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Does lead solder harm you? — Parallax Forums

Does lead solder harm you?

MicrocontrolledMicrocontrolled Posts: 2,461
edited 2010-12-03 01:15 in General Discussion
I'm one of the few that still has leaded solder, and I'm starting to wonder if it has any lasting damage. Is it really worth going unleaded?
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Comments

  • W9GFOW9GFO Posts: 4,010
    edited 2010-11-30 13:36
    Leaded solder is very, very common. Don't eat it and you'll be fine.

    Also, wash your hands after handling and don't breathe the fumes - I'm sure you already knew that.

    Rich H
  • dandreaedandreae Posts: 1,375
    edited 2010-11-30 13:52
    The other aspect is that the leaded solder ends up in the landfill and can potentially harm the environment.

    Dave
  • localrogerlocalroger Posts: 3,452
    edited 2010-11-30 13:55
    It's more about the landfill and constant exposure. In the amounts and ways that hobbyists use leaded solder it's fine, and it works considerably better than lead-free solder for some purposes.
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2010-11-30 14:47
    I'm not sold on the landfill argument. Lead, especially when alloyed with tin in solder, is stable and should not enter the water table from a landfill. Lead was used in plumbing for ages without issue, except where the water was acidic, causing it to react and leach from the pipes. (That's where the the word "plumbing" comes from, BTW: Lead, a.k.a. "plumbum" has the atomic symbol Pb.)

    -Phil
  • Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
    edited 2010-11-30 14:59
    Phil

    Like so many things we have safe (lawyer) guarded ourselves to the point of ridiculousness. I did a study on the effects of lead in the body a while back. I was able to print (2 sided) a stack of materials nearly four inches high, so lead is pretty nasty stuff. Yes, it was a very good idea to remove lead from paint, and if we can convince China to quit painting toys with it even better, but I suspect it is profitable both for litigation, environmentalists, and congress to go past the point of reason.

    Did you ever break open a mercury thermometer and use it to coat a penny when you were a child? The rule in my house was that if you played with it, you had to make sure to wash your hands well before eating. Talking to my local fire chief a while back, he said that if someone broke a thermometer now, and it was reported a hazmat team would be called in to take care of the "spill" after a city block was blocked off. (He wasn't kidding)

    Think of all the jobs that are maintained because of our caution! :)
    Will lead solder in a circuit board break down and leech into our water supply? I doubt it highly, but who dares go against what is PC. :)

    OBC
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2010-11-30 15:20
    OBC,

    'Not to mention all the lead sinkers, jigs, and cannonballs used for fishing that get lost. I'm sure a profitable lead mining operation could be set up just by dredging the bay offshore from where I live. Yet, there it sits, inert and harmless.

    OTOH, banning lead shot for hunting was the right thing to do, since birds do eat the stray pellets, and their stomach acid will dissolve the lead, resulting in lead poisoning.

    -Phil
  • W9GFOW9GFO Posts: 4,010
    edited 2010-11-30 15:34
    OTOH, banning lead shot for hunting was the right thing to do, since birds do eat the stray pellets, and their stomach acid will dissolve the lead, resulting in lead poisoning.

    Isn't the ban only for hunting waterfowl?

    Rich H
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2010-11-30 15:50
    When I was 12 I was in hospital for an appendectomy, and one of the nurses broke a thermometer. I asked her for the mercury, she gave it to me, and I spent an hour or so playing with it on a tray.

    I used to hold solder in my mouth sometimes, if I needed my left hand to hold a component in place while I soldered it.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,260
    edited 2010-11-30 15:57
    And how about all the tire balancing lead weights out there along our motorways? http://leadfreewheels.org/problem.shtml

    @Microcontrolled: Lead solder still flows best, and I bet most of us here still love it and use it regularly; I do! Satellite makers went back to lead solder after finding that many lead-free solders grow tin whiskers in space that can cause short circuits and other problems: http://nepp.nasa.gov/whisker/background/index.htm

    @Rich: Regarding breathing the fumes, I agree it's best to avoid. But I like to think that 99.9 % of the smoke from soldering is the rosin and harmless. The tin/lead mix goes to liquid when soldering, but hopefully the vaporization temperature is much higher.

    Check this article which says that lead-free solders may pose a bigger health risk than our old friend 60/40: http://www.okinternational.com/binary/articles/Lead-free_Fume_Extraction.pdf
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2010-11-30 16:00
    Flux fumes can cause serious lung problems.
  • localrogerlocalroger Posts: 3,452
    edited 2010-11-30 16:12
    My high school chemistry lab had a liter bottle of mercury. It was kept in an unlocked cabinet and people regularly took samples (if they could pick up the bottle, which weighed over 20 pounds).

    The worry from solder is that with very large amounts of electronics going into landfill and the groundwater percolating through, that even relatively stable alloys eventually leach out. I can understand encouraging manufacturers to be ROHS compliant when they're pumping out millions of units that will almost all be discarded in a few years. But nothing we do is in that kind of quantity.

