VisualSpin: GUI manager for VGA, TV, LCD

Rayman · 2010-07-19 17:57

I've started working on a development studio to manage GUI assets in a more convenient way...

I have a couple example GUI programs on my website.· But, managing large amounts of forms is inconvienient.
Hopefully, VisualSpin will make it very easy.

I'm starting out targeting XGA but will hope to adapt to TV and LCD later.

Maybe I'll have different styles of GUI at some point, but right now, I'm using the ROM font...

I think you can tell how it's going to work for this screenshot:

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Bill Henning · 2010-07-19 18:04

Looks great, but I could not find it on your site [noparse]:([/noparse]

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Rayman · 2010-07-19 18:07

It'll probably be a few weeks before it even marginally works...

Or, it may never get done...

It's a nice idea though, isn't it?

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Bill Henning · 2010-07-19 18:16

I for one really like the idea.

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jazzed · 2010-07-19 18:18

It's a great idea of course.

I stalled with PropGuiMaker last year on trying to