More Prop Pins & States
Humanoido
Posts: 5,770
The Prop currently has 32 pins. A pin can have 3 states, input, output, and limbo.
How can additional pins/input/output/states be created with the same number of pins? (for controlling more external objects with the same number of pins)
How can additional pins/input/output/states be created with the same number of pins? (for controlling more external objects with the same number of pins)
Comments
I'd like to hear more about this limbo state. Is that a " hidden state "?
With external hardware, you can create other states. The simplest is an RC network to make a DAC. Theoretically, you could use just wiring to create the R and stray circuit capacitance to create the C, but it's still an external RC network.
http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/MM/MM74HC4051.pdf
I know from experience that limbo states can be achieved by having really bad grounding in your circuit. It's possible, but of what use could it be?
-Phil
Sure, under certain circumstances pins can be shared as both inputs and outputs, but that depends mainly on the external circuitry.
Really, Humanoido, I believe you should put more thought into your musings before you post. Over 2000 posts and most of it utter nonsense.
Considering counters as an increase in the Prop's MIPS is just rediculous. In that case any manufacturer's chip with an internal UART or other peripheral should claim the same. MIPS are INSTRUCTIONS per second, period.
And I would not worry too soon about maxing out your kitchen wall outlet at 20 amps and 220 volts; let's see that's over 4000 watts. Even at one watt per Prop, that would imply a tower of some 4000 Props....... try and get that to be more useful than a heater. A tower of Props with all cogs doing nop's as fast as they can does not a super computer make, even if you call it an Ultra Spark!
I am offended by your trivializing the common industry understanding of a Super Computer, and how it could be built by just jamming a bunch of Props together. Some 15 years ago I was involved in a company that built some Super Computers, and were able to do some real work and generally that meant FLOPs. The more the better as most real word compute problems are not integer based. For a brief period of time (a week or so) we had the world's record in performance as well as node count... 1043 processors as I recall.
And a significant part was the software to carve the problems into small distributable pieces and make them all operate in unison. We did 3D seismic modeling, weather modeling, pharmaceutical modeling and some other "black" applications for sectretive government services that I can't talk about. The US military was a significant sponsor and all together over $41 million dollars were spent pursuing this dream..... all by some VERY, VERY clever people.
So your rantings about Propeller super computers when clearly you either have not read, or do not comprehend the documentation and workings of the Propeller, are not appreciated.
Oh, now I get it, I suspect you are just looking to see your name in print... why else would you rate your own threads as five stars before anyone else has the chance to rate them as trash?
So give us a break, and back off.
P.S. Oh, never mind, I think there is a way for me to put you on an "ignore this idiot" list.
Cheers,
Peter (pjv)
"2. an uncertain period of awaiting a decision or resolution."
Well, that does pretty much define the state of a pin that's left floating. (Actually, if one were to be pedantic about it, it's probably a better definition of an input in a metastable state. But that's just nitpicking.)
-Phil
Perhaps such an array of floating pins could allow for some sort of psychic interaction. Are we foreseeing Limbotronic Pin Processors in the near future?
What do yo mean?:)
I remember when JW Campbell got involved with radionics, and was convinced that a schematic drawn on paper with components like pots connected to it by threads could work as well as real hardware, via some sort of psi effect. Perhaps that approach could work with limbo pins.
Peter,
I tend to agree. Maybe there should be a "Blue Sky" forum.
There is a lot of useful information and helpful people in these forums but it is not a substitute for reading the documentation...
Sorry you asked because now I feel obliged to further expose my uncomplimentary feelings on this poster.
Based on the type of posts he makes, my take on this chap's ability to do anything in the realm of a Super computer is, well, zero. And the larger he wants to make it, the worse it gets. He simply does not comprehend the Propeller.
That is not to say that a large cluster of Props could not be turned into a useful device of some sort.... it probably could, for some special applications, but certainly not in the context of today's Super computers. FLOPS is the name of that game, and the inter-processor communication needs for a large cluster of Props is self-defeating. Crank up the bandwidth, and you sacrifice processor cycles for the FLOPS. With programmed (software driven) I/O you are very limited.
Super computer (in the traditional context) ? .... NO WAY!
Cheers,
Peter (pjv)
Cheers,
Peter (pjv)
I have copies of the editorials where John Campbell discussed his experiments with "virtual electronics". He had built a copy of the Hieronymous machine which was patented as a mineral detector, but really functions as a sort of psychic amplifier much like dowsing rods. He found that it worked for some people and better for some than others. Because of a number of principles in alchemy ... things like symbolic equivalence, he came up with the idea of substituting symbols (schematic drawings) for the actual active electronics in the device, all in a closed box, known only to him. Anyway, he got the same success rate for mineral identification for the symbolic representation as for the "real" device.
Floating input pins should be avoided.
If you have input pins connected to external circuitry and biased to near the threshold voltage, you can also get oscillation (which may be deliberately provoked). This can be a source of switching noise or RF where you may not want it.
That's what we need! Propeller powered Radionic devices! I'm going to whip up a Prop powered Wishing Amplifier right now and program it to produce a Prop 2 for me.
Just ask Chip for an image of the Prop 2, and use that.
I used to spend my pocket money on his Astounding Science Fiction mags when I was about 12 years old, and remember his editorials on that stuff.
I was "trained" in the use of this "device" by an electrician that I hired to do some work at my property. He swore by it, and I've been rather amazed at how it works as well.
Is this thread fully adrift or is this another manifestation of floating pins?
As an observation, I find the response by Humanoido that follows this one to be a dignified and classy response. Good job, sir.
Hey, I'm always learning good things from the answers people post to your questions. You tend to ask questions about things I know I'll need to learn about in the next few months.
Okay, so maybe my comment about Limbotronic Pin Processors might seem uncharacteristically sarcastic of me, but allow me to defend myself by saying this: I recently heard that one of the pioneers of EEGs {Hans Berger?} got his start in that field (no pun intended) because he had some sort of experiences that he interpreted to be of a psychic nature. So he developed (invented?) the EEG to prove that psychic phenomena were caused by brain waves. Well, I don't think he ever proved anything conclusive about psychic phenomena, but he did get the ball rolling on EEGs. So the moral of the story is: you never know what you might end up doing with your passion for hooking up things with wires. It might not be what you intended when you started out, but that doesn't mean it's not worth doing, anyway. Is it?
I am also new to the Propeller. I have read the Propeller manual and many other informative documents recommended by forum members and
I am experimenting with my own code and objects from the OBEX.
Based on the content of many of your posts, it seems you have not studied the manual.
I can't remember seeing any SPIN or PASM code attributed to you or questions about specific program issues.
Your fascination with supercomputers and your 40 Prop tower makes me wonder if it actually does anything.
Stacking a bunch of Proto boards on top of each other is simply that - a stack of boards.
How did this end up in the Completed Projects forum?
Where is the program code, circuit diagrams, etc, etc???
How do the microcontrollers share data and allocate tasks?
Where are the details about the communication interface?
What external sensors or devices does it utilize?
You recently created a thread titled "Make a Faster I/O (Advanced Programmers Only)" - If you are a novice, why would you be qualified to explore or discuss advanced topics?
A person trying to learn new hardware and programming language would best concentrate on working with a single microcontroller and it's capabilities and idiosyncrasies rather than "Blue Sky" supercomputer design...
You needn't be so thin-skinned. We all suffer occasional jabs, and yet we manage to pick ourselves up and persevere, all without suggesting that we don't get the same respect we confer to others. To hint at such a lack of reciprocity is rather passive-aggressively manipulative, IMO.
Frankly -- and I don't say this out of disrespect -- some of your posts are "out there". As a consequence, there's an occasional disconnect with the less ... um ... fantastic reality that most of us share. So, this being more of a grade school playground than a gentleman's club, you're bound to invite the sometimes biting humor that you seem to find offensive. Geez, man, get over it! Accept it with good (possibly even self-deprecating) humor, and move on. The number of responses your threads attract indicate that you have a large following, and that should be more than satisfying, without letting a few negative or sarcastic comments ruin your day.
In the meantime, when traveling in unfamiliar territory, it always helps to learn the native language!
-Phil
The pins does have 3 states, any used incorrectly the 3rd state could be in a limbo state.
The 3rd state is putting the pin to input and it will put the pin around of 3meg ohm
and should be considered disconnected.
The 3rd state can be used in OpenDrain,
where output with a 0(ground) to signal a active state.
And when the pin is turned around to be a input to change the state
of the line that is pulled high by a resistor to Vdd.
Benefits is that many OpenDrain devices can share the same bus-line
without risk of shorting the circuit.
A trick to use the 3rd state, But you would need external hardware (resistors and half of a 74LVC86).
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_DtWKs1m5EYc/S24Ya2jHPvI/AAAAAAAAANI/2AbMog9upSI/s800/tristateEOR.jpg