    Even if you don't eat it you can be affected by the fumes if you are constantly exposed, such as working at a factory that does wave soldering. All liquids evaporate and liquid solder is no exception; the amount of lead vapor in the air around your PCB assembly project is miniscule, but it can build up if there is a pool of liquid solder at the bottom of your wave solder machine and you spend 8 hours a day 5 days a week standing next to it.
  • lardomlardom Posts: 1,659
    edited 2010-11-30 16:16
    I grew up around leaded gas and I put on asbestos gloves in metal shop when I was in school. I don't have health problems to speak of. On top of that I've been around my grandfather when he would melt scrap lead in a special pot on the kitchen stove to make lead sinkers. (Yes, it was the '60's).
    I'm aware of the dangers so I take precautions now but I, as a hobbyist, still use leaded solder.
  • Martin_HMartin_H Posts: 4,051
    edited 2010-11-30 16:41
    I always heard it wasn't the lead it was the flux fumes you have to watch out for.

    I agree the ultra-safe pack everyone in nerf patrol is out of hand. When my kids were sandbox age, I went to home depot and bought some bags of play sand. Sand contains silica dust which is carcenogenic when used in sand blasting. So bags are labeled that they contain something known to cause cancer in state of California. Just avoid sand blasting and it is no big deal right?

    Wrong. It turns out there's an industry around putting fear into parents and making "safe sand" which is washed to remove silica dust. Ultra cautious parents acutally buy this stuff at outrageous prices to avoid exposing this child to this danger. I was asked about this several times until my kids aged past sandbox age.

    Now this is sand, one of the most common materials on the surface of the Earth! More silica dust is blowing in the air around you though the day than you'll get exposed to playing in a sand box. But common sense doesn't apply here.

    Erco, since you live in the state of California consider yourself warned!
  • WBA ConsultingWBA Consulting Posts: 2,935
    edited 2010-11-30 17:26
    Ingestion of solder, inhalation of lead particulates, and skin absorption is how lead solder cam harm you. Being in Electronics Manufacturing for 19 years across 4 companies, I have seen a few different methods of safety communication regarding lead. However, it all comes down to common sense. Inhalation of lead particulate matter occurs while dedrossing solderpots, but standard practice requires the use of a respirator so this becomes a null issue.
    In California, we have Prop 65, so each of the doors to the manufacturing floor have the typical Prop 65 disclaimer.

    In comparison to lead free solders, there have been studies that have shown that lead free solder is actually more detrimental to the environment when viewed as an entire process. An easy example of one of the factors is the increased amount of electricity our reflow ovens consume to process lead free at the higher temperatures which increase our carbon footprint. When viewed as a simple material make-up competition, lead free wins every time.....
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2010-11-30 18:31
    W9GFO wrote:
    Isn't the [lead shot] ban only for hunting waterfowl?
    I'm not a hunter, so please educate me: What else would you use a shotgun for (except maybe pirates in the Straits of Malacca)? Okay, I used 00 buckshot once on a car (Pinto) that I hated (photos on request).

    -Phil
  • W9GFOW9GFO Posts: 4,010
    edited 2010-11-30 18:48
    I'm not a hunter, so please educate me: What else would you use a shotgun for

    I'm not a hunter either, though I have hunted. Maybe pheasant, quail, rabbits, skeets...

    Rich H
  • MicrocontrolledMicrocontrolled Posts: 2,461
    edited 2010-11-30 19:20
    Thanks for all the responses.

    I think that in some cases the "lead poisoning" fear is overrated and unneeded, as lead is not a direct poison, as mercury is. The ban on lead shotgun pellets was only for waterfowl, as lead shot is still sold almost everywhere. The lead can supposedly poison fish that may later be consumed. I guess I shouldn't be too worried about my little soldering iron making that much of a difference.

    @Phil: What can you use a shotgun for? Grouse, squirrel, rabbit, turkey, etc. BTW Photos of your car are requested. :-)
  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2010-11-30 19:39
    Ingested lead accumulates, it doesn't metabolise, it's not... excreted. It's toxic and its effects aren't reversible.

    Just a thought. "Microcontrolled" is, afterall, a young person. Children are precisely those who are most effected by exposure to lead. Responsible people wouldn't encourage a dismissive attitude in this regard, leave that to the parents.
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2010-11-30 20:01
    @Phil: What can you use a shotgun for? Grouse, squirrel, rabbit, turkey, etc. BTW Photos of your car are requested. :-)
    Squirrels and little bunnies?!! :( (Well, okay, I do like hasenpfeffer! :))

    Here's the despised Pinto, having gotten its just desserts. That @#$%^&! rattletrap left me stranded in more inconvenient places than I care to count. For example, it stopped cold in the middle of the Mercer Island bridge (Seattle) one dark, rainy, winter Friday during rush hour. Fortunately, the police officer was kind enough to hold the flashlight in the rain as I readjusted the points in my distributor. ('Always had to carry a dwell meter with me.) When I bought the car, I asked the lady why she was selling it. "Because it reminds me of my ex-husband", she replied. That should've been a warning, I suppose. OMG, how I hated that piece of $#!+ car!

    attachment.php?attachmentid=75864&stc=1&d=1291174964

    Anyway, filling it full of holes was cathartic like you wouldn't believe! Rust in hell, you piece of Smile!

