Food Stamps n stuff
Wildatheart
Posts: 195
There is a current thread in the Sandbox that’s kicking up a sand storm. It pertains to low participation in the Completed Projects Forum. Although it is beyond the scope of these remarks to offer suggestions regarding that thread, the thread gives me the idea to propose the formation of a new forum that functions like a first cousin to the Completed Projects Forum.
The forum could be called “Bump's Big Basket”. Apparently, Bump has a basket full of stuff that he needs to give away. His contest entry rules are quite simple… Tell me you want it. Nonsense!
“Bump's Big Basket” contest should be associated with the concept of being rewarded for having done something that has some kind of value beyond that of posting a note that says, ‘Hey, man that’s cool… I gotta have that. Pick me.’
I’d suggest that the contest entry eligibility requirements be changed to include things like: The member having posted a forum question, or a forum response within the contest period, or a simple sketch showing, ‘This is how to energize a relay’, or ‘This is a photo of my unfinished blah, blah, blah’. The entrant needs to do something - anything that has some degree of value for another forum member. Then, as the winner is randomly picked, a board determines value/no value for the entrants post. Almost anything beyond, ‘I’ve always wanted one of those.’ has value. Duplicate entries could be allowed, however each member’s entry would have to be unique and different for each contest. It might also be good to restrict forum moderators in some way, as their numerous regular posts would give them greater advantage.
We’re paying for the food stamps for 43 million people today. How would our world be changed if their freebie was tied to some level of productive effort? In exchange for their food stamps, could they pick up trash along a city sidewalk? Empty a city trash can? Paint a city fence? Wash a city bus or a police car? Heck, could some of them even mow their own lawn?
I have a feeling that an ongoing “Bump's Big Basket” contest (involving participant effort) would stimulate ideas, could restart stalled projects, and we’d all be happy to share stuff lying around on another’s desk or bench. After all, that’s why we’re here, and Bump has a built in way to nudge it up a notch. Might work.
The forum could be called “Bump's Big Basket”. Apparently, Bump has a basket full of stuff that he needs to give away. His contest entry rules are quite simple… Tell me you want it. Nonsense!
“Bump's Big Basket” contest should be associated with the concept of being rewarded for having done something that has some kind of value beyond that of posting a note that says, ‘Hey, man that’s cool… I gotta have that. Pick me.’
I’d suggest that the contest entry eligibility requirements be changed to include things like: The member having posted a forum question, or a forum response within the contest period, or a simple sketch showing, ‘This is how to energize a relay’, or ‘This is a photo of my unfinished blah, blah, blah’. The entrant needs to do something - anything that has some degree of value for another forum member. Then, as the winner is randomly picked, a board determines value/no value for the entrants post. Almost anything beyond, ‘I’ve always wanted one of those.’ has value. Duplicate entries could be allowed, however each member’s entry would have to be unique and different for each contest. It might also be good to restrict forum moderators in some way, as their numerous regular posts would give them greater advantage.
We’re paying for the food stamps for 43 million people today. How would our world be changed if their freebie was tied to some level of productive effort? In exchange for their food stamps, could they pick up trash along a city sidewalk? Empty a city trash can? Paint a city fence? Wash a city bus or a police car? Heck, could some of them even mow their own lawn?
I have a feeling that an ongoing “Bump's Big Basket” contest (involving participant effort) would stimulate ideas, could restart stalled projects, and we’d all be happy to share stuff lying around on another’s desk or bench. After all, that’s why we’re here, and Bump has a built in way to nudge it up a notch. Might work.
Comments
I guess the trick is to figure out "why" participation is low..
Is is folks being just plain lazy who want all of the work done for them? Maybe, but then maybe not. I know in my case, with this recession, I've been working twice as hard to make everything happen here that needs to be done to make the ends meet. Even as far as opening a new division of my business to improve each month's bottom line so that I can survive. While the rewards are worth it, it has taken a bite out of my Propeller project time. For instance, I'm getting ready to head over to handle 5+ hours of work today on a day when I might have spent it in my prop-shop. I know of a couple other forum regulars who are desperately looking for work. Priorities of taking care of "body and soul" have to come first.
That being said.. There is much to be said about rewarding effort and work! Let's make those who cross the finish line on projects and software honored as much as we all can. Bump's Dump (a "verb" not a noun, heh) could be used or partially used in this manner. It all depends on the intent of why Bump exists in the first place.
OBC
-Phil
This is an electronics forum, not a forum on philosophy! Why Bump exists is entirely up to him to determine, and we really shouldn't force, or even suggests why, or anyone else, exists.
