Obex suggestions.
Paul
Posts: 263
I was just over at OBEX because someone mentioned "FSRW" in the OBEX is used for file storage. Strangely enough I could not find the file name of the any of the files unless I went to each individual entry an clicked "Download File" just once to get the download popup that has the file name.
Using the search box provided gave me four different choices for "FSRW" and if the author didn't mention fsrw.net in his discription I would have had to open each one to find it.
Any chance in showing the filename somewhere? I think it used to be available a while ago but must have gotten lost in the shuffle.
Thanks for listening.
Paul
Using the search box provided gave me four different choices for "FSRW" and if the author didn't mention fsrw.net in his discription I would have had to open each one to find it.
Any chance in showing the filename somewhere? I think it used to be available a while ago but must have gotten lost in the shuffle.
Thanks for listening.
Paul
Comments
If this is truly how the search works, I think it should be fixed to allow searching of titles and not just descriptions.
fsrw site:obex.parallax.com
1. Very hard to get overview of what is available as many objects appear under two or more headings.
2. Headings are somewhat misleading and imprecise, very nonsensically boutique.
3. One cannot get an image of the whole library in order to organize to personal preference. One can only get one object at a time.
My advice to Parallax.
Take a good look at how many complaints and suggestions you are getting o OBEX. This area is really making it harder for the user to explore the Propeller and think creatively with existing objects. I often feel like i have to either develop my own objects independently to save time or go through a dreary very USER-UNFRIENDLY search process to determine what my choices are.
In sum --- either clean up OBEX or let me have a copy of the whole library to clean up myself.
Good Housekeeping will pay off.
When I read this I was so offended had to reply. The action of giving a company an ultimatum in a situation where they don't even have to supply the support that Parallax does is very offensive! So many different replies come to mind ... but I think the best one to share with everyone and you is simply:
Maybe you should ASK them for a copy; download it your self, but in the end run YOU don't have to use the OBEX. Parallax doesn't HAVE to even have the OBEX up and running; even more so when it's at THEIR expense!
Constructive criticism is a good thing; and in it's time and place, forceful words such as yours could be needed. This isn't the case here. One should be constructive in their criticism, helpful in their comments and sincere in their requests, but never ever issue an ultimatum to a company on a service they voluntarily offer. A number of us do use the OBEX and while there are short comings, there is no reason what so ever to be demanding and rude to the employees and members whom do maintain this collection of time saving code routines for fee.
Respect those whom give freely of their time, resources and knowledge. Think before you type and read before you click submit. Period. End of line. End of comment. End of the subject of disrespect (unless I offended a MOD or SYSOP, in which case they have the final say).
Fred Kerber
Well I asked quite nicely twice before in different threads and they have been ignored. Completely ignored. So I risked your wrath (oh my!)
I guess it is time to just go away. Thank you for showing me that.
Take a good look at what OBEX is and what SPIN is without it. Spin is a bare minimum language. OBEX is a significant library of objects that extends it into a rich language. But as a library, it is one of the most clumped together of any language. It is just plain hard and tedious to find anything (It is much easier to beg advice on the Forum than to study it independently.) Take a look at Python, Java, and so on. Object libraries are usually subject to rather concise management and OBEX is the exception. In the beginning it was good fun, but it has reached a size where it is unwieldy.
I am beginning to think after many years of being an avid Parallax supporter that there is a quality assurance issue that has crept it. The Hydra text is chock full of typos and in several cases just plain wrong info, but it is the only video text out there. I do realize that Parallax is very long on good programmers and EEs and very short on technical writers. I'd love write if I could, but I can't stay at a keyboard for more than a few hours a day due to broken neck at 23. Forty years late it has caught up with me.
What do you do when nice is ignored?
-Phil
I realize that Spin objects are very, very basic objects. It is an advantage for the beginner to not have to deal with inheritance, class, and whatever else (Java really put me into a tailspin, while Python is better - it is much more sophisticated).
But as it is, I generally have to download 2 or 3 objects that are similar for core functions and then try to figure out which is superior. Often, I've little basis for doing so.
If the beginner (as a new customer) is the foundation of Parallax's growth, I suspect my 'sour grapes' are helpful - not just a tantrum.
