Shop OBEX P1 Docs P2 Docs Learn Events
MAKE, you lost me... — Parallax Forums

MAKE, you lost me...

Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
edited 2011-08-02 03:40 in General Discussion
Give me a break..

MAKE Volume 25: The Arduino Revolution!
http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2011/02/make-vol-26-the-arduino-revolution.html

OBC
«134

Comments

  • doggiedocdoggiedoc Posts: 2,245
    edited 2011-02-08 18:06
    I gave up on Make magazine a long time ago. They seem to be in Arduino mode by default. :(

    Paul
  • edited 2011-02-08 18:20
    doggiedoc wrote: »
    I gave up on Make magazine a long time ago. They seem to be in Arduino mode by default. :(

    Paul

    They are an Arduino distributor and I think that Arduino is the only microcontroller they sell. They have a Chinese 6502 computer but basically Arduino is all I can tell they have by looking at their catalog. They aren't the cheapest because their prices are 1-2 dollars higher because they are just reselling from other Arduino sites.
  • doggiedocdoggiedoc Posts: 2,245
    edited 2011-02-08 18:25
    Is Joe Grand still on their technical advisory board?
  • John A. ZoidbergJohn A. Zoidberg Posts: 514
    edited 2011-02-08 18:29
    Chuckz wrote: »
    They are an Arduino distributor and I think that Arduino is the only microcontroller they sell. They have a Chinese 6502 computer but basically Arduino is all I can tell they have by looking at their catalog. They aren't the cheapest because their prices are 1-2 dollars higher because they are just reselling from other Arduino sites.

    Hmm... I'm pretty curious about the 6502 computer. Did they mentioned it in the magazine as well? It reminded me of that knockoff (or you can say fake) mini-computer based on the NES-clone system. :)
  • Martin_HMartin_H Posts: 4,051
    edited 2011-02-08 18:36
    @ChuckZ, No kidding. They are selling the SayIt module for $20 more than Parallax, and the Arduino is six dollars more than elsewhere!

    I've used both the BS2 and Arduino in projects now and I like them both. The built in commands on the BS2 make some things simple that are hard on the Arduino (ex shiftin). Conversely the Arduino is faster and has an ADC built in. But the RAM on the Arduino goes quickly once you link the standard libraries with your program.
  • schillschill Posts: 741
    edited 2011-02-08 18:41
    They carry a few other microcontrollers in addition to a lot of Arduino stuff.

    Based on what's out there on the net, I can't really blame them for concentrating on Arduino for that issue (and in the store). I don't think a lot of us fit into Make's target audience for this.

    As far as the Arduino issue goes, if nothing else it provides some ideas about things to do in general - nobody says you have to use an Arduino to do them. But, I don't remember anything particularly interesting in that issue.

    I like Make, but I'm not usually reading it to learn how to do a lot of the electronics they do. A lot of it is out there on the net or something I've already done or could do pretty easily on my own (again, I don't think I'm the target audience for a lot of there articles). I do find some of the other stuff pretty interesting - and I like a lot of there philosophy.

    Anyway, maybe what people need to do is stop just posting stuff here and on the net and submit something to Make. I'm sure some Prop-based articles would be acceptable to them - especially if they were based on "off the shelf" boards like the Gadget Gangster boards, Parallax's proto boards, or the C3. That would provide a more "Arduino-like" perspective for the hardware than something that otherwise would belong in Circuit Cellar.
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2011-02-08 18:43
    I subscribed to Make for one year and did not renew. It was not a good value for the money (too high a subscription rate, too few issues, too few articles of interest).

    -Phil
  • doggiedocdoggiedoc Posts: 2,245
    edited 2011-02-08 18:53
    schill wrote: »
    - nobody says you have to use an Arduino to do them.
    But I'm not smart enough to translate!!:lol:


    Anyway, maybe what people need to do is stop just posting stuff here and on the net and submit something to Make. I'm sure some Prop-based articles would be acceptable to them - especially if they were based on "off the shelf" boards like the Gadget Gangster boards, Parallax's proto boards, or the C3.
    Excellent point!

    Paul
  • John A. ZoidbergJohn A. Zoidberg Posts: 514
    edited 2011-02-08 18:59
    I almost bought that Make Magazine book from Borders! But too bad, I was short of moolah so I bought that other microcontroller book to satisfy my curiosity.

    I remembered they used other microcontroller system besides Arduino? :D
  • rod1963rod1963 Posts: 752
    edited 2011-02-08 19:03
    It's a good magazine for the beginning electronics and controller enthusiast whose probably a artist at heart but not uber geeks. In a lot of ways it reminds me of the old "Popular Mechanics" & "popular electronics" before the former morphed into a magazine for human spuds and the later that ceased publication.

