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A much faster Basic Stamp — Parallax Forums

A much faster Basic Stamp

Capt. QuirkCapt. Quirk Posts: 872
edited 2010-10-06 09:15 in General Discussion
Is it possible to use the eeprom from the PropII, combined with an SX48@50mhz, and Pbasic 2.5. Or an improved Pbasic 2.6 version that may even include interrupts?

Create a new BS3 line comprising of this new proposed version and the Spin Stamp.

The Interrupts idea is purely a marketing idea, it may not be necessary, but there is a perceived need for interrupts. The BS3 idea is also a marketing idea, to separate these two from whatever baggage people attribute to the BS2 line.

Given it's been 15 years since the BS2 was released, The time is right for a BS3!

Bill M.

Another possibility for the proposed BS3, is a C++ Stamp

Comments

  • W9GFOW9GFO Posts: 4,010
    edited 2010-10-02 14:54
    Why not just use a Propeller combined with a Parallax version of PropBasic?

    A 32 bit, 8 core Basic Stamp 3 would be awesome!

    Rich H
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2010-10-02 16:34
    W9GFO wrote: »
    Why not just use a Propeller combined with a Parallax version of PropBasic? A 32 bit, 8 core Basic Stamp 3 would be awesome!
    Isn't that what the Spin Stamp running PropBASIC is? :)

    -Phil
  • W9GFOW9GFO Posts: 4,010
    edited 2010-10-02 19:38
    Almost. If you could load up BS2 programs into it then you could call it a BS3.

    Rich H
  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2010-10-02 20:19
    Just my opinion ... Given that the SX series processors will no longer be available after the current substantial stock is depleted, I really doubt that Parallax would invest the considerable effort in rewriting the Stamp byte code interpreter for the SX plus the Stamp Editor.

    The Spin Stamp works pretty well. 12Blocks is a great programming system for beginners that's usable with the Spin Stamp. PropBasic is pretty good, still having stuff added to it and it's free. FemtoBasic also works. With Cluso99's 1-pin keyboard and display drivers, you'd only need to use 2 I/O pins to support a PS/2 keyboard and a B&W TV display for the programming console.

    I'm not sure whether it would be better to try to produce a compiler for Stamp Basic that would produce either Spin source code or Spin byte codes vs. a Spin byte code interpreter for the Propeller. The first has the advantage of not needing any Parallax proprietary information while the latter is probably simpler. Parallax doesn't have the resources to do either, particularly with the need to produce a new Spin interpreter and compiler for the Prop II coming up.
  • Capt. QuirkCapt. Quirk Posts: 872
    edited 2010-10-03 10:12
    With the exception of the BS2 (that still uses a Pic), the entire line of BS2E's, BS2P's and BS2SX use a SX28 or SX48. The BS3 would only be an upgraded version of the BS2P. By upgrading (if possible) an existing product line, and discontinuing the previous version, Parallax can rely on its stock of SX micros that they have kept for producing Basic Stamps and other Parallax products that are SX based.

    The obvious downside would be the possible depletion of their SX chips sooner than what was projected. But if there was an eeprom available that allowed 50,000 + Pbas instructions/sec. A change like this would warrant a new name like BS3. This would make a dent on overcoming the idea Stamps are too slow, and still provide the utility Pbasic provides.

    Sadly, people are more concerned with speed over utility, or perceived Horsepower vs. Great Torque. No matter what we purchase, we make a decision about Horsepower vs. Price. Keep the BS2, upgrade the BS2P.
  • HumanoidoHumanoido Posts: 5,770
    edited 2010-10-03 17:11
    With the exception of the BS2 (that still uses a Pic), the entire line of BS2E's, BS2P's and BS2SX use a SX28 or SX48. The BS3 would only be an upgraded version of the BS2P. By upgrading (if possible) an existing product line, and discontinuing the previous version, Parallax can rely on its stock of SX micros that they have kept for producing Basic Stamps and other Parallax products that are SX based.

    The obvious downside would be the possible depletion of their SX chips sooner than what was projected. But if there was an eeprom available that allowed 50,000 + Pbas instructions/sec. A change like this would warrant a new name like BS3. This would make a dent on overcoming the idea Stamps are too slow, and still provide the utility Pbasic provides.

