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Looking for feedback on Propeller 'Getting Started' Tutorials — Parallax Forums

Looking for feedback on Propeller 'Getting Started' Tutorials

Nick McClickNick McClick Posts: 1,003
edited 2010-11-02 15:40 in Propeller 1
I've been working on a few 'Getting Started' tutorials for the Propeller (So far I've done 2, Blinky Light, and Video output) and I'm looking for some feedback;
  1. What are some good additional tutorial topics? I was thinking of 'how to use an object'. I've also written one on multi-tasking (here), but I'm not sure it belongs as a 'getting started' topic. I also want to keep them more 'howto' than theory.
  2. Any technical errors in the existing tutorials?
  3. Also, what's the best order of topics?
  4. Finally, I often see little pop-quizzes in tutorials like these - is that useful / interesting?

What would have helped you the most when you started learning how to use the Prop?

Edit
Here are the current list of video tutorials;

Comments

  • jmspaggijmspaggi Posts: 629
    edited 2010-10-07 11:39
    Good initiative!

    I will maybe recommand to add something like "Write to the console". The Video Ouput is nice, but you don't always have a TV to use with your propeller.

    JM
  • Nick McClickNick McClick Posts: 1,003
    edited 2010-10-07 11:56
    Maybe something fun to be done through the Serial Terminal like 'measure the temperature', or 'change the speed of your blinky light'...
  • jmspaggijmspaggi Posts: 629
    edited 2010-10-07 12:02
    I think it need to stay small and easy.

    Change the speed of the blinky light should be ok. Like you can press + or -, and you will receive a ACK. That way you can see how to use Serial objects.

    The temperature might be a bit to much since you need to add some DS1520 or others.

    My 2¢ ;)

    JM
  • bill190bill190 Posts: 769
    edited 2010-10-07 13:12
    Very good! Short and sweet.

    And you even explained spacing over for repeat.

    I would suggest maybe one on using the propeller tool with screen shots. How to save your program so you can easily find it to show your friends.

    Maybe even how to copy / paste the program into the propeller tool with screen shots. Maybe a link to a separate page?

    Test the instructions on non-technical types and see if they can do it, see what they have problems with. Basic stuff we would assume everybody knows...
  • ericballericball Posts: 774
    edited 2010-10-07 13:28
    I'd probably title "Video Output" as "Text Output via a TV". Then you can create a series of articles progressing from serial I/O through TV & VGA output, keyboard and other input, etc. I'd also have a central page which would cover the basics of SPIN (i.e. CON, PUB, VAR etc).
  • yarisboyyarisboy Posts: 245
    edited 2010-10-07 13:37
    I'm in the process now of paying my dues for serial communication. Some examples of what is in a good driver might be of interest. So far my baud rates don't come close to the spec sheets but then I haven't stepped up to PASM (yet) either.
  • Nick McClickNick McClick Posts: 1,003
    edited 2010-10-07 13:47
    @Eric - My thinking is that some folks would prefer something more action oriented / fun. e.g., 'playing a song with a PC keyboard' instead of just 'Using a keyboard'. Does that make sense?
  • HumanoidoHumanoido Posts: 5,770
    edited 2010-10-07 22:34
    You could communicate with 2 props with serial code and give the most simple examples.

    What we need is a complete definitive book on how to program in spin language starting from step one. Define all your terms. Yes, obviously that would include objects, etc. Then you would need the shortest most simple working program code examples to show each point introduced. A book of projects is nice but that's something different, let's call that "A book of Projects."

    What would help the most? I just started learning spin about 2 months ago. What I can use is one good source to learn programming from step one that can be the definitive spin source for learning to program. It would include simple working code examples of each statement. For example, let's illustrate the most simple working program with the serial statement and syntax.

    Problem is, there are many books and tutorials and they either run out of steam, have failure to provide complete information, or provide no examples or examples that are too difficult for a beginner to understand or even run. We need to know and see example syntax in short working programs.
  • ericballericball Posts: 774
    edited 2010-10-08 08:41
    @Eric - My thinking is that some folks would prefer something more action oriented / fun. e.g., 'playing a song with a PC keyboard' instead of just 'Using a keyboard'. Does that make sense?