How would any of us like someone else to evaluate the purpose of our existence?
And for the record, the main purpose of my existence is to annoy my wife. After that, spreading the joy or sarcasm is a close second!
- In case anybody is getting the wrong idea, this was all in jest. I just saw the "why Bump exists in the first place", and couldn't help myself!
If anybody gets at least a grin out of this, then I've had a good day.
John R.
Secondly, I thought it was clear in my post that the freebie drawings would remain random and that the winners submission would not judged on merit. But technically, I guess merit is a subjective term. Its hard to believe that anyone would construe the words, Count me in as having merit, but i suppose an argumentative person could find reason to complain. I did include some very basic examples of what might be considered meritorious.
An individual forum contributor running such a contest can be as arbitrary as he likes Absolutely! But Bump leads us to believe that hes more than an individual forum contributor (Bump(Parallax Inc)), and further goes on to talk about the Sales team supplying him with the goodies. But then, Parallax can be as arbitrary as they like too.
The entire point of my suggestion was not to lecture on how to run a lottery, nor was it offered to complicate a giveaway contest, but rather to suggest a fun and educational avenue for members to display effort that would never qualify for submission to other more involved write-ups the Completed Projects forum included. The thinking is that a prize would incentivize participation in a forum where all can contribute in an informal way without being judged. A good thing for all, Parallax included.
Its this simple Heres my submission for entry into the make believe contest for the Ping prize. The photo shows a very dusty OEM board with an XBee, IO pins, on/off switch, and a reset button. Ill be blowing the dust off it soon to revive a project now that winter is about to set in again. Photo attached.
I often think that if those of us with a bit more experience offered a bit more guidance along with our generous counsel to answer questions, the beginners would be more inspired to produce projects that would ultimately turn up in the Completed Projects forum.
-Phil
But at the end of the day, youre likely right. I continually have to remind myself that a lot of life changed when I wasnt looking. So, back to where all this started
Today. 43 million U.S. people receiving Food Stamps and a contest on a U.S. computer forum where the entrant fee consists of submitting as little as the word Gimme.
Wow! No wonder so many people are receiving food stamps.
Two of the most taboo subjects in these forums are politics and religion. Please don't feed that aspect of the topic by responding in kind.
Thanks,
-Phil
Although Ive never met Phil, it is true that we live relatively close. And just down the street from us, to the south (a hundred miles or so), Bill Gates built the most successful company in the world. I can remember driving past his house and seeing his old 65 Mustang parked in his driveway. From what Ive read about Mr. Gates, hes been extremely demanding of his employees in terms of ingenuity. Regardless of your likes or dislikes for Microsoft, huge success for that company can be attributed to those demands.
Were (America is) at a crossroads. Parallax has opened door for beginners and professionals alike to learn and share the fundamentals of microprocessors and to help perpetuate American dominance in the field of computers, robotics, and digital signal processing. A post to these forums, insignificant as it may seem, may just be the incentive for a beginner to turn into another Bill Gates or another Gordon Moore.
Why is it so hard to admit that we can do so much more than to accept the words, Hey, man I want one of them giveaways.? If the rules have to be so complex and if the feelings of those who didnt win are so fragile that we cant determine if something has value, then God help us we all deserve to be on Food Stamps.
Jim, I don't care. If you're happy to write "Gimme one of them." in Bump's giveaways, go for it. My opinion is that it sells Parallax and it's forum members (and America) short. I was hoping that we could do better.
My concern lies in where the conversation stopped being about your point, free vs. earned goods or Bumps Giveaway and became a different conversation about government and politics. I was hoping to steer the conversation back to the original topic without going into forum rules and all the attention that brings. Sometimes it doesn't go well.
By making the contest a random giveaway of items that have already been out-of-stock so long they're essentially paperweights in the office, or items that were sitting in the back of a tech support team member's cabinet, we've fostered another crowd of people. I see no harm in a corporation freely giving away items to people without any basis other than that of a hand-out; the governmental aspects of this style of hand-out shouldn't be discussed on the forums, more or less out of respect and also because we are an electronics company.
That being said, in the past we've held other contests that had qualifying elements. The Parallax Prize Fairy came out of her well and bestowed gifts upon the forums three years ago. We recently gave away product to the 20,000th forum member; in less recent history similar giveaways have been made. We have a very friendly policy for gifting items to engineers in need, schools, and other people/places/etc that request our assistance.
More related to the Completed Projects:
http://www.parallax.com/ApplicationsContests/tabid/271/Default.aspx
$100 of free Parallax Hardware, all you have to do is make a compelling project and submit it. Our entries have been low, completed projects has been slow; however neither are dead. Supplementing the completed forums with my giveaways would just detract from the projects and give a new lease to the random giveaways of Parallax; I don't think people looking for a cool project would be very satisfied with that.