As an example, search for I2C, and you will find many I2C objects. Michael Green's Basic I2C Driver has the most downloads, and it's a good choice for accessing EEPROM. If you scan through the list you might find an I2C driver for a specific device that would be useful. There is also has a newer version of the Basic I2C Driver with fewer downloads, but more features. It might be a better choice.
When in doubt about which object to use, just post a query to the forum. You'll get lots of responses.
Loopy Byteloose; sorry if I came off as angry, half baked or rude / offensive; I do understand about the frustration you are feeling. I just don't want Parallax to "drop" the OBEX all-together. Again, my sorries if I was offensive.
Ok, enuff on that; we both voiced our opinions.
I've been thinking about the "What do you do when nice is ignored?" comment and the only thing that comes to mind is what my grand father taught me some years ago; "The squeakiest gear gets oiled first."
Maybe could give a "trusted forum member" the authority to maintain / organize / document (??) / filter objects on the OBEX?
I feel for you about the neck... Lumbar surgery has me limited; not the same as you, but similar.
Fred
I'd really like to contribute as a writer, but I can't even play with a Game Boy or Sega as they adversely affect me from the button pushing under the tension of the game.
Nonetheless, here are some constructive thoughts for Parallax.
1. Add a KEY WORD field to the Object listings in the OBEX for searching. Searches by KEY WORD would be more helpful and less server intensive than complete document word searches.
2. Add an ABSTRACT field of a definite limited size for the searcher to examine for suitabilty of the object prior to download.
Both text to be submitted with the OBJECT by the author, but the KEYWORD search would be subject to later revision by Parallax in order to improve search results and standardize jargon.
_______
Regarding the Hydra text, I would like to say that Andre LaMothe is a true asset to Parallax, but he really needs more editiorial help to maximize his in-depth knowledge. I have searched Parallax and his site Nurve.net for a Hydra errata file and it seems that none has ever been forth coming. It is overdue and the book would be greatly enhanced by a 2nd edition with full correction of mistakes.
To mention a few of the most glaring mistakes, he declares in Chapter 13 that NTSC and PAL are SOLELY broadcast AM. That is not true. The video is AM, the audio is FM. You can even tweak an FM radio reciever's band to receive the audio portion of a TV channel.
That may seem a small oversight, but in Chapter 9? - the discussion of audio hardware claims that frequency synthesis is frequency modulation - which is certainly untrue. Modulation is the combination a a carrier frequency with data, not just the creation of sounds.
The book needs to have greater clarity about how AM is generated in the Prop context, how FM is generated in the Prop context, what modulation really is, and what audio synthesis is.
It would also help to clearly point out that the Propeller hardware actually has two levels of PLLs (the system clock includes the global PLL and individual counters+PLL are two per cog) as a lot of people may easily get confused and perceive there is only one general type of PLLs. Also, a fundamental discussion of PLLs and their ability to morph into different roles would make them more understandable, less mysterious. It is somewhat confounding that the Propeller provides the 'hybrid' counter+PLL rather than just a counter and just a PLL that can easily be linked for utility. The text presumes the reader already knows what PLLs are and what they basically can do. That may be a poor assumption to make. Or it may be that I am just a dinosaur that is still thinking about Colpits oscillators and other artifacts of bygone days.
I may seem over sensitive to these things, but as Parallax goes global in sales more and more readers do not have good command of English and are likely to loose confidence in reading the English documents if they contradict fundamental electronics. It may even affect decisions to further purchase product. I certainly have boycotted a lot of other vendors that provide me with bad documents, some of them have been serious competitors of Parallax that failed with excellent hardware, but couldn't explain the product in written text.
Hopefully as this will be taken positively. One certainly doesn't have to have perfect English to participate in Parallax's creative process and I am awed by several contributors that don't - in particular Andre LaMothe and Guenther Daubach. But publication should never merely expect the author to carry the whole editorial load. And publication of errata is absolutely necessary with technical material to have credibility.
Finally, I'd just like to say that books don't have to be big to be a big value to me. Most computer books today have taken that approach and all it really does is to burden the reader with higher shipping costs and having to carry a 5 kilo tome to study. 150 pages of well written material or a 700 page book that is divided into 3 texts for portability and study are of more use to nearly all readers. The Hydra text I have is falling apart due to its huge size and I am ready to have it divided into 3 volumes to be rebound and recovered as it never has been convenient to study.
Best of luck to all.
they would greatly help in finding items in the obex.
additionally, documentation ... documentation.. and "how to" should be included for the new Parallax product owner!
