About to take the plunge...designing my first PCB.
Ravenkallen
Posts: 1,057
I downloaded the ExpressPCB software and i got a few extra bucks sitting around. Do you guys that use ExpressPCB have any advice? Or some simple schematics i can study? I plan on making a simple board just to test the idea out. I might make a propeller "demo" board, consisting of a few external components....I am really excited...Oh and is the 51 dollar price for three boards? Can you only order one?
Comments
there prices are good in small quantities for us residents. but they suck if you want to get a lot of boards done.
What i don't like is it does not output gerbers. Because of that you can not get your boards made anywhere else but from them.
Eagle has a very steep learning curve, but all the unusual parts are there and the autorouter makes it much easier. I wrote it all up here http://www.instructables.com/id/Professional-PCBs-almost-cheaper-than-making-them-/
There are tricks you learn along the way, like making power traces thicker, and telling the autorouter to not place vias too close to solder pads (makes soldering much easier). If the autorouter fails you can change the grid size, and then it is a matter of balancing speed vs ability to completely route. I do about 10 autoroutes, and each time I put the components closer together until it fails.
Keep us posted with photos etc. Designing PCBs is great fun.
Then I lived in Hamilton, ON, Canada
I usually export files for my cnc to route pcbs at home (and sometimes print to that rub'n'blue pcb stuff and etch boards in the garage), but I have also exported gerbers for the pcb houses too (when the vias get too small and too many!). What I mean to say is that this software will "do it all", and still has a really easy to use interface. Maybe somewhere between the ExpressPCB program and Eagle (probably nearer Express for use and Eagle for technical ability).
Might be worth a try before you invest your time in learning one or the other. I am not here to push a particular brand of pcb software, but your comment that you are not worried about the money now, just to get the business going, seems to ring some alarm bells with me!
In my opinion, it does not matter how much money you have... it is DEFINATELY important to worry about money now, especially when starting a new business! When your success comes and you are really busy meeting customer needs, you really do not need the hassle later of switching software etc.. Mctrivia speaks from experience I am sure - he is right to advise you to learn something generic from the start and only exhaust your valuable time learning something once (and well) !
All the best with everything,
Max.
Of course, once you get hooked on making your own PCBs, there are many directions you can go. Learning to use expressPCB isn't going to preclude you from learning something else.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Awesome and spot on advice!
KK
Easy-PC is supposed to be good, PCB123 is similar to ExpressPCB (tied to a fab house), but a much better fab house, both Eagle and DipTrace have free versions.
My suggestions would be DipTrace, then upgrade as you need. The money you spend on a quality CAD suite will easily be saved once you make a few PCB fabrication orders. And you won't have to relearn a CAD system once you find the shortcomings of ExpressPCB are all true.
You will also find a lot more support from users on forums (and from us) if you use a real CAD suite.
Who knows, maybe i even make my own boards someday..Of course i will need to buy a laser printer, haha....Actually while on the subject, i heard that you can use a photocopier for the toner transfer method, instead of a Laserprinter? Is that really true?
Take care; the program does not notify you of errors you make, and there is very little assistance. Make sure you make a schematic first, what little help it gives you is priceless.
Do not use traces thinner than 0.01". Some of the problems I had were on traces smaller than that. If you can stand a larger clearance than default, do so, more than half the problems I had were the space between copper not being removed. Added space should help that a bit.
Straight lines are not the easiest thing to do in ExpressPCB, but they will make your finished design look much better. Do not use 90-degree angles on the traces, always do two 45-degree angles instead.
It may be helpful to try to put vertical traces on one side and horizontal traces on the other.
Attached are some custom components I use (like the propeller). I have more, but these seemed like the most common ones.
I am in no way saying don't use PCB expresses fab service. The boards they did make for me where done properly and I doubt they will screw yours up. There prices are great for small orders also. I am suggesting using a different program and submitting the gerbers to them.
Why because eventually you will want to use a different board manufacturer. if you use a different program then this is easy. if you use there software then you will have to convert every thing you have designed to a new format.
I have thousands of hours of work into many pcb designs. All in eagle. there is no way I would want to redraw them all. And i often build new products based on old designs.
If you spend a year using pcb expresses software you will not want to spend a few months redrawing everything so you can affordable get boards made somewhere else.
For expressPCB, if you draw one trace over another on the same side of the board then copper gets laid down for both traces and they will be electrically connected. Also, you have to be careful when you simply connect two traces together without "passing through" a component pin: sometimes the software doesn't think the two free-ended traces are connected, so if you were to move one trace, the other trace won't necessarily remain connected. You can tell the two traces have not linked up if you move one trace and the other trace stays put.
On the expressPCB Standard service you'll be able to place components on both sides of the board. In practice, it's probably best to keep most or all of your components on one side of the board and use both sides of the board to run traces. As others have already mentioned: consider running traces on one side, say, north-south, and traces on the opposite side, east-west. These are then connected to each other via the vias. (Yes, vias are electrical connections going from one side of the board to the other, usually to join traces). Also consider placing your components so they all have their pin number 1's in the same orientation: this just makes it easier when soldering so you don't get confused.
Be sure to double check that the hole sizes for components actually will allow the pins of your components enough diameter to fit through. One of my first mistakes was just assuming that the default case was okay and I had to shave down some component pins to get them to fit.
Funny, but I always presumed that a 2-layer board was the same thing as a Double-sided board, but now that you asked the question (and it's late at night) I'm not so sure. I believe 4 layer boards allow you to sandwich power planes, etc inside the board, or giving you more layers to run traces. Solder mask and silk screen are nifty things, but you can easily live without them if you're soldering only through-hole components.
Quoting expressPCB website:
Standard Service boards have top and bottom copper layers with all holes plated through. They do not include solder masks or silkscreen layers, which are primarily cosmetic.
re "...They do not include solder masks or silkscreen layers, which are primarily cosmetic."
The solder mask makes soldering a lot easier, and solder bridges a lot less likely. Silkscreen layers make it much easier to solder the board - with all the labels on a silkscreen I find I never need to look up any schematics or layout drawings when soldering up a board. Silkscreen is useful for a description of a jumper.