    As to it's lack of Prop articles, like one of the previous posters stated, start submitting articles to them. It's one way to improve Prop visibility and get a little $$ for your work as well.
  • iDaveiDave Posts: 252
    edited 2011-02-08 20:38
    Wow, this so weird cause I was thinking of starting a thread tonite on how the arduino craze was starting bug the hell out a me. Make: is arduino this and arduino that! It really burns my bisquits! (my favorite whitism) Maybe if I was just starting out raw today I would go that way ...but ..well ..I've been parallaxed! The education materials (free) and great forum support here got me started in this maddening hobby and I'll remain loyal. I also use picaxe (for itty bitty jobs) and the Ti msp430, but 80% of what I know I've learned from you guys...so thx
  • Clock LoopClock Loop Posts: 2,069
    edited 2011-02-08 21:32
    Duh, the senior editor of make is Phillip Torrone. http://braincraft.com/ If watch the "Ask An Engineer" show on adafruit.com, all they talk about is the Arduino. (phill and lady ada)

    I personally can't stand that the arduino is packaged like a pack of cigarettes (intentionally of course)

    One time they put my BlackBox sequencer on their blog, (im surprised because it had 4 propeller chips in it) So they aren't all one sided, but I rarely hear them talk about the prop, or any parallax products on their "ask an engineer" show.

    And don't expect makezine to do any better.

    CL
  • W9GFOW9GFO Posts: 4,010
    edited 2011-02-08 22:10
    About seven years ago I had the displeasure of speaking with, then was subsequently twice stood up by that editor, after he had sought me out. ... He's not the type of person that I wish to be associated with.

    Now, my first impression could have been wrong - but what about the second and third? Maybe I caught him on a bad day, several times.

    Rich H
  • bsnutbsnut Posts: 521
    edited 2011-02-09 00:09
    I am in 100% agreement with all of you. This processor is no match for the Propeller or even Comfile's chip that handles Basic and Ladder Logic at the same time.

    The only thing that I like about it, that it has built in ADC. But, the Comfile's chip has built in ADC and are easy to use, as well as the Parallax's products.
  • edited 2011-02-09 07:58
    Hmm... I'm pretty curious about the 6502 computer. Did they mentioned it in the magazine as well? It reminded me of that knockoff (or you can say fake) mini-computer based on the NES-clone system. :)

    I looked in their catalog and they don't sell it anymore. They sell the Stingray and the Propeller Proto boards.

    Their business model is events. They sell spots at these places you can google like "Hackerspace" along with the name of your city. Basically, if you have money to rent one of these spaces long term then they have you locked in as a customer and it is convenient to buy what is right there. They are mainly selling Arduinos so that is the only product you can buy. They are going for the high end money with the lowest common denominator product (anyone can do it) and they have customers locked in because they are paying for membership which is essentially renting space to work.
  • RavenkallenRavenkallen Posts: 1,057
    edited 2011-02-09 09:30
    Yeah, i was at Borders a week ago and i saw the new Make magazine on the shelf. I was like, hey cool. Then i started to read through it and i was kinda disappointed with their Arduino-mania. Practically everything in there had to do with a Arduino. I still like Make, but i don't really appreciate their excessive evangelizing of the Arduino. I have a Arduino, but i only use it if i need quick connection to a ADC. I choose the Propeller for ALL of my larger projects and Picaxe for my small projects(I might eventually learn to program a real PIC, but i can't seem to find all of what i need). The C language is the hardest to learn. Spin is SO much easier!!! Long live the Propeller:)
  • schillschill Posts: 741
    edited 2011-02-09 10:11
    Yeah, i was at Borders a week ago and i saw the new Make magazine on the shelf. I was like, hey cool. Then i started to read through it and i was kinda disappointed with their Arduino-mania. Practically everything in there had to do with a Arduino.

    Guys [1]: Don't forget that this was a specific Arduino issue. They went out of their way to put as much Arduino stuff in it as they could.

    [1] In a traditional New Jersey sense which includes male and female readers.
  • HollyMinkowskiHollyMinkowski Posts: 1,398
    edited 2011-02-09 10:36
    The only real problem with Arduino is they don't have a a prop chip
    on board to handle video/audio/precision timing. The poor little Atmega
    uc is overburdened by multiple levels of interrupt routines to do anything
    useful and has zero time to handle audio or video generation well.
  • rod1963rod1963 Posts: 752
    edited 2011-02-09 11:13
    Slamming Arduino because you don't like it won't make it go away. The Ardunio is popular because it's easy to use and it's target audience are artists and other creative types who like to do things with electronics but not to the extent of the Prop crowd.

    All in all it's a nice set up. If I was getting getting someone involved in controllers today I'd use the Arduino. It's C is easy to use and there are a boatload of add on boards available. 10 years ago I'd have used the BS2 but it's getting long in the tooth.

    That said, if you guys don't like what articles Make runs, start writing articles for them that use the Prop.
  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2011-02-09 11:28
    Holly,
    How about Andre's AVR Chameleon (here)? It's got an AVR that runs Arduino code plus a Propeller wired up so it can be used as an I/O processor or stand-alone.
  • Martin HodgeMartin Hodge Posts: 1,246
    edited 2011-02-09 17:52
    rod1963 wrote: »
    Slamming Arduino because you don't like it won't make it go away.

    ...

