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Sad- why has no one done this with a prop — Parallax Forums

Sad- why has no one done this with a prop

HannoHanno Posts: 1,130
edited 2011-03-03 21:20 in Propeller 1
32 bit 128k micro computer with vga output, sd card and 20
configurable io pins.
http://members.iinet.net.au/~geoffg/maximite.html

Should have been done with the Prop ages ago...
Hanno

Comments

  • David BetzDavid Betz Posts: 14,516
    edited 2011-03-02 13:40
    We can do this already by loading FemtoBasic onto the C3 or soon by loading my xbasic. Of course you are limited to 64k of SRAM on the C3 but the xbasic interpreter fits easily into the 1mb flash chip. Also, on jazzed's upcoming MicroPropPC you'll have access to 32mb of SDRAM for really large Basic programs.
  • David BetzDavid Betz Posts: 14,516
    edited 2011-03-02 13:46
    Hmmmm... I guess the C3 probably won't be a match for this since it contains a PIC32 processor. That will almost certainly run its Basic interpreter faster than the Propeller can run xbasic since xbasic is written in C and must be run out of external memory.
  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2011-03-02 14:00
    David,
    Although it will get you better press to be able to quote raw execution speeds with a Basic interpreter running in a single PIC32 microprocessor, practically it may not make any difference since the really time critical operations of the C3 can be done using multiple processors. You may be able to move some time-critical portions of the interpreter into PASM and get some substantial speed improvements that way.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2011-03-02 14:21
    The PIC32 is running at the maximum 80 MHz. It has some very nice features, such as single-cycle 32-bit multiply and hardware division. The smaller ones are a lot cheaper than the Propeller.
  • David BetzDavid Betz Posts: 14,516
    edited 2011-03-02 14:22
    I guess we need the Propeller 2 to compete with that.
  • Dr_AculaDr_Acula Posts: 5,484
    edited 2011-03-02 14:23
    Should have been done with the Prop ages ago...

    The Dracblade can do much of this. 512k of program space (vs 128k on the maximite), and the video is color (the maximite is monochrome). What else? The dracblade has two serial ports, the maximite has none. Dracblade has mouse support, the maximite has none. Dracblade can drive a 20x4 display as well, for those applications where a big VGA monitor is impractical. And we have a number of dialects of Basic - Propbasic, Femtobasic, BCX Basic, Microsoft Basic, BBC Basic. Plus we have C, and Spin and Forth and Fortran etc etc.

    And if you want more I/O, the C3 can do even more than the Dracblade.

    The only thing missing really is interest from Silicon Chip magazine. A while back I wrote a two page letter to Leo Simpson and he replied with a one line comment essentially saying "no thanks".

    It is a pity because there is very little publicity for the Propeller in Silicon Chip magazine. No ads. No articles. So Australian electronics enthusiasts are not really hearing much about the Propeller.
  • David BetzDavid Betz Posts: 14,516
    edited 2011-03-02 14:27
    Dr_Acula wrote: »
    The Dracblade can do much of this. 512k of program space (vs 128k on the maximite), and the video is color (the maximite is monochrome).

    I think the PIC32 they are using has 512k of flash as well as the 128k of SRAM.
  • HannoHanno Posts: 1,130
    edited 2011-03-02 14:36
    Dr_acula's post gets closest to my feelings. A similar thing to maximite can be done with the Prop- maybe someone already has, but no one ever hears about it.
  • David BetzDavid Betz Posts: 14,516
    edited 2011-03-02 14:39
    The article you mentioned doesn't really make a point of talking about the PIC32 directly. Maybe someone should make something like this with a Propeller and just talk about it as a "Basic box" rather than "look at what the cool Propeller chip can do". To some extent, I suppose people won't care what chip is in the box as long as it does what they want.
  • SapiehaSapieha Posts: 2,964
    edited 2011-03-02 14:55
    Hi Hanno.

    Have You looked on Bill Hennings ---- PropCade?

    Hanno wrote: »
    32 bit 128k micro computer with vga output, sd card and 20
    configurable io pins.
    http://members.iinet.net.au/~geoffg/maximite.html

    Should have been done with the Prop ages ago...
    Hanno
  • Dr_AculaDr_Acula Posts: 5,484
    edited 2011-03-02 15:13
    I think the PIC32 they are using has 512k of flash as well as the 128k of SRAM.

    A few years ago when I used to look at chip specs I considered the flash as important. Now I only look at the sram, and the reason is that with an SD card, the flash memory of a chip effectively becomes gigabytes. That applies to the maximite board as well as to the propeller. Plus, if you ever wear out internal flash the chip is dead, whereas if you wear out an sd card with too many rewrites, put a new one in.

    The Pic32 does have some interesting features that Parallax no doubt will be looking at. The block diagram shows Ethernet. And I'd like to know if the USB is slave only or if it is Host as well.

    I think it is software now that sells me in favour of the propeller. The author of the maximite describes spending weeks getting Basic to run on a chip that prefers C. And he only has one dialect of Basic. How many dialects has Humanoido collected now?

