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Solar Panel Boe Bot need advise — Parallax Forums

Solar Panel Boe Bot need advise

pangwupangwu Posts: 8
edited 2010-07-26 04:27 in Robotics
Hi everyone,

I got my Boe Bot recently and I wanted to run the Boe Bot (BASIC Stamp 2) with solar panel instead of using battery.

Any advise of -

1) Do I get the solar panel with 6V or 9V?
2) How to connect the solar panel to the Board of Education from Boe Bot?

Thank you everyone.

Pang

Comments

  • pangwupangwu Posts: 8
    edited 2010-07-21 09:13
    I have figured it out that I need 9V solar panel and I found a website (http://www.evilmadscientist.com/article.php/solar) shows the circuit diagram which connecting the solar panel with the battery (in the section named "adding a battery) to activate the load.

    So, my question now is "Can I connect the 9V solar panel to the battery with the reverse blocking diode to the Board of Education?"
  • sylvie369sylvie369 Posts: 1,622
    edited 2010-07-21 11:55
    I don't think this is going to work the way you're hoping that it will.

    I'm not the expert here, but I think you're going to find that your BoEbot requires much more current than the solar panel is capable of delivering. In fact,·one of the servos alone would exceed the panel's current capacity. Several of the panels wired in parallel would deliver more current, but·I never hear anyone doing it that way. In typical solar panel use, the panels are used to keep batteries charged, and the devices run from the batteries. Perhaps that's what you meant, but it sounds like you're hoping to just remove batteries and wire in the solar panels, and I think you're going to be disappointed in the results.

    Perhaps one of the more knowledgeable folks could give a good explanation of why we don't just wire up a couple of the panels in parallel to increase the current, and run things off of that. In my limited understanding, that seems like it would work, but I'm pretty sure there's a good reason that I never see a project like that here.

    Post Edited (sylvie369) : 7/21/2010 1:46:39 PM GMT
  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2010-07-21 13:30
    For the BoeBot to work properly, you need 5 NiMH cells in series to provide 6V to the BoeBot. You would need a solar panel with an output voltage of at least 9V to charge the batteries through the blocking diode. Remember that the specified output voltage of a solar panel is the open-circuit voltage in full sunlight ... when there's no load or very little load on the panel. The output voltage drops quickly when there's a load (like some batteries that need charging) and when there's less than full direct sunlight. You may need a panel with greater than 9V open circuit voltage to ensure charging, particularly with less than full sun. There may be a datasheet that's available for your panel and that would have graphs showing the output voltage under different conditions.

    As Sylvie369 mentioned, when your BoeBot moves, it will draw much more current than the small solar panel can provide. You need the rechargable battery to act as a reservoir to average out the power drain. A Stamp that's running by itself draws only a few milliAmperes. The IR "headlights" draw tens of milliAmps. The IR detectors draw a few mA. The servos draw up to 1/2 A each when starting to move and maybe 1/4 A when moving freely. You can figure out the total average current needed and compare that to the average output of the solar cells to estimate how long the BoeBot can operate with solar power and under what conditions.

    Post Edited (Mike Green) : 7/21/2010 1:41:43 PM GMT
  • sylvie369sylvie369 Posts: 1,622
    edited 2010-07-21 13:51
    Pangwu -

    I notice that the "evilmadscientist" page you linked to gives a pretty decent explanation of why you want something besides just a solar panel wired to your bot, and having read that,·I understand your second post better. I believe that the answer to your question is probably "yes, probably". It depends·to a great degree on what kind of batteries you're trying to use:

    - Can they be charged by the solar panels in the kinds of conditions your bot will be in?
    - When charged, will they deliver the voltage and current necessary to run your bot?
    - What kind of capacity do they have? Will they run your bot for more than a minute or two before they need recharging?

    I think that your next step is to get advice on batteries and the specifics of a charging circuit.
  • pangwupangwu Posts: 8
    edited 2010-07-21 14:29
    Hi everyone,

    Thanks for the reply. I hope that you can understand my English.

    In my case, the total current that Boe Bot can be drawn up to certain amount of current from the panel, so if I get maybe 2 solar panels (from parallax item code - 33001) total of 12V in an open-circuit voltage and connect in series instead of 1 solar panel, would the problem be solved?

