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C3 Full Kit and Questions — Parallax Forums

C3 Full Kit and Questions

KMyersKMyers Posts: 433
edited 2011-02-08 10:57 in Propeller 1
Hello Everyone and thanks for reading. Generaly I am a lurker here but have learned a lot from reading the guru's here. Received the Full kit last tuesday, great item kept me busy all week! Thanks to all involved with its development and getting it to market, Great job everyone. A special thanks to Kristina S.@ Parallax for her correcting my order mess up.

The product is high quality, great working software and documentation. Now comes the rub! T have several questions.

1) The test suite will sometimes indicate a failed Flash, other times its ok after I dl another program to the props ram.. After this a reboot, run the suite from rom and its ok and passes. Also if I run the program to write/read the flash I get NO errors. I have reflashed the rom, so any ideas or suggestions will be appreciated!

2) If I want to power from a Wall Wart all the time with the USB cable attached what do I need to do? I admit I havent studdied the schematics very well but I am more of an RF man vs the digital. Any comments welcome!
Off to get Zog or Catalina running on it!

Thanks in advance..

Comments

  • AndreLAndreL Posts: 1,004
    edited 2011-02-05 15:38
    Hmmm --- on

    1. It could be a number of things. A tiny bug in my test code (which I haven't seen), there is a slightly cold solder joint on the flash, or the flash is bad. If you feel comfortable with soldering, I would put some flux on the FLASH and re-heat the pins then spray the board with some electronics wash and blow it off. And just clean the board in general, you never know if there is some metal making a tinie tiny short or arc between pins, I have seen hair like micro fibers cause intermitent shorts before.

    2. You don't have to do anything, 9V DC, tip +, ring -. 2.1MM, 300mA or greater, it will be fine, however, if you want extra safety then plug the C3 into a hub to isolate it from the PC. But, plugging the external power and USB as the same time won't cause any damage.

    As far as ZOG and catalina, should be as easy as downloading the code and reading the docs, seems like these things are working now pretty well.

    Andre'
  • KMyersKMyers Posts: 433
    edited 2011-02-06 09:43
    Thanks Andre' for the quick reply! I sould have thought about checking for the solder. Fought that kind of a problen in a RF amp. Can make strange system response and distortions. Unfortunately most of my soldering days are behind me but I will take a look and see what I can tell tomorrow after the Super Bowl.

    On a hub can you stop power on a specific port and if so how? Is my RF life showing again?

    Once again thanks and I love the board!
  • AndreLAndreL Posts: 1,004
    edited 2011-02-06 13:44
    On hubs you can't control the power. A hub is just a repeater and multiplexer with power to each port, so you can turn 1 USB into 4-8 USBs and power them from an external supply rather than your computer. Thus, a hub's usb ports are isolated from the PC and if you were to short the power, etc. on a hub port, worst case you damaged a $5 hub, or a 50 cent port is down and the others are fine.

    So, in general when working with hobby embedded systems that you are wiring circuits to, use a USB hub, just to be safe. And you get the second benefit you can draw much larger amount of current per ports, since your PC is not supplying the power.

    Andre
  • KMyersKMyers Posts: 433
    edited 2011-02-07 11:00
    Andre'
    Thanks for the reply on the hubs they work like I thought just hopeing I could disable a specific port, I always hated power contention problems. I do have it run through a hub.

    In examining the traces on the board they all look a little dull so I assume its the lead free solder? Some interesting additional observations. If I send the test suite to prop ram I never get a flash failure! I tried this anout 10 + times. If I send it to EEPROM then it fails 75% of time. However if once in EEPROM and I press the reset button I never get a failure, Power off, wait then power on it fails again. What am I doing wrong? Also I loaded Spinix into EEPRON and SD card no issues???

    Thanks again!
  • AndreLAndreL Posts: 1,004
    edited 2011-02-07 11:29
    Hmmm -- that's interesting? First, yes, the boards should be all ROHS and lead free solder. Parallax did the manufacturing in house, so they know better than me. Now, the thing with the EEPROM is interesting, sounds a little like the EEPROM might be the problem and there's the cold solder joint, or bad unit. One thing to try is to load the EEPROM with a binary, then compare it to what it should be and see if some bits are flipped. Sounds like everything is working, but maybe you have a flaky eeprom, and that's what the problem is and the code just happens to glitch on the FLASH test portion of the binary. However, I would probably say that even if one byte was wrong the SPIN interpreter would crash, but you never know, a single constant could get a bit flipped, that would still work, but not do what its supposed to do.

    However, don't focus too much on the test program. Also, try a hub, or another USB port for kicks, the programming technique for the Prop is based on TIME and time is very flaky with USB ports, and it could be a timing issue that is causing this, so try another USB port, or get a $5 hub at the store (which is good to have anyway).

    Andre'
  • KMyersKMyers Posts: 433
    edited 2011-02-07 11:53
    Once again Thanks! I feel the problem is solved with pressing reset after the dl. Seems I read someplace you should do that after dl'ing to EEPROM.

    So if I run the C3 through a USB hub I am safe powering the C3 from a wall wart?

    Thanks for your patience!!!
  • AndreLAndreL Posts: 1,004
    edited 2011-02-07 17:11
    You are safe powering the C3 from a wall wart as is. But, like anything, if you SHORT the power, you can damage the USB since you will over power it, shouldn't damage it, but do you want to stress your PC ? No. So, that's why I say if you really hacking the C3 and putting wires all over it and messing with the power a hub is a nice buffer and safer. But, right now, take a 9V DC wall wart 2.1mm tip +, ring -, have the USB plugged in. Then plug the wall wart in. Then unplug the USB, it will continue to work, then plug the USB back in (it will reset, due to USB) then reboot and continue to work, then remove the wall wart power and it will continue to work.

    But, my policy is that if you are hacking hardware, even a parallel port, I NEVER use the built int parallel port, I spend $19 and get a PCI parallel port card, that way if I short something I don't damage my mother board.

    That's all - we aren't end users and we are sticking things on these dev kits and experimenting and might do something we are not supposed to, thus a modicum of insurance can't hurt. That said, if you aren't mucking around using the external and USB at the same time will be fine if you just want to "see" it work. I have been using it like that for over a year, and over 1000 units are out there with this power design not one has failed. Even works with XBOX 360, Macs, etc. with USB + external power all combos.

    Andre'
  • KMyersKMyers Posts: 433
    edited 2011-02-08 09:05
    Yes, everything is falling into place! I do have it connected to a hub so I should be good to go. I was always know in my companies as a conservative in my designs so I tend to check power and layouts many times and it has saved me many times.

    Thanks again and the C3 is a great board!
  • max72max72 Posts: 1,155
    edited 2011-02-08 09:47
    Do you have the same upload problem with other prop products?
    Windows or Linux?
  • KMyersKMyers Posts: 433
    edited 2011-02-08 10:57
    No, no problems with my PPDB nor my proto boards. I use Proptool and sometimes BST. Unfortunately I use vista...
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