    I sent off a note to Silicon Chip asking if they are interested in doing an article on the Propeller.
  • TubularTubular Posts: 4,717
    edited 2011-03-02 15:33
    Drac,

    I have spoken several people around this country about their experiences dealing with SC. Several have put considerable effort in trying to pique their interest, only to be disappointed like yourself. You're not alone. I'd be interested in what you sent them.

    The harsh reality of need for advertising could explain some of this. Also I suspect they need regular contributors rather than just one-offs. I would like to see some information from SC regarding what kind of articles they are hungry for.
  • David BetzDavid Betz Posts: 14,516
    edited 2011-03-02 15:40
    Dr_Acula wrote: »
    I think it is software now that sells me in favour of the propeller. The author of the maximite describes spending weeks getting Basic to run on a chip that prefers C. And he only has one dialect of Basic. How many dialects has Humanoido collected now?
    Ummm... I suspect that the PIC32 can run any language that is written in C or C++ that will fit in its memory and that is probably almost every open source language that exists.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2011-03-02 15:53
    Dr_Acula wrote: »

    The Pic32 does have some interesting features that Parallax no doubt will be looking at. The block diagram shows Ethernet. And I'd like to know if the USB is slave only or if it is Host as well.

    It has USB OTG. Here are the chip details:

    http://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/Devices.aspx?dDocName=en545654
  • $WMc%$WMc% Posts: 1,884
    edited 2011-03-02 17:14
    Just run EmbeddedBaisc in PropBasic on your C3
    '
    SuperFast
  • HollyMinkowskiHollyMinkowski Posts: 1,398
    edited 2011-03-02 17:16
    That maximite computer looks very nice.

    It would be even better with a Prop on the board alongside the PIC32.

    Just a few dollars more and raises it up to 9 processors and gives you
    multiple precision timers and more options for video and audio. I say the
    prop is often best used as an add-on processor or as a black-box video-audio
    engine.
  • jazzedjazzed Posts: 11,803
    edited 2011-03-02 17:59
    HollyMinkowski wrote: »
    That maximite computer looks very nice.

    It would be even better with a Prop on the board alongside the PIC32.

    Just a few dollars more and raises it up to 9 processors and gives you
    multiple precision timers and more options for video and audio. I say the
    prop is often best used as an add-on processor or as a black-box video-audio
    engine.
    One of my intentions is to create a MicroPic32-PC after finishing MicroProp-PC.
    I'm fond of the PIC32 chip because it's basically a MIPS microprocessor.
    MicroAvr32-PC and MicroARM-PC are also on the radar.

    Here's the original MicroProp-PC thread.
  • David BetzDavid Betz Posts: 14,516
    edited 2011-03-02 18:06
    jazzed wrote: »
    One of my intentions is to create a MicroPic32-PC after finishing MicroProp-PC.
    I'm fond of the PIC32 chip because it's basically a MIPS microprocessor.
    MicroAvr32-PC and MicroARM-PC are also on the radar.

    Yes but will they have a Propeller chip as well as the PIC32, AVR32, or ARM?
  • jazzedjazzed Posts: 11,803
    edited 2011-03-02 18:17
    David Betz wrote: »
    Yes but will they have a Propeller chip as well as the PIC32, AVR32, or ARM?
    Yes
  • David BetzDavid Betz Posts: 14,516
    edited 2011-03-02 18:28
    jazzed wrote: »
    Yes

    Excellent! I can't wait.
  • HannoHanno Posts: 1,130
    edited 2011-03-02 20:50
    Looking forward to your MicroProp-PC!
    Hanno
  • HumanoidoHumanoido Posts: 5,770
    edited 2011-03-02 22:27
    Hanno wrote: »
    32 bit 128k micro computer with vga output, sd card and 20
    configurable io pins.
    http://members.iinet.net.au/~geoffg/maximite.html
    Should have been done with the Prop ages ago...
    Hanno
    Hanno, HYDRA is very close to this.
    I have created a 32 bit 512K (+128K) micro computer with SD card, running Femtobasic
    with keyboard, TV, plus enclosure. It's not too difficult to utilize a Demo Board for
    similar configurations.
  • AleAle Posts: 2,363
    edited 2011-03-03 03:20
    You have the hive retro computer... it has been doing that for a while... with 3 propellers :)
  • HannoHanno Posts: 1,130
    edited 2011-03-03 21:20
    Humanoido- yes, I have a feeling that this should be doable with the Propeller- especially with one of the multi-propeller setups to increase memory. I'm not saying that maximize is the best thing since sliced bread, but it is a nice app for a micro. When I first saw it I thought for sure that a Propeller was powering it- after all- most of the pieces are there- SD card reader, VGA/TV graphics, Mouse/KBD support and emulation of hundreds of languages. Chip was also very excited about something like this. Would be great if real world applications of the Propeller got more attention on these forums than infrastructure...
    Hanno
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