    Sadly, people are more concerned with speed over utility, or perceived Horsepower vs. Great Torque. No matter what we purchase, we make a decision about Horsepower vs. Price. Keep the BS2, upgrade the BS2P.
    You could look at the entire line of BASIC Stamps as singularity progression from the BS1 and culminating in the BS2px line. To make a BS3, Mike Green has very good advice.
    Mike Green said, The Spin Stamp works pretty well. 12Blocks is a great programming system for beginners that's usable with the Spin Stamp. PropBasic is pretty good, still having stuff added to it and it's free. FemtoBasic also works. With Cluso99's 1-pin keyboard and display drivers, you'd only need to use 2 I/O pins to support a PS/2 keyboard and a B&W TV display for the programming console.
    You can also find PBASIC commands in the OBEX, if you must work with PBASIC. Plus, the speed of a Propeller chip configured as a BASIC Stamp 3, with new features, and less cost, will upgrade previous stamps. A SpinStamp will fit one of the existing Stamp boards. What is your application?
  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2010-10-03 18:39
    The SpinStamp could be improved quite a bit with three changes:

    1) Connect the output transistor in the SOUT circuitry to the +5V supply rather than Vdd. This would provide an SIN to +5V logic voltage range for SOUT which, with an idle SIN input level at -5V, would at least give the same RS232 compatibility as the Stamps.

    2) Substitute a 64K EEPROM for the 32K EEPROM now included. This would allow the use of a loader on SIN / SOUT like that used by the Propeller Backpack rather than needing a PropClip.

    3) Add a +5V output to the area set aside for the PropClip and use some other type of compact connector (5-pin: I/O 30, I/O 31, /Reset, Gnd, +5V). This would allow an external adapter board to be developed that could provide a standard PropPlug interface or a 1-pin keyboard and TV display interface complete with necessary resistors and connectors.

    An alternative would be to extend the length of the module by 2mm so some other kind of connector could be used. With extra pins, perhaps some other I/O pins could be brought off the module for special uses.

    I'm not sure what to do about the logic voltage range difference. A 220 Ohm series resistor on the I/O pins would provide some protection against connecting to a 5V signal level and there's a precedence in the Homework Board. Unfortunately, a 1K or 2.2K resistor is what is needed, but that wouldn't work for outputs where more than a mA or so of drive is needed. There's no room available for logic level translators and those have their own problems. The resistors could be put on a revised BOE and would make the BOE be similar to the Homework Board as far as a Stamp is concerned.
  • bruceebrucee Posts: 239
    edited 2010-10-06 08:25
    As the SX has essentially gone away, and its unlikely that the Prop I would be redesigned for 5V tolerance. There are only a couple options.

    One would be a Prop 2 with 5 volt tolerant IOs (hopefully that's a feature) and a reduced bond out package so it fits in the Stamp form factor. The question then is when will this happen.

    The other alternative is to look to other micro-controllers. The PIC is eminantly popular, but single sourced. The 8051 is getting long in the tooth design wise and the number of vendors supporting it are decreasing. Both these have pretty reasonable versions less than 50 cents in reasonable quantities. Next is the AVR which is wildly popular in the Arduino community, but it is also single sourced. What difference does single sourcing make, well about 2 years ago it was rumored that MicroChip was going to buy Atmel. What happens then, the thinking was then MicroChip would be selling PIC flavors, MIPs versions of PIC, ARM derivatives from Atmel and AVR. Looking at the volumes the AVR is low man on that totum pole, and could easily go away or get spun out into a different company. The last alternative is the ARM, which has a wide range of variants from 50 cent parts going into 100Ks of coffee makers to ARM9/11 going into cell phones and everything in between. It also has a host of licensees, so lots of competition at all levels that keeps the prices down.
  • RobotWorkshopRobotWorkshop Posts: 2,307
    edited 2010-10-06 09:15
    I made a module using the Propeller that uses the BS2p40 footprint:

    http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?t=92127

    It has a MAX3232 and adjusts the rest logic so that the regular serial connection for programming the Stamp will Program the Propeller instead. Each I/O pin has a spot for a small resistor (or solder bridge) so in some cases it can drop in place of an existing BS2p40 Stamp.

    The design is done and I can get boards made up any time if there was interest.

    Robert
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