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Is the HYDRA my next step? — Parallax Forums

Is the HYDRA my next step?

RonPRonP Posts: 384
edited 2011-01-27 14:26 in Propeller 1
Hello All,

A question for you all. I have been through the PEK Labs and have messed around with my demo board and different Objects out of the OBEX. I have the Propeller Manual and the other 2 books which have a lot of information but i don't have a lot of the hardware for most of the exercises in the books. Do you think the HYDRA is a good next step for a better understanding of SPIN and the PROP? I don't have any formal Education in Programming or Engineering and I benefit most from structured lessons which I think the HYDRA has from the few chapters you can download an view. I ask this because the gaming side of the Prop doesn't interest me much. If I want to play a game I'll fire up console. But if the info in the lessons will better my knowledge of SPIN and PROP I'll get the HYDRA. Or should I spend the money acquiring a bunch of accessories to follow the exercises in the books.

I am leaning towards the HYDRA now. What do you guys think. Maybe I'll like the games.:smile:

Thanks
-Ron

Comments

  • AndreLAndreL Posts: 1,004
    edited 2011-01-24 23:14
    LOL -- well, that's the exact reason I created the HYDRA as an educational kit to teach some programming, graphics, structured in incremental complexity using games and graphics as the learning platform to keep it interesting. And the HYDRA book is the largest most complete treatise on the propeller platform along with the propeller manual itself.

    Andre'
  • RonPRonP Posts: 384
    edited 2011-01-24 23:22
    Andre'

    Well since you put it that way.:smile: There's 30 in stock here we go.

    Thanks

    -Ron
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2011-01-24 23:26
    RonP,

    "...the gaming side of the Prop doesn't interest me much."

    No but. Some of the best programmers I have ever worked with started out creating or hacking around games on things like C64's and Sinclair Spectrums etc.

    I have often suspected that they were not into games much either. Rather "the game" for them was in discovering every corner of the machine they were programming and figuring out all the programming tricks to get it to "jump" as fast as possible.

    All those little tricks and optimizations you need to get games working nicely can of course be very useful in every other application you may tackle.

    The games are just the sand pit where you learn how to build castles:)
  • RonPRonP Posts: 384
    edited 2011-01-24 23:38
    Heater,

    Thanks Heater well said you make a very good point. I would have never thought about it that way. I just ordered one, so look out.:smile:

    -Ron
  • AndreLAndreL Posts: 1,004
    edited 2011-01-24 23:57
    Truthfully, I would say 99% of all programmers start with making games, that's what gets them into computers. Even if its blackjack or guess my number. No one really starts off thinking "hmm, I can't wait to make a parser that scans for keywords in large strings". That said, of that 99% that start off game programming, probably .1% do that for a living since it is so challenging and competitive, but the things you learn making games and doing graphics make you a really good programmer and an optimization expert.

    Andre'
  • RonPRonP Posts: 384
    edited 2011-01-25 00:30
    Being the hobbyist that I am. I have always looked at the HYDRA as a Game Development Platform of which I had no interest in. When the Propeller first came out I was going through WAM. I lost interest in the stamp for quite awhile. Just in the last 6 months or so I have been playing with the Propeller. Its funny just a few months ago I had the HYDRA in my shopping cart at the local FRYS and I put it back because I didn't associate it with helping me much with what I wanted to do with the Propeller. To me the HYDRA says "learn how to make games" and not "learn how to program the Propeller in SPIN and PASM." But what do know about this stuff still trying to learn.:smile:

    -Ron
  • AndreLAndreL Posts: 1,004
    edited 2011-01-25 00:43
    Yes, the HYDRA is about learning to program the propeller, etc. not about making games, but games are used, really "graphics" and media as the example platforms. If it was about making "games" as a goal then it would be 10x more complex. But, as I show you how to do this and that, I use graphics, and media demos, this keeps you interested. Then by the time you try all the stuff you have learned a ton of programming technique and then you can make games or whatever else you want.

    What drove the computer industry in the 70's was games and graphics. People (like me) would sit at their C64, Apple, or Atari, and just type something and get back instant gratification visually via graphics, and this kept you learning. So, using something visual, audio, and media rich as a learning platform is by far the best way to teach complex concepts. For example, if I want to show you how to control a servo and we don't have a servo. We can just print the angle on the screen. But, what if we could draw the servo and see it rotate? That would be pretty cool? Where would you even start to do that? A game programmer knows instantly, and just having that knowledge you can apply it to so many things.

    Anyway, if you don't learn a ton about programming by going thru the HYDRA book and all the examples and theory I would be very surprised. Plus, I promise it won't bore you -- but, its hard stuff, and pushing yourself to learn it really makes other things easy.

    Andre'
  • Duane DegnDuane Degn Posts: 10,588
    edited 2011-01-25 01:02
    Ron,

    I purchased the Hydra a while back (I guess about six mounths ago). I also wasn't that interested in developing games. I'm very happy with my purchase. The book is amazing. It's were all the secrets about how the video stuff works are hiding.

    It's a big book and the binding is not very good. Well that not quite accurate. The binding is awful. It snaps, crackles and pops while you try to read the book. I had to stop reading it in bed because it was so noisy it would bother my wife.

    The solution to the binding problem is to have it spiral bound in two sections. I had mine rebound at a FedEx store (used to be Kinko's). I like having the book in two sections since I only need to hold half the original weight while reading.

    A new section (I think section 3) is just about in the middle of the book. This make a good starting place for the second bound section.

    I wish I had purchased the Hydra ealier in my Propeller education. Andre does an excellent job of presenting technical information in an enjoyable fashion.