Perhaps it's the case that giving away product randomly helps others that are possibly in financial crisis, or other 'dire dealings', create projects; I have received more than 10 emails as follow-ups to our recent giveaways containing pictures of what great little functions our gifts have helped facilitate. I love to see the ingenuity of people.
As to the nature of my existence, please see the bottom of linked:
http://www.parallax.com/February2010Parallaxian/tabid/837/Default.aspx
I'm alive, I swear. I used to have a Bump's Dump, but it was called "Bump's Bargain Basement" and it operated like eBay before we moved old product there. I would love to have a basket, but I'm not certain if spending our forum resources on such an endeavor is most apt.
I mean it'd be cool to have my own little cubby again, but I'd look quite the fool when the prize river dried up and I sat there idle for 8 months not delivering.
I did not like the "tell us why you deserve it" format, so I am glad to see it gone.
Rich H
Simply look at the number of people entering, then you will see what products people would like to have more than others.
We still have the old ken heads... look at young Ken sketch, and your head in a dinosaur outfit, your eye, a scary puppet headed Ken, and Russian Constructivist Ken head.
Send by a request, we'll hook you up again.
Living in Washington, Im reminded of the Washington state lottery. Although Ive never purchased a ticket, the entry fee is a buck or two maybe three or five. Dknow. But whatever the fee, I often see the lotto tickets being unrolled and sold by the handful at the corner unbranded gas station/convenience store. The owner, a friend of mine, tells me that he makes more off the lotto tickets than he does from selling gasoline. Although a nice prize is occasionally awarded, we all know that the real beneficiary is the State of Washington.
I thought that an entry fee to Bumps RANDOMLY selected giveaways consisting of the submission of something (anything) productive (beyond a Gimme) would serve to benefit the community, just as the lotto serves to benefit the State.
Bump, the benevolence of Parallax toward those in need is unquestioned, and Parallax should be commended, but remember your random choice of a winner is not based on need. Then, as for those thank yous that you receive from prize winners would it be asking too much form you to do a write up and present their work, as you describe it, in the Completed Project forum? It seems that your inside involvement with the giveaways places you in a perfect position that could more than double the Completed Projects forum entries, thus solving the original problem defined in the first post to this thread. Im sure those projects would be of interest to many of us.
Following is some detail and a photo of another of my projects. Based on the nature of the Basic Stamp forum and the Sandbox forum it seems arrogant and inappropriate to post the following there. Likewise, due to the requirements of the Completed Projects forum or the $100 contest, the following couldnt be presented there either.
I dont know if Avatar flew, but if he didnt heres the photo of the guts of a jet pack that would assist the process. This could be my submission to Bumps next paperweight giveaway and possibly give Ken a new way to travel without his sidekick, Avatar.
I currently use the backpack to control a rather substantial submersible. As you can see, the Parallax Stamp PLC receives control inputs from the handheld pendant. The pendant also monitors vacuum pressure. The PLC then outputs appropriate signals to the solid state relays that subsequently control the coils of simple and cheap ole sprinkler valves. What more can I say? The 12 volt sealed lead acid battery and the inverter provide the power for this thing to fly.
Again this doesnt fit the completed projects or the $100 contest, but perhaps someone along the line will benefit from seeing it. And again a small and fun price to pay had this have been a real contest entry fee.
Again , trying to be carefull how I will bring this, but, in another post, I've asked if the NOOB could get a thread on "here's what Ive done so far". Kinda of boasting the accomplishment from a noob perspective. (was ignored on that request).
My project did not meet the criteria of a completed project(was deleted). Though some area of the project, I don't want to divulge, it involves other type of electronic not related to Parallax and the programming in VB was very intense.
The rest was out of the Parallax book to connect devices like GPS, 1-wire temp sensor, tilt sensor etc. So why should I display the basic of Parallax? Even the BS2 programming was text book also. And the rest was VB2008 ! Commnucation with BS2 with great graphic stuff.
I've sweat bullets to get my VB to get info from BS2 and use graphics to display grahics like a compass, tilt angle like an plane horizon level etc...
I'm sure that would have help someone somewhere ! But no place to put it!
Here is a Picture of Vers. 1 of it (since then some graphics was modified)
Right now , the project is stalled (personal reasons) and soon to resume...