    Secondly, if assume that I figure out the suitable type the rechargeable batteries that I need to use, I can wire the solar panel (12V) with the batteries and blocking diode to the Board of Education, do I need to worry anything else?

    Thanks again everyone.

    Pang
  • dandreaedandreae Posts: 1,375
    edited 2010-07-21 14:38
    I built a solar robot with my coworker using 4·"Solar Panel 6V@1W,125x63mm" part# 750-00030.··We also used two 47 farad super caps along with a photo resistor so that it could detect shade and have enough time to find it's way out of the shade.· It takes about 4 minutes to charge up before it's ready to run.· It utilizes the Ping sensor for object avoidance,·I have some pictures listed below.

    Dave

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    Dave Andreae

    Parallax Tech Support
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  • pangwupangwu Posts: 8
    edited 2010-07-21 23:34
    Dave,

    Thanks for the reply and the pictures. This is totally what I want to make. I kind of understand the concept of the solar bot. I am new to this field, so can you help me along with the circuit diagram because I worry that if I wire the wrong thing.

    For the time being, I want to focus on the connecting solar panel to the batteries and board of education. I assumed that 4 solar panel 6V@1W are connected to the batteries, 47 farad super caps and photo resistor in series, is that correct? From the picture that I saw, I can't see where solar panels are connected to.

    I would appreciate if you can help me along with this project.

    Thanks again.

    Pang
  • pangwupangwu Posts: 8
    edited 2010-07-21 23:35
    Dave,

    Thanks for the reply and the pictures. This is totally what I want to make. I kind of understand the concept of the solar bot. I am new to this field, so can you help me along with the circuit diagram because I worry that if I wire the wrong thing.

    For the time being, I want to focus on the connecting solar panel to the batteries and board of education. I assumed that 4 solar panel 6V@1W are connected to the batteries, 47 farad super caps and photo resistor in series, is that correct? From the picture that I saw, I can't see where solar panels are connected to.

    I would appreciate if you can help me along with this project.

    Thanks again.

    Pang
  • dandreaedandreae Posts: 1,375
    edited 2010-07-22 13:33
    What batteries?· :-)· There are no batteries required on my Boe-Bot provided that you have sunshine.· I would be happy to help you.· I started off with 4 panels and two 47 farad super caps.· The solar panels are all in parallel which are charging up the super caps.· Let me know if you have any questions?

    Dave



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    Dave Andreae

    Parallax Tech Support·
  • sylvie369sylvie369 Posts: 1,622
    edited 2010-07-22 13:39
    Interesting. So using supercaps, it is possible to provide enough voltage and current from four small solar panels to run a BoEBot.

    Does it run continuously while in the sunlight? Or does moving the bot eventually discharge the supercaps too much even when the bot is in the sun?
    Does it need direct sunlight?

    Is there some kind of charge controller for the supercaps? How are they simultaneously wired to be charged from the panels and to discharge to the bot's power rails? Are there additional parts? (I assume diodes, at least, right?).

    Since Parallax suddenly has so many solar panels for sale, they should have some brief educational materials for these kinds of things. I can think of several topics offhand that would be very valuable.
  • pangwupangwu Posts: 8
    edited 2010-07-22 15:17
    Hi Dave,

    I thought there were batteries. Anyway, i have drawn my thought of the circuit diagram in the attached file. I'm not sure if is connect to the Vdd or Vss or Vin?

    Pang
    1346 x 876 - 28K
  • dandreaedandreae Posts: 1,375
    edited 2010-07-22 18:12
    sylvie369 said...
    Interesting. So using supercaps, it is possible to provide enough voltage and current from four small solar panels to run a BoEBot.

    Does it run continuously while in the sunlight? Or does moving the bot eventually discharge the supercaps too much even when the bot is in the sun?
    Does it need direct sunlight?

    Is there some kind of charge controller for the supercaps? How are they simultaneously wired to be charged from the panels and to discharge to the bot's power rails? Are there additional parts? (I assume diodes, at least, right?).