KK
Having a dynamic OBEX that can be filtered sounds ideal, but not easily implemented. For example, it would be nice to have a category for SD Card Objects that has each Object tagged with an icon/identifier to distinguish it's status as how "good" of an object it is. Factors like clean code, speed, cog usage optimization, size, etc would be rated to give it an overall score. Also, icons could be used for other things such as "Newbie Approved", "PASM Knowledge Required", "Fully Commented", "Modified for Specific Functions", etc, etc. As a newbie, I need all the help I can get when picking things from the OBEX or modified Objects from threads for my projects.
Think of how hotels use icons on their room pages to detail what amenities the room offers (kitchenette, jacuzzi tub, king size bed, etc, etc).:idea:
The OBEX has a lot of room for improvement and it's my opinion that the improvements need to be driven by the users, not Parallax. If we were able to define the improvements in a fully documented spec, I would think Parallax would add it to their to-do list.
:cool: I would love to chair the definition of an improved OBEX spec concept, but with my current workload, it would have to be a January/February project. I think we have an excellent forum group that can make it happen.
KK
Unix has utilities that can take these sections of an ordinary text file and let the end user easily create his own custom filters. Eventually, a list of 'suggested standard keywords' will evolve that enhances the value to the searches.
I really don't care to 'mircomanage' Parallax's web sites. I just want to enhance the end-user/customer's experience and creative process.
Rating code by suitability, popularity, etc. are all rather labor intensive and problematic. If you try to make rating 'robotic' they just turn to mush.
In sum, enhance user search access with a clear simple process, but leave the user to make the final judgment.
Some keywords can be very useful as new and better code evolves - like "first_choice", "obsolete", "alternative", and so on to point the way to better code when improvements do evolve. These keywords should be used sparingly and be applied only when necessary and obvious to knowledgeable users for guidance of the newcomer.
One thing is sure, the problems will continue to grow until something is done.
Any solution driven solely by users trying to rate and revise users or solely by Parallax managing the merits of code and documentation are doomed. Parallax needs to provide some oversight to assure access is well guided; the community should focus on provided good, clean, conforming code and explanatory documentation when required. I have also felt they should provide the first draft of the Abstracts and Key Word lists so that Parallax can have a starting point. But of course, Paralllax has the final word on what is included (a normal editiorial privledge).
In anything really might need arbitration, it would be the selection and mean of key words. That might lend itself best to a collaborative review between Parallax 'Big Wigs' and willing 'users' that have delegated authority to seek solutions that seem fair and inoffensive to all.
I was thinking the same thing while I read this thread... If a few from the community took ownership of the problem it would be a real asset to both Parallax and the community at large. We need another hero.
There is much which can be done on so many levels... It's pretty easy to sit back a discuss it over a cup of coffee on the forums. It's another thing to step up and be part of the solution. I challenge folks to find their way to be part of the solutions.
OBC
The SPIN IDE has no feature to adapt to Key Word searches and reading Abstracts.
And so, why not just have it developed as a second file with the same name but a .txt extention?
That file could be handled with generic Unix/Linux utilities or searched for Apple and Windows could be provided by having same utilities ported over to OSX or Windows.
Also, it may be enough to keep the OBEX only at a Parallax server while allowing the more compact Abstract/Keyword files to be distributed in a zip form.
BTW, does anyone from Parallax really visit the 'Suggestions to Parallax'. Am I the only person feeling ignored here?
I like Kaos Kidd's mention of OBEX providing HOW TO files. But I suspect that it would be a bit difficult to have all authors write up a HOW TO file in order to have their code accepted. Some code just has too many possible users to provide an exhaustive HOW TO document, other objects are quite obvious, and many have been presented in tutorials here and elsewhere.
An alternative would be to have an elective HOW TO system in 'Downloads' where a separate directory offers HOW TO documents provided by anyone that is willing to do so about any object. That is pretty much the way Linux culture works. Sometimes HOW TOs are written in a very rigorous fashion by the author(s) of the original code and at other times HOW TOs are written by an avid user that finds the process productive to his own learning and is generous enough to share
The main think here is to keep the creative process open to the newer users and the community at large. There are tons of people that want to learn, but are both shy and wary of where to begin. They browse until they find a project that fits their comfort zone or appeals to their personal needs.