I like your word boasting as youve used it in this thread. It does seem boastful to post our half finished projects or ideas in the other forums such as you and I did to prove a point. W9GFO (Rich) recently began a thread asking about the read distance of the RFID reader. His entry to that thread this morning (and it was only chance that I saw it) is another over-the-top presentation of a half finished project soon to be buried after having been seen by few. We dont often see this kind of ending to a thread.
I shouldnt, couldnt, wouldnt judge the merit of Yoshs project, Richs project, Jeffs code, or my jet pack in a Bump's giveaway contest, but wouldnt these submissions make great entry fees for a chance at the prize? It removes the boasting and the judging, and the submissions might point some of us in new directions; and if we have to submit something as an entry fee anyway, it can easily amount to more than a Gimme.
A spinoff Although the proposed entry fee might be as little as posing or answering a forum question, after the random drawing Bump could sort the entries from Bumps Big Basket giveaway and place the half finished entries in yet another forum called, Bump It Up! Imagine a catalog of ideas.
Now I'll post what I understand from what's being said, and feel free to interject if I'm digressing from the intentions or clarify as necessary.
One of the issues lie with the rigid format and entry qualifications for the Customer Applications page and Completed Projects forum channel, because it doesn't really allow for in-progess projects to be displayed. If an unfinished project is posted it gets pushed down into some other forum which is deemed more appropriate. As such it then becomes difficult to find the projects created by others because they get lost under the tidal wave of posts.
As such the 'fix' for that would be to change the rules/sticky information to include works in-progress. The $100 hardware reward would still be available to those who sought such a prize, but the nature of the forum channel wouldn't force half-finished projects to find shelter elsewhere.
We like this idea, because then it allows everyone a single place to convene to discuss projects in motion or finished goods. The focus remaining on the projects rather whatever cpu/hardware/etc it was using. We'll get working on the changes to this end, because that would be very beneficial to the community.
And then, if I'm still interpreting this correctly; an incentive giveaway for participation on that forum? This is the 'buy-in' you were talking about earlier that I misinterpreted. Now it seems more like a request for a separate motivation for displaying works and being active on that forum channel, something unrelated to the random giveaway. That's also a good suggestion and we're working on a few updates that will become available in time, which should facilitate that request as well. Something of a discount code for active participation.
I think I've got it right now, there was some confusion earlier with all of the posts.
So in short: better representation for all projects completed or otherwise, and a potential incentive for participation.
I think you are on the right track.
However, I would retain the "completed" portion of the requirements, I think that is important. Works in progress and failed projects I feel belong elsewhere.
I don't mean to imply that a work in progress equals a failed project. It's just that I am sure there are many interesting abandoned projects out there too.
Rich H
If not completed (with minor final touch) at least , that it works and anyone can replicate the project?
What if ,lack of funding, it's a bit delayed.
But I do understand , that a completed project has more merit. And the risk with not completed one, may be never completed...
There must be a happy middle ground?
IF not, for the contest, a completed functional project... and maybe a sub area that is for almost fully functional !
And an explanation of which part is not completed and maybe why?
just a thought!
Cheers
I raised the issue of Food Stamps because theres a lot of work that can be done in exchange for those 43 million handouts. I think the psychologists would confirm that we tend to feel a bit more pride about ourselves when we work for something that added to the additional pride we feel when we see others benefiting from the work weve done makes for a happier people all around. Some would disagree - but those might be the ones whod graffiti the bus instead of washing it as their contribution.
@Bump And then, if I'm still interpreting this correctly; an incentive giveaway for participation on that forum? This is the 'buy-in' you were talking about earlier that I misinterpreted. Now it seems more like a request for a separate motivation for displaying works and being active on that forum channel, something unrelated to the random giveaway.
??? It is suggested that the buy-in be tied to the giveaway as incentive for participation. This also takes the boastfulness out of a member having to post to a new Half Finished Projects forum, although this wouldnt preclude a member from posting directly to the Half Finished Projects. The buy-in has great latitude for its submissions. I suppose if someone wants to buy-in with the word, Gimme it could be allowed, but as the reputation for the giveaway grew, the contestant would choose to up the anti by buying-in with something of interest to the community.
Then after the random draw for the prize, a secondary "reward" would be that YOU do a quick copy and paste (into the new Half Finished fourm) of ALL entries (AS SUBMITTED for the buy-in) that seem to have interest for the community.
With the belief that many of us are looking for direction and things of interest, Id be willing to bet that a Half Finished (Bump Up) forum would be very popular.
If you think your marketing department is happy with the giveaway as it stands, consider the potential that might come about from members actually seeing some working or partially working stuff. I'd like to see the various ways Parallax encoders are being used. It might give me an idea to order one.