    Since Parallax suddenly has so many solar panels for sale, they should have some brief educational materials for these kinds of things. I can think of several topics offhand that would be very valuable.
    The Boe-Bot runs continuously while in the sun.· Actually, the super caps are rated at 2.7v each which comes out to be 5.2v.· We are not using any special circuitry.· You are exactly right!· we are working on Educational solar projects.· I've been using a single solar·panel to power my HomeWork board along with different sensors without using a battery.·

    Dave

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    Dave Andreae

    Parallax Tech Support·
  • dandreaedandreae Posts: 1,375
    edited 2010-07-22 18:14
    pangwu said...
    Hi Dave,

    I thought there were batteries. Anyway, i have drawn my thought of the circuit diagram in the attached file. I'm not sure if is connect to the Vdd or Vss or Vin?

    Pang
    We applied our power to Vdd/Vss.· Your schematic is correct.

    Dave

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    Dave Andreae

    Parallax Tech Support·
  • Matt GillilandMatt Gilliland Posts: 1,406
    edited 2010-07-22 22:08
    Check out Parallax's home page. In the lower right there is a link to "PBASICally Maddie's" (our Marketing Interns blog). Look at the July 15 entry for a short movie on the solar powered boebot that Dave is referring to. No batteries required. The two super-caps are hooked up in series allowing for a 5.2 vdc working voltage. It takes the caps about 2 minutes to fully charge up, and then they do two things:

    1) They provide the short but higher power demands necessary to get the servos moving, and
    2) They provide "emergency power".

    The "emergency power" is used when the boebot isn't watching where he's going, and he finds himself in the shade. Now, a solar-powered robot with no sunlight isn't going very far - nowhere, in fact. The caps provide about 45 seconds of power - which is plenty of time and energy allowing him to retrace his steps (stop, turn-around, and get the heck out of Dodge, so to speak).

    Batteries not included smile.gif

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    Matt Gilliland
  • pangwupangwu Posts: 8
    edited 2010-07-23 01:35
    Hi,

    I just want to show my understanding of solar Boe Bot so far. Please correct me if I am wrong.

    1) In order to make the solar Boe Bot to move, I need to connect as like the circuit diagram where one end is connected to Vdd and another end is connected to Vss.

    Pang
    1346 x 876 - 28K
  • sylvie369sylvie369 Posts: 1,622
    edited 2010-07-23 01:43
    Both the Supercaps and the solar panels are polarized, right? So the + from the solar panel array must go the + side of the first supercap, and the other side of that supercap must go to the + of the other supercap, which connects to the ground from the solar panel array, and the ground of the BoEbot.

    Right?
  • dandreaedandreae Posts: 1,375
    edited 2010-07-23 15:18
    sylvie369 said...

    Both the Supercaps and the solar panels are polarized, right? So the + from the solar panel array must go the + side of the first supercap, and the other side of that supercap must go to the + of the other supercap, which connects to the ground from the solar panel array, and the ground of the BoEbot.

    Right?

    Yes!· You are correct, the negative side of the super cap goes to the positive side of the other super cap.

    Dave

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    Dave Andreae

    Parallax Tech Support·
  • sylvie369sylvie369 Posts: 1,622
    edited 2010-07-23 15:44
    Does that answer your question, Pangwu?

    (I'm breathlessly waiting for you to set this up and hear how it works for you...)
  • Matt GillilandMatt Gilliland Posts: 1,406
    edited 2010-07-25 22:14
    The super-caps that Dave used in his solar boe-bot were rated at 2.7 vdc, each with a capacitance of 47 Farads. The caps are connected just as you described. What effectively happens when you connect caps in series is that the working voltage goes up (in this case doubles, to 5.4 vdc), and the capacitance goes down (in this case, cut in half, to about 28 Farads).

    Power management in solar projects is key, and is especially critical in non-grid tied applications - a solar powered (or charged) robot is an extreme case of the necessity of good power management. Dave's solar boe-bot has three servos (two on the drive-train, and a ping sensor too), not to mention the power required to run the BOE itself. Even with all these power needs, the little guy runs forever (in sunlight) and for quite a long time (in shade) because of the huge amount of energy storage capability in the super-caps.

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    Matt Gilliland
  • pangwupangwu Posts: 8
    edited 2010-07-26 04:27
    Hi everyone,

    I think I got the concept of it now. I will order the parts that I need soon and start on preparing the project.

    I will update the progress as soon as I got my parts.

    Thank again everyone for the helps.

    Pangwu
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