    Fun is good. (Actually, I wonder whether the "using LEDs for input" would be a good example.)

    But, I have to wonder if some of what you are trying to do (i.e. teach the basics of SPIN) has been done before. IMHO your target should be providing tutorials on stuff which can be done with the modules you sell (especially combining different modules).
  • Nick McClickNick McClick Posts: 1,003
    edited 2010-10-15 09:58
    I think of spin tutorials as being for the Propeller Platform. I've done several demonstration projects for the modules I sell (Talking Clock, Web server, and a few more), not exactly tutorials, but I can always do more.

    There aren't actually a lot of Spin tutorials outside of the PE kit and Manual. They're good, but I wanted something more accessible and low level. Less threatening than a 400 page manual.

    I've put up a new one - this is a video tutorial on the blinky lights - here
  • bill190bill190 Posts: 769
    edited 2010-10-16 06:19
    I've put up a new one - this is a video tutorial on the blinky lights - here

    That is excellent! A+ for that one.

    One thing I have learned is that different people learn differently. I and many people here might learn best by reading 300 page data sheets, but other people might learn best by watching a video.

    So I feel it is important to have learning material available in different formats.

    Anyway that video is getting REAL close to having just about anyone be able to watch it, then be able to make blinky lights on the Propeller!

    The only thing to add would be on the page which links to that video, say how to download the Propeller IDE, then what to click on to get the IDE screen up on your computer. And maybe a copy of the code you entered on the video. Then they could copy/paste or flip between that screen to refresh their memory of the code, then back to the Propeller IDE to type it in.

    Advanced might be another lesson on what happens if you don't tab over with repeat - show the difference.

    P.S. This stuff is actually quite difficult. Being able to communicate to someone else in simple terms how to do something. What is that about the "listener" understanding what is being said? Frequently it is misunderstanding rather than understanding!
  • sylvie369sylvie369 Posts: 1,622
    edited 2010-10-16 06:37
    In the original Propeller Manual (V. 1.01), there was an introduction to getting an LED to blink that then moved on to getting one LED to bilnk 10 times at one rate, and then another to blink 20 times at a different rate.

    Then it moved on to

    "Suppose, however, that we want to do things in parallel: simultaneously toggling pins 16 and 17, each at different rates and for different finite periods. Tasks like this can certainly be done with serial processing and clever programming but it is easier with parallel processing by having the Propeller activate two cogs"
    (Propeller Manual 1.01, p. 106)

    I think you should seriously consider a progression like this for your introduction to parallel processing: first have the reader blink an LED and do something else simple and apparent (blink another LED, preferably, or maybe make a buzzer play a sequence of tones). Then show the reader how to do both things at once using COGNEW.

    When I ran that program and had different LEDs blinking at different rates at the same time, it was as though the gates of heaven had opened and a choir of angels was singing. :idea:
  • edited 2010-10-16 08:33
    Good initiative. Now you have to test it with someone who doesn't speak Propeller.
  • Nick McClickNick McClick Posts: 1,003
    edited 2010-10-16 12:56
    @Bill - exactly. I don't profess this as being the best tutorial, it's just another way of explaining it. Some folks prefer the manual, some might prefer a video.

    I do need to test it on a new user, though... that's a good idea.
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2010-10-20 05:40
    Recently I've returned to studying the Propeller, Spin, the Hydra, and video display. When I first got my Propeller I was quite excited, but information for learning Spin and PASM was sparse. So I gave up and have waited for all those 'in the know' to teach me.

    As I can see there are two tendencies on the web about publication and neither are particularly sensible.

    1. Write a tutorial.
    Is a tutorial the only kind of educational material we need? I suspect not.
    2. Reapply what everyone else has written.
    Using the internet as a research tool and particularly as an authority is quite deceptive. A lot of information gets recycled again and again, often in a worse form. There is always room for people to think deeply and before they write, revise what they have written a lot, and apply thoughtful clarity to their presentation. Parallax really needs to keep the educational scheme for the Propeller on track and not rely on independent authors.