    -Phil
    739 x 492 - 57K
  • bee_manbee_man Posts: 109
    edited 2010-11-30 20:05
    I forgot what I was going to say.
  • bee_manbee_man Posts: 109
    edited 2010-11-30 20:07
    Oh! I remember I have been using lead solder for 35 years and it has not affected me at all.

    Jim
  • davejamesdavejames Posts: 4,047
    edited 2010-11-30 20:59
    ...right there with you B-man.

    DJ
  • davejamesdavejames Posts: 4,047
    edited 2010-11-30 21:01
    ...now Phil - tell us how you REALLY feel about the Pinto!!

    (smiles)
  • edited 2010-11-30 22:38
    bee_man wrote: »
    Oh! I remember I have been using lead solder for 35 years and it has not affected me at all.

    Jim

    A relative of mine worked around asbestos for 47 years and then he retired. He developed incurable cancer from it and died when he was 77. Some things are dangerous but it will take a while to hurt you.
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2010-11-30 23:50
    Hmm. I wonder if the airborne dust from those asbestos brake shoes I sanded the glaze off of 35 years ago is going to do me in. (It was the car before the Pinto, BTW: my beloved '66 Rambler American.) Nah! It'll probably be the benzene that I cleaned my Klepper kayak with before gluing on the keel strips. (God help me: I loved that smell!) Or maybe the chlorinated fluorocarbons that I used to remove the glaze from my typewriter platen. I also seem to recall using carbon tetrachloride once to remove a gravy stain from a silk tie. Or how about those split-shot lead fishing sinkers I opened with my teeth as a kid? Yet -- who knows? -- it might possibly be all that mercury in the albacore tuna that I (and Browser) eat so much of.

    Cripes! Now that I think about it, I'm lucky still to be alive! If this isn't my last [cough] post, it'll be a freaking [wheeze] miracle.

    -Phil [Struggling ... to ... click ... Submit ... Reply]
  • GadgetmanGadgetman Posts: 2,436
    edited 2010-12-01 00:12
    About hunting...

    Here in Norway, lead shotgun pellets are banned. Just that. No mention of waterfowl or other game. It's banned, period.

    Our soldiers are using 'environmentally friendly' 5.56 x 54 mm rounds in their H&K HK416 assault-rifles, but there are reports that some soldiers get 'metal fever' after long sessions on the shooting range.
    (They're using 'good old' lead in the HK417 and else anything that uses 7.62 x 51 NATO, though.)

    I know people who suffers from damages caused by evaporating thinners that they breathed in when working as painters. And don't think that welders are any better off, either.

    How many commercial Helicopter pilots from the 60s and 70s, or even 80s are still flying?
    (Assuming they're not just too old)
    A lot of those ended up being permanetly grounded because of Tinnitus.
    (This is still a problem.)
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2010-12-01 06:01
    I use lead solder because the other stuff doesn't flow as nicely.

    Regarding lead batteries, the solution of battery acid has lead in solution and that is the first entry of lead polution (or other heavy metal polution) from batteries. Just consider that I have seen several Asian battery rebuild/recycle shops just pour all the battery acid down the local sewer. No wonder the fish are getting full of heavy metals.

    We have a new green industry in electric and hybrid cars that seems to have feet of clay - batteries and batttery electrolyte pollution.

    I wouldn't worry too much about lead in hobby soldering. I am 63 years old and so far no bad results. Lead poision in infants and young children is a much larger hazard as they have less body mass to handle some lead in the environment.

    But I wouldn't set up a vegetable garden next to a major road in America as the lead in leaded gas has created fallout to land near these roadways.

    In sum, the lawyers are doing a great job of confounding the issues while exempting uses that we truly are dependent upon. But the real hazards are contining to evolve. Nickel is carcinogenic, and it seems we cannot really build any batteries without a toxic mix in order to get an efficent electrolyte.
  • mctriviamctrivia Posts: 3,772
    edited 2010-12-01 10:46
    I went lead free to sell in euroe. Use up what you have then get some nice silver infused lead free solder.
  • skylightskylight Posts: 1,915
    edited 2010-12-01 11:31
    Maybe foolish, but I like the smell of soldering and as a kid (around 10) I used to melt lead in one of my mums saucepans and pour the molten metal into a sink full of water to make abstract shapes which i then played with. hasn't done me any harm.........what were we talking about? :jumpin:
  • lardomlardom Posts: 1,659
    edited 2010-12-01 11:34
    This subject is a lot wider than lead. I try my best to avoid margerine and other hydrogenated oils since the process involves boiling hydrogen through oil. It becomes a type of polymer. I'll stay with butter. Then there are preservatives; If it kills bacteria then it's not very good for me either. The food chemist has done a lot to mimic the taste and texture of real food to increase shelf life, reduce calories and prices. I don't overdo anything that I know to be unheathy but neither will I trade everything I like for tofu.
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