    That said, if you guys don't like what articles Make runs, start writing articles for them that use the Prop.

    Yes, yes, yes! Bemoaning the fact that MAKE does an Arduino-only issue is like getting angry because Entertainment Tonight does stories about American Idol. Everybody loves Arduino. That is a fact. Instead of crying in your beer, help promote the Propeller by building things and promoting your things somewhere other than here.

    >>For Example<<
  • John A. ZoidbergJohn A. Zoidberg Posts: 514
    edited 2011-02-09 20:34
    Hmm... We need to send as much Propeller tutorials to the Make magazine. As Prop and Spin is begineer friendly, I will see Make's gonna implement it soon. :)
  • potatoheadpotatohead Posts: 10,261
    edited 2011-02-09 21:45
    I see it more simply. The more people doing things with micros, the bigger the hobby small time pro ecosystem is. The bigger it is, the more prospects we have for Propellers. Some of those people are gonna want to push it, and when they do, good things could happen.
  • RavenkallenRavenkallen Posts: 1,057
    edited 2011-02-10 09:57
    @Martin Hodge.... Can't a guy complain???:)... I should have mentioned that MAKE as a whole, seems to be dedicated more to the Arduino. THAT said, i still like some of the articles they have in their magazine. I really liked the last issue about the space exploration experiments. That balloon project was pretty neat.
  • HollyMinkowskiHollyMinkowski Posts: 1,398
    edited 2011-02-10 09:57
    Mike Green wrote: »
    Holly,
    How about Andre's AVR Chameleon (here)? It's got an AVR that runs Arduino code plus a Propeller wired up so it can be used as an I/O processor or stand-alone.

    Yes, that's a really nice looking board...I love seeing a sm prop on board with
    an AVR or ARM :-)
    cham_avr_pcb_top_04_main.jpg


    If I were adding a prop to an Arduino I think I would have it be a simple black-box that
    would handle video and audio. The Arduino is aimed at artistic types and there is no
    reason to make them have to delve into programming the prop at all. Of course for the
    geeks they could play with the prop if they got the urge.
    442 x 231 - 56K
  • SRLMSRLM Posts: 5,045
    edited 2011-02-10 09:58
    I'm teaching Arduino to a group of college kids because they have already learned C++, we use the AVR as our standard uC here at school, and the board costs $30 instead of $50 (important when we do our own fundraising and buy 10 boards). Even if I wanted to teach the Propeller and Spin we would lose most of the volunteers / interested people since "they would have to learn a new language". There is an unfortunate stigma that new languages are difficult, but I have to work with what I have. Most of the kids are only hanging in by a thread anyway, since they've never done a full electro-mechanical-programming project before (micromouse robot). In any case, for my personal project I will be using a protoboard.

    Personally I like Make, not because of the Arduino focus but because the projects are fun and inspirational. I don't reject it just because of an Arduino bias.
  • HollyMinkowskiHollyMinkowski Posts: 1,398
    edited 2011-02-10 10:04
    BTW, here is the description of the Propeller from MAKE 25.

    The Propeller is Parallax’
    multi-processor controller.

    It’s very powerful computa-
    tionally, able to do multiple
    tasks at once by running
    8 processors simultaneously.

    It’s available as modules or
    bare processors and it can
    do a lot: video, music play-
    back, and more.
    It’s not great
    for beginners, but for the
    experienced programmer
    it’s impressive.

    Runs on: Windows (third-
    party application available
    for Mac OS X and Linux)

    Requires: Prop Plug, $15,
    plus clock crystal, assorted
    support components

    Inputs/outputs: 32
    Languages: Spin

    Getting Started guides:
    There is no Getting Started
    guide. Reference manual is
    very thorough, but it’s not
    for the beginner; assumes
    familiarity with computer
    architecture and assembly
    language syntax.

    Knowledge base:
    Plentiful examples on •
    Parallax site, and some
    user-generated code on the
    web — but not many basic
    examples

    Pros:
    Inexpensive to get started •
    Multiple-core processor •
    allows multitasking and
    other complex functions

    Cons:
    Requires more circuit- •
    making ability than
    programmable modules
    Language is too compli- •
    cated for beginners — more
    like assembly language than
    any of the others
  • Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
    edited 2011-02-10 10:41
    @SRLM:

    Having an educational background, I can certainly understand where you are coming from..

    Some ideas for you to ponder..

    Wulfden: Shoppe's Rock Bottom Propeller Kit. (Requires a programmer (He's got some at $5.00)) & Breadboard
    Total outlay per student is around $27.00

    Of course there's also the Parallax Protoboard $25.00 (Add Wufden's P1 Programmer) for a full kit.
    Solder in some female pin headers and you've got much more than the Ardunio.

    You can keep the costs out of the $50.00 range.
  • Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
    edited 2011-02-10 10:42
    btw, here is the description of the propeller from make 25.


    cons:
    Requires more circuit- •
    making ability than
    programmable modules
    language is too compli- •
    cated for beginners — more
    like assembly language than
    any of the others

    total rubbish!
Sign In or Register to comment.