Taiwan's electronics market
LoopyByteloose
Posts: 12,537
When I started with microcontrollers as a hobby (about 2002-3) all I could find in local electronic shops were 89c50 microcontroller boards. No one here seemed to be aware of the handy Stamp format. And while there were a few 16F84 Pic chips behind the counter, they generally seemed ignored.
Now it is 2010 and the amazing thing is that locally nothing has really changed. And I am not sure exactly why. I can't even get the new PICs even though there is a Microchip headquarters in town.
Two cultural traits come to mind. One is extreme frugality, not wasting money or resource for mere pleasure. The other is that there is a tendency to toughen up competitively by doing things the hardest way possible.
The first point is quite understandable as poverty has only recently departed Taiwan and fears remain. People don't think like the Japanese that a high tec hobby is an enhancement to their career and quality of life. Nonetheless, it always seems a bit too extreme when there are advantages to exposing youth to new technology so that they appreciate their math and science studies in a practical way.
The second is a bit more complex. For instance, there seems to be no pocket billiards tables and certainly no bar tables in the entire country. They play 9 ball, 8 ball, and snooker all on the much larger snooker table with the sharp corners that disallow forgiving bad shots.
I suppose the final problem is that Taiwan doesn't want to import anything that is unnecessary. They happily make the chips and assemble the world's computers, but for local consumption even computers remain a bit behind the leading edge. In fact, visiting computer stores here seems to offer the feeling that they are stocked with whatever didn't good to Europe or the USA.
I guess what I am saying is that I really envy all of you in the USA with EBay, Parallax, Digikey, and more being within easy reach.
Now it is 2010 and the amazing thing is that locally nothing has really changed. And I am not sure exactly why. I can't even get the new PICs even though there is a Microchip headquarters in town.
Two cultural traits come to mind. One is extreme frugality, not wasting money or resource for mere pleasure. The other is that there is a tendency to toughen up competitively by doing things the hardest way possible.
The first point is quite understandable as poverty has only recently departed Taiwan and fears remain. People don't think like the Japanese that a high tec hobby is an enhancement to their career and quality of life. Nonetheless, it always seems a bit too extreme when there are advantages to exposing youth to new technology so that they appreciate their math and science studies in a practical way.
The second is a bit more complex. For instance, there seems to be no pocket billiards tables and certainly no bar tables in the entire country. They play 9 ball, 8 ball, and snooker all on the much larger snooker table with the sharp corners that disallow forgiving bad shots.
I suppose the final problem is that Taiwan doesn't want to import anything that is unnecessary. They happily make the chips and assemble the world's computers, but for local consumption even computers remain a bit behind the leading edge. In fact, visiting computer stores here seems to offer the feeling that they are stocked with whatever didn't good to Europe or the USA.
I guess what I am saying is that I really envy all of you in the USA with EBay, Parallax, Digikey, and more being within easy reach.
Comments
Is Karaoke is no longer a favorite past time even for business cultivation?
Just curious.
Things may have changed since I was last there. In those days the street-dogs knew how to read the traffic lights better than me, the mopeds always crowded up the intersections for red lights, Mercedes was the only car to drive, and Taipei streets were deserted on national holidays
I haven't been to Taiwan but it sounds like what you are describing to me is that they are sellers and not consumers; sort of like "Made in the USA" labels and unions. It all sounds too familiar:
"When asked of Malinda owned an iPod, she responded, 'No, I have a Zune,' referring to Microsoft's much less successful music player."
"Pressed on whether her children clamour for she stated, 'I have gotten that argument: 'You may have a Zune'."
http://news.oneindia.in/2010/10/26/tech-bill-gates-ban-ipad-at-home.html
I guess the stores stock what is selling. And that possibly depends on what is being published in the local electronics magazines, and our local magazine (Silicon Chip) hasn't published much for the propeller or for any parallax products.
Maybe everything has gone online - sales, publication, information, discussion?
You can't get any SMD parts from any store nationwide.
Not even a resistor or capacitor.
Everybody is still stuck with thru hole.
I think they will only start selling smd components when manufacturers stop manufacturing thru hole parts.
RS forces you to buy 5000 pcs per order if you need any smd parts.
Farnell (now element14 ) is the only one that sells smd parts in small quantities, but the prices they quote is a bad joke.
I looked up the periodic table. Now I get it!
Pity the prices are still so high though. But they do have a huge range and if you want a pressure switch that switches at x PSI they will deliver it tomorrow.
The mainland has much bigger selections but when I was in Shanghai at the EXPO, a student handed me a flier in English (made apparently from an online translator or translated by schoolchildren) that told me if I have air conditioning, sell it or don't use it. If I make bean curd, save the water for cooking or drinking. Don't use lights or modern electricity. Don't use water or shower. Actually to me, the long list was rather shocking and seemed archaic, and a bit strange to teach anti-technology to school children. I know it was a ploy to promote green earth, and save energy, but seemed ridiculous especially since it was 106 deg. and I needed air conditioning at the time.