    So what I am trying to say?

    When I survey the study materials for the Propeller, I try to identify the key building blocks that I must use to learn as much as possible with as little effort.

    In this case, "The Propeller Manual" is a 'must have' document, but it isn't the easiest introduction for the novice - after all it is a complete reference. On the other hand, while "Getting Started" Tutorials are very emotionally rewarding in that one gets something working and feels empowered, it is hard to help the beginner notice all the diverse details that eventually up-grade one's skills to a competent level.

    Most recently, what I have have found is the the "Hydra Manual" in "Part Two", and especially Chapters 14 and 15, offers the kind of over-view and noticing that move one from a disoriented, but enthusiastic beginner to a mainstream user.

    And yet I have two problems with the 'Hydra Manual'.

    First and foremost is that not everyone can afford to buy it. And of course, some don't want to learn video. It would be nice if Andre LaMothe would let these to key chapters be posted freely in the downloads. I think everyone would benefit - many would want more and buy Andre's whole book once they saw what they learned and many more users would have an easier time going from beginner to intermediate level as the overview of what you need to know is all there is a rather short presentation.

    The second problem is more awkward. I feel the 'Hydra Manual' needs to be thoroughly re-edited and re-released in a 2nd edition. I've just had to weigh thorough too many typos, segments of confusing references, and so on. Part Two - Chapters 14 and 15 are likely some of the best writing in the whole text as they are very central to the whole text's success. But other Chapters seem to fade in and out as far as being good. If Parallax wants to reach people globally, the quality of their texts must be extremely good and not let people loose confidence in their ability to learn though studying a rather limited selection of study materials.

    I do have another text, written by Harprit Singh Sandhu. But frankly, it seems to have similar quality control problems as the 'Hydra Manual', but without the vast insight that Andre LaMothe brings to using the Propeller.

    I guess I am basically lazy. I want excellent texts with the shortest, most concise, explanation that will help me learn. (It doesn't matter if I am the student or the teacher - I have to waste time sorting out author's mistakes.) I've always felt that it is best to start a new topic with 150 pages of overview - Chapters 14 and 15 would be about the right size. After that, one can progressively read longer books. And I also admit that I am a bit resentful that today's publishing has seemed to done away with having editors carefully watching over the publication of new materials. More and more the quality control is left to just the original author and they are exhausted by the time they finish a text. And often they feel underpaid and under-supported when it comes to cleaning up the final product. They just don't see their owns errors, especially when English is their 2nd language.

    In sum, the 'Getting Started' Tutorials are fine and I am sure you can add more; but an overall approach to study would help Parallax and all those interested in the Propeller. Meanwhile, I am heavily into reading the 'Hydra Manual' from cover-to-cover as it is the best we have got if you want to become an expert at programing the Propeller.

    So I guess I am saying that it is time to critically revise much of what is already published rather than develop more and more new resources.
  • Nick McClickNick McClick Posts: 1,003
    edited 2010-10-20 10:08
    Put up another video tutorial - this time on multitasking (here)

    @Loopy - I agree with many points. Current information on learning Spin is sparse. PASM has 2 good guides, but could use more. In general, there isn't enough intermediate - advanced learning material out there.

    But imho having multiple regurgitations of the same info is not a bad thing. Some people learn by watching, some by reading, some by doing. If there were 50 books on the Propeller and 10 video series', more people would get started with the Propeller.
  • Nick McClickNick McClick Posts: 1,003
    edited 2010-10-26 11:13
    New video - this one on objects. Here's the link.

    When I have a chance, I'll roll these into the tutorials page on Gadget Gangster and I'll also update the top post in this thread.
  • sam_sam_samsam_sam_sam Posts: 2,286
    edited 2010-10-26 11:37
    1. Write a tutorial.
    Is a tutorial the only kind of educational material we need? I suspect not.
    2. Reapply what everyone else has written.