    I had planned to by just the book but at the time Parallax was sold out of the books and when the Hydra was put on the deal of the day I purchased the whole system. I'm glad I did. It makes using the examples easier. I don't have to try to modify an example to use with some other board.

    The games are fun too.

    Duane
  • RonPRonP Posts: 384
    edited 2011-01-25 01:13
    Well I now think that the HYDRA is exactly what I need to move forward with my Propeller Education. It all makes perfect sense now. The last week or so I have just been spinning my wheels. Cant wait for the brown truck to arrive.:smile:

    Thanks Andre', Duane and Heater

    -Ron
  • HumanoidoHumanoido Posts: 5,770
    edited 2011-01-25 05:28
    Ron, the HYDRA is a good investment. The book alone is a remarkable wealth of information. HYDRA developed software has many examples ideal for learning code and the associated hardware. The gaming realm can teach things about the display and techniques of programming. It has remarkable memory expansion cards and ideas for a net. I've had lots of fun too, running the included versions of Tiny Basic and exploring the book's tutorials and gaming examples. When I read books, I insert book marks to flag important and useful information. My HYDRA book is filled with many book marks - attestation to one of the most useful documents ever produced.
  • TharkunTharkun Posts: 67
    edited 2011-01-25 13:06
    Duane Degn wrote: »
    The binding is awful. It snaps, crackles and pops while you try to read the book. I had to stop reading it in bed because it was so noisy it would bother my wife.
    Duane

    ...LOL... i had the same problems (with my wife!)

    But the Hydra-book is really great stuff, i ordered it two years ago when starting with the propeller. ! I still sometimes read in it
  • AndreLAndreL Posts: 1,004
    edited 2011-01-25 18:55
    This shouldn't STILL be a problem. When parallax printed the books originally they used a printer that did a really bad job, then they changed as far as I know and the books binding are much better now. But, if anyone has a book that falls apart, just contact parallax support for a replacement, this is not supposed to happen.

    Andre'
  • potatoheadpotatohead Posts: 10,261
    edited 2011-01-26 09:49
    I drilled holes in mine :) Was the early release, and two big ring binders get it done. Honestly, I like it that way.
  • AndreLAndreL Posts: 1,004
    edited 2011-01-26 19:36
    That's a good idea actually, I am amazed you had a drill long enough to make it thru my 800 pages :) I do a lot of printing of books myself from PDFs. I don't think I will ever want to read an "eBook" unless its fiction. When it comes to manuals I like them printed and large books tend to crack the bindings, so even though I like bound books, sometimes I just wish they were spiral so they didn't break. This is why all the manuals we print for Nurve products are spiral bound, just works out nicer and the book lasts longer.

    Andre'
  • potatoheadpotatohead Posts: 10,261
    edited 2011-01-26 19:42
    Yeah, agreed across the board. I would only add that I like to write in the books! Mark up on a PDF just isn't the same.

    As far as the drill goes, just clamp the thing hard! That will make or break getting through the pages.
  • AndreLAndreL Posts: 1,004
    edited 2011-01-26 21:18
    And another thing, the drill bit will get very hot since even as it cuts its still making contact with the walls of the paper and actually you can start the pages on fire and burn them a little black :)

    Andre'
  • zappmanzappman Posts: 418
    edited 2011-01-27 10:36
    AndreL wrote: »
    This shouldn't STILL be a problem. When parallax printed the books originally they used a printer that did a really bad job, then they changed as far as I know and the books binding are much better now. But, if anyone has a book that falls apart, just contact parallax support for a replacement, this is not supposed to happen.

    Andre'

    AndreL,

    I received my Hydra with book, directly from Parallax, in the beginning of December 2010.
    I had heard the book is delicate, so I use as much care as I can when reading it.
    However, after only reading it a few hours, the rear of the cover became detached from the binding, it is just attached with a thin strip of glue. The book has not split into parts or lost any pages yet.

    It is a huge book, with so many pages of great information, I have not seen another book like it.
    One of the reasons I bought the Hydra system was just so I would have the book.
    I also bought the SD card with Adapter, and the Mountain King Pro enclosure, both are very well made, and along with a 7" LCD TV they made my Hydra system complete.

    See the link below, to see how I access the reset switch on the Hydra when it is installed in its enclosure.
    http://www.savagecircuits.com/forums/showthread.php?462-Hydra-Game-System-Enclosure-Reset-Switch-Plunger-Mini-Mod

    I think the Hydra system is a great platform to learn how to program the Propeller micro-controller!

    Thanks for creating the Hydra,

    zappman
  • RonPRonP Posts: 384
    edited 2011-01-27 11:25
    Hello All,

    Thanks for all the pointers on the book, 800 pages WOW. Must be a well written 800 pages because I don't see many questions about the HYDRA. But thats probably cause I haven't gotten mine yet. I must say my current thirst for knowledge on this subject(The Propeller). If the book came as 400 loose pages and the first Chapter was 50 pages of how to put the book together and properly bind it. I would still buy it.:smile: I know no one is suggesting I shouldn't have. If I have any issues with the book I will probably do as others have done.

    I went to Radio Shack this morning a picked up a 7" TV. Now I am going to go sit on the porch the brown truck should be here soon.:smile:

    EDIT: And if the 400 pages were shuffled together.

    -Ron
  • potatoheadpotatohead Posts: 10,261
    edited 2011-01-27 11:29
    LOL!! I know that on the porch drill well. Have fun!
  • max72max72 Posts: 1,155
    edited 2011-01-27 14:26
    I bought the book, alone, and it is a great read. Some aspects are handled in an unique way and really enlightening.
    I wouldn't recommend it to an absolute beginner, but as a "second step" it is a great book.
    Mine is not self disassembling, by the way..
    Massimo
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