But secondly, it is a bit of disappointment that I've never been able to create a local club for robotics. Even the Kaohsiung Linux User's Group is mere fiction - while listed, it hasn't really met for years.
I suppose that this makes the superb Parallax Forum all that more important to those of us that aren't in an EE curriculum at some overseas university. I have given away a half dozen or so Propellers in efforts to try to inspire people here and have yet to see anything come of all of it.
These stuff will be too complex for normal humans to actually understand how they work.
Electronics parts shops will be obsoleted.
well in 30 years maybe there won't be any "normal" humans left? haha
wishful thinking I know...
Well. Pachinko is rather mindless Japanese soft gambling, whereas a serious game of 9-ball on a snooker table is a skill that takes years to develop. There is really big money made by the skilled hustler.
Taiwanese dogs are still some of the most intelligent I've ever seen - I even have one for a roommate. Much of what you stay still holds true though Taiwan is slowly subject to gentrification and modernizing. Less mopeds, certainly far less trash and litter. Karaoke a bit less prevalent, but a handy for hanging out all night with your soul mates.
Frankly I prefer the crush of crowded night markets and people carrying the whole family on one motor scooter. I'd rather feel like Marco Polo than a visitor to L.A. on steroids.
The only thing I seem to truly miss is USA's sophisticated technology, like Mouser, Digikey, and the often free UPS. The food here is wonderful. It get 10 huge pot stickers for $1.60 and the won-ton soup is heavenly.
I am afraid it has a lot to do with customers. It is surprising that with America's consumption and invention of all things electronic, that as a hobby it has always been a small niche that seems to just get smaller.
It is as big a cultural problem as a supply problem. If more parents got their kids micro-controller kits for Christmas instead of XBOX games......the supply chain would change.
Very true! As a younger person I was often shocked by the remoteness and isolation. Where I grew up, when the sun went down you were on your own. Hopefully you had a home and a family; otherwise you were in for a long night. To this day, I own a mountain cabin that is many miles from the nearest power line or paved road. In the winter, in the snow, in the dark, it can seem like you are the only human on the planet. Definitely an acquired taste. Most people in such a situation find solace either in a bottle or in religion.
The stuff in Farnell and RS are so expensive, and only large quantities must be purchased. I only ended up buying the PIC microcontrollers there and some other components.
Worse still, the stores in my city don't stock on SMD components, or even higher-end microcontrollers. Most of them are still with the casual 74 and CD series chips, plus some old 68HC11s and lot more of the classic PIC16F84 and some other variants of them. I go there just to restock on the resistors, capacitors and the transistors, and nothing more there.
Many of my students, when working with microcontrollers, are not due to their own interests. Almost all of them works with these because they have to do their final year project in their own college/universities. I rarely see students doing microcontrollers because of personal hobby. Most of the time, it's PIC16F84, or the PIC16F678, and the similar ones.
In the end, these students still doesn't get to enjoy the other microcontrollers such as Atmel, Parallax and the ARM. I explained to them the wonders of the 8-core Propeller and the simplicity of the Atmega, but they won't have a slight interest on these stuff at all.
The mentality is simple: "Don't know, don't care, I pass the exam with an A, it's enough".
I could guess the situation in America is totally different.
I end up having to buy in components, I find Rockby www.rockby.com.au to have some SMD stuff that I want, but the rest of the time I have to buy from Parallax, Sparkfun, DigiKey directly. Due to the costs of shipping I normally buy more than I need rather than having to pay for yet another expensive shipping order. Fortunately Parallax has listened to my plea for cheaper shipping (Thankyou Ken & friends - I am forever in your debt ).
Though, and I've touched on this before in the Propeller forum. If we do want our local stores to stock the stuff that we want, then rather than wait in hope for them to do it, we have to do something about. That means, either bugging your local electronics stores (may work, but doubtful), or driving advocacy. That is, writing magazine articles with Parallax product, publishing the BOM, artwork and code. Maybe work with Gadget Gangster to build kits in the short term. But in the longer term, the more published "solutions" out there, then the wider the demand, and then your local electronic store may start to stock the interesting things that we like as there will be a market.
I've suggested in the past that Parallax should reward advocacy. It's probably time to bug them again at setting up an advocacy contest. Where folks have to put together publishable quality magazine articles involving Parallax product. And then have the Parallax marketting folks going and walking the streets with the Electronics magazine publishers (known, and user submitted (as their local)) to get the articles published.
I'll go submit it in the Suggestions forum. Feel free to reply there if you feel it has merit.
One year I got a Christmas package from Parallax and I am still not quite sure why. I guess I did something to be appreciated.