    There is always room for people to think deeply and before they write, revise what they have written a lot, and apply thoughtful clarity to their presentation. So what I am trying to say?

    When I survey the study materials for the Propeller, I try to identify the key building blocks that I must use to learn as much as possible with as little effort. Me too

    In this case, "The Propeller Manual" is a 'must have' document, but it isn't the easiest introduction for the novice - after all it is a complete reference.

    On the other hand, while "Getting Started" Tutorials are very emotionally rewarding in that one gets something working and feels empowered, it is hard to help the beginner notice all the diverse details that eventually up-grade one's skills to a competent level.<<<<.......I would like this to happen

    I want add something as well
    To me there some time not enough written about how to write a line of code and why you write it this way

    The other problem to me is that when objects are written there is not of an explanation of how it works and why a line is written the way it is
    So if you are a begin novice you no have no idea how and why it works


    Most recently, what I have have found is the the "Hydra Manual" in "Part Two", and especially Chapters 14 and 15, offers the kind of over-view and noticing that move one from a disoriented, but enthusiastic beginner to a mainstream user.




    >> I guess I am basically lazy. << (I know that I am that way)>>>I want excellent texts with the shortest, most concise, explanation that will help me learn. << (ME too )(It doesn't matter if I am the student or the teacher -


    I've always felt that it is best to start a new topic ^^^^when you have completely explain each line code how and why something work then go to your next topic I know this allot of work but those kind tutorial are the best kind for me to learn from



    Chapters 14 and 15 would be about the right size. After that, one can progressively read longer books. And I also admit that I am a bit resentful that today's publishing has seemed to done away with having editors carefully watching over the publication of new materials. More and more the quality control is left to just the original author and they are exhausted by the time they finish a text. And often they feel underpaid and under-supported when it comes to cleaning up the final product. They just don't see their owns errors, especially when English is their 2nd language.

    In sum, the 'Getting Started' Tutorials are fine and I am sure you can add more; but an overall approach to study would help Parallax and all those interested in the Propeller. Meanwhile, I am heavily into reading the 'Hydra Manual' from cover-to-cover as it is the best we have got if you want to become an expert at programing the Propeller.

    So I guess I am saying that it is time to critically revise much of what is already published rather than develop more and more new resources. I have to agree as well
  • sam_sam_samsam_sam_sam Posts: 2,286
    edited 2010-10-29 10:05
    I just when through these three Tutorial:
    '
    : Multitasking Please show more examples of different thing that can be done for beginner to understand
    : Bl-inky Lights
    : Objects Please explain more of the objects that are on the forum for beginner to understand

    Could you do One Tutorial that would show you different way to have different PAUSE values in your routine and how to write them for beginner to understand just like you did in the Multitasking Tutorial

    Could you do One Tutorial that would show you how to have input value that if it is TRUE and FALSE do something for beginner to understand just like you did in the Bl-inky Lights Tutorial how to set this up

    Example IF IN1 = 1 THEN do something
    ELSE or ELSEIF

    I learned and understood allot PLEASE keep up the good work Thanks

    What I like is how you explain in detail what each command dose and a way to use it

    I know it allot of work to do one BUT I would like to see more of them I would then start using the Prop chip in some projects that I need to do more than one thing done at a time
  • Nick McClickNick McClick Posts: 1,003
    edited 2010-11-02 12:46
    @Sam - All good feedback. I think I'll do a basic 'pushbutton' to show how to increment, do if statements, and some more of the basic-type stuff you're looking for.

    I've also put the videos on to Gadget Gangster so they have a written component along with the videos.

    I put up a new one (here), this time on using objects to do text-to-speech. It's a non sequitur, I'll have to do one on just the symbol address operator. But I thought it would be fun to do something that shows off the Prop.
  • sam_sam_samsam_sam_sam Posts: 2,286
    edited 2010-11-02 15:40
    That was great I learn some thing here

    Some time when you have time could you do one on the key board object and video object so I could understand how it work every else who is just getting started

    Keep up the good work thanks :)
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