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Project Mystery — Parallax Forums

Project Mystery

HumanoidoHumanoido Posts: 5,770
edited 2010-09-07 13:21 in Propeller 1
Parallax has a policy of posting projects for Project of the Week from their Project Forum. This allows everyone to access and see the projects, photos, code and schematic. However, today I see "Kilocore' by F. Michael O'Brien" which is linked to an off-forum website blocked from my location.

Humanoido

Comments

  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2010-09-06 09:22
    I don't have any problem accessing it:

    http://www.kilocore.com/

    It doesn't seem to have progressed very far; the last update was December 2008.
  • HumanoidoHumanoido Posts: 5,770
    edited 2010-09-06 09:39
    Leon wrote: »
    I don't have any problem accessing it:
    http://www.kilocore.com/
    You can access it because your government is not blocking it. My point is why did Parallax change its policy? I have no problem accessing the Parallax Forums.

    Leon, since you can see the project, is it a complete project with code, schematic and photos?

    I have a list of multi propeller projects and would be interested in this project's inclusion.

    Maybe someone can post a Firefox page zip file.

    Humanoido
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2010-09-06 10:33
    Here is is:

    http://www.leonheller.com/Propeller/KILOCORE.COM_files/

    I've uploaded all the files, just click on a.htm. The links seem to work, as well.
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2010-09-06 10:38
    There is some weird proxying going on with that site. Opera reports redirection to a null URL, whatever that means. Humanoido, you may just have redireciton turned off in your browser.

    -Phil
  • HumanoidoHumanoido Posts: 5,770
    edited 2010-09-07 01:11
    Leon wrote: »
    Here is is:

    http://www.leonheller.com/Propeller/KILOCORE.COM_files/

    I've uploaded all the files, just click on a.htm. The links seem to work, as well.
    Thanks Leon! That works great, plus the links are there too.

    It looks like a really great project but very interesting to see it built so differently from others. I think that given 100 people to do the same project we would see 100 different interesting methods.

    I was surprised to see that I had the project already linked here
    But I don't know what happened to the links, though I have some ideas.
    http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?t=124172

    The 4-cog per chip was also surprising with the remaining handling the overhead. I'm currently working on software to bring everything into a cog which is taking some effort to free up all eight cogs per chip more or less.. Thanks again Leon.

    Humanoido
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2010-09-07 01:29
    Humanoido,
    The 4-cog per chip was also surprising with the remaining handling the overhead.

    Should be no surprise there. We have discussed this before. Somehow all those Props have to communicate. Even if you were using some simple UART based serial "bus" strung between all the Props that would be two COGs (Tx and Rx) used. Probably a third to manage the protocol and scheduling of work within the Prop.
  • HumanoidoHumanoido Posts: 5,770
    edited 2010-09-07 02:08
    There is some weird proxying going on with that site. Opera reports redirection to a null URL, whatever that means. Humanoido, you may just have redireciton turned off in your browser.-Phil
    Hi Phil, I opened up FireFox but didn't find any setting on redirection. Usually these effects are from blocking the web by the China government. I didn't know it was proxy'd too. The site, shall we say, had a workaround back about 3-4 months ago but this time it was all strange and not accessible. Leon really helped with this one by putting up a host which works perfect. A lot of sites come up blocked, but Leon has a very reliable web site.

    Humanoido
  • HumanoidoHumanoido Posts: 5,770
    edited 2010-09-07 02:48
    Heater. wrote: »
    Humanoido, Should be no surprise there. We have discussed this before. Somehow all those Props have to communicate. Even if you were using some simple UART based serial "bus" strung between all the Props that would be two COGs (Tx and Rx) used. Probably a third to manage the protocol and scheduling of work within the Prop.
    Heater, you're right, and I hope we don't fill up the cogs.. They say the cog cup is half empty, not half full.. :) I was not thinking about using a universal asynchronous receiver/transmitter or any extra piece of computer hardware to translate data. The thinking is to keep everything based on the Propeller chip. Cogs can pass data back and forth between a shared resource bus at practically no overhead. Of course you need two cogs - one to speak and one to listen. That doesn't use up the entire cog and HUB RAM. When programming in 256 bytes using the RCACDP1802MPU, things were always made to fit, sometimes with space left over. The BASIC Stamp's single core is fitted with resources that can be compared to the prop/cog, but even so, it too is very capable and powerful. The cog is a vast multifunctional multipurpose place.. seriously I think your mind is so great in programming that when you try some new simple things with it in the future, it will be a piece of cake.

    Humanoido
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2010-09-07 04:41
    I've never filched someone's web page like that before and I'm somewhat surprised that it worked. I'm not sure of the legality of it, I'm probably infringing his copyright.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2010-09-07 04:48
    Humanoido,
    I was not thinking about using a universal asynchronous receiver/transmitter or any extra piece of computer hardware to translate data.

    No not me either. I was thinking in terms of a software UART in Cog and a simple serial bus joining all the Props. This would be the simplest and slowest way of connecting them. Only one Prop can speak at a time. But possibly a good place to start.

    When you want to increase total communication bandwidth you add more connections between Propellers.

    For example a 4 dimensional hyper cube would have a 16 Props, one at each "corner". Each of those Props is connected to 4 neighbors. Using a serial link, like FullDuplexSerial for each connection will eat 4 COGs from each Propeller.

    Moving to a 5 dimensional hypercube with 32 Props each now has 5 links to neighbors so 5 COGS would be used in communication.

    Of course one might move on to something a bit faster that a FullDuplexSerial style UART driver. Perhaps half duplex and using longs or blocks of longs instead of just bytes.
  • obrienmobrienm Posts: 65
    edited 2010-09-07 08:29
    Hi,
    Thank you for all your interest in this exciting work. This happens to be my site, so I will answer some of the open questions posted here.
    1) Blocked Site: The website may be blocked by some service providers on occasion (not likely country firewalls) because I happen to use a discount US provider (at 25% cost). Unfortunately because of this (they host around 482,000 other domains) – some of their other sites may contain content or highly repetitive traffic patterns that causes the 2nd level domain namesecure.com’s IP addresses to be automatically blocked including everything that points to the main site by your hosting provider.
    http://www.objectivej.com/hardware/propcluster/index.html
    http://dataparallel.org/
    http://gigacore.org/
    http://kiloprocessor.com/
    http://propellercluster.com
    http://obriendevices.com/
    http://obrienlabs.com/
    For example in 2007 Bell blocked all my hosted sites for 24 hours but Rogers did not.
    The solution is to try a different service provider temporarily (I run both ADSL and Cable for redundancy). I have hosted as a favour an open source software domain redirect set for my corporate employer and we have only had the single 24h service disruption in the last 3 years. The problem is definitely on your end because since you last asked my in a private message to collaborate (I like to keep my hardware work unscheduled, exploratory and ad-hoc) the site was working for you – and I have not changed anything in the 4 months since.

    2) Site is out of date: I only update it on major milestones lately.
    I was not able to complete my more ambitious project of a 6-dimensional hypercube connected grid of 256 cores (I am currently limited by i/o pins per chip without extensive use of 595 SIPO and 165 PISO multiplexed I/O line expansion) in time for the last Parallax contest early this year because of the complexity of the routing software (it involves a lot more than XOR address mapping). My proposed similar simpler SIMD project for 2011 involves using all 8 cores with simple 1 bit protocol-less bidirectional (more than NEWS) local grid connections (essentially a non-optimal simulation of cellularautomata.net ). As we all know the hardware is easy – it is the software that is challenging (I come at this from a software background).
    That said, I no longer post incremental updates and will upload all design, implementation and reference/credit details on the project when it is complete. I don’t know about you guys but I find continual design distracts from working prototypes. Every time I finalize a set of protocols – I find a better design or start working on the next one in parallel.
    Leon, when the next contest closes or earlier - you can take the copied pages offline, so we don't have differing versions on Google.
    3) Why only 4 cogs for SIMD work? As related, I need at least 1 cog to handle routing (if we are using a secondary hypercube or CCC network to handle the incoming and outgoing packet queues as well as routing between the 4 internal cogs). The same or other cogs can handle NEWS and optionally diagonal local routing either directly on pins or via 165/595 multiplexing (this is why the Rapport Kilocore had 1024+1 cores and partially why the IBM cell has 8 Streaming processors and 1 integer unit to communicate off chip.
    One of the only ways to use all 8 cores for SIMD work and also communicate off chip is to dedicate several I/O pins to each core leaving only 12-14 for control/sync tasks.
    So, here is an incremental block diagram for my last project that shows one verified method of getting data in and out of the SIMD cores via complementary 165 and 595 chips - one that is limited by serial access via the host controller cog.
    4) I don’t know how my site came up on the radar of the weekly projects link – I got an email from a polite gentleman hardware designer a couple of hours later letting me know last week.
    I would like to say that my interest in the propeller is solely as a proof of concept and simulation platform to investigate various software concurrency problems involving a large number of SIMD threads backed by 1-1 hardware granularity. The propeller chip allows me to work both sides (hardware and software) with ease of expansion due to the low cost DIP form factor and ease of bootstrapping the SIMD code via propellent from the host PC. For this I am gratefull to Parallax Inc.

    Thank you
    /michael
    735 x 648 - 227K
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2010-09-07 08:47
    Shall I remove them now, Michael? It looks like the problem only happens now and again.
  • obrienmobrienm Posts: 65
    edited 2010-09-07 13:11
    Leon,
    Yes, could you remove the copy of my website on your domain at your convenience. An issue with one service provider in Taiwan intermittently blocking namesecure.com IP's or multiple levels of redirects can be solved by him using Google cache functionality. Either of you could have emailed me at the email address at the bottom of the page before posting this to a public forum. I would like to close this issue.

    I have attached a change from a 2 level redirect
    kilocore.com --> dataparallel.org --> www.objectivej.com/hardware/propcluster/index.html
    to a 1 level redirect
    kilocore.com --> www.objectivej.com/hardware/propcluster/index.html


    Leon, "Dec 2008" was when I started the project (not the last update) - you are reading the chronology backwards.
    Thank you
    /michael

    Sent from my blackberry
    800 x 398 - 49K
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2010-09-07 13:21
    I've removed them.
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