode with two of the radioactive elements from a smoke detector, but I came across this and thought it might be more applicable for a DIY'r.

http://www.techlib.com/science/ion.html

localroger

Um, Beau, did you see my comment directly above? :-)

ElectricAye

localroger wrote: »

Um, Beau, did you see my comment directly above? :-)

That's pretty funny. But I got caught by that too. Roger, your link happens to open the page at the Nuclear War Detector anchor (or whatever the html code is called) and Beau's opened up at the very top of the page. For a little while I thought they were different, too.

Thanks, guys. I now have an embarrassment of riches. :-)

Beau Schwabe

localroger,

Oops! ... my bad, obviously I didn't see it.

Bean

I had read somewhere that you could use a neon bulb with the voltage JUST below what it takes to light it. I never tried it though.

Bean

ElectricAye

Apparently there is a way to use fluorescent bulbs, too. But it sounds a bit touchy.

http://www.hardhack.org.au/book/export/html/44

Humanoido

Bean wrote: »

I recently built the Chaney C6986 Geiger Counter Kit.
It was pretty easy to build and it worked great.
I tested it with a source from a smoke detector.
Bean

Bean, what is your Geiger Counter showing for radiation levels now above ambient in PA?

ElectricAye

Humanoido wrote: »

Bean, what is your Geiger Counter showing for radiation levels now above ambient in PA?

I don't know how good this is, but I saw this recently:

http://www.blackcatsystems.com/RadMap/map.html

http://www.enviroreporter.com/2011/03/enviroreporter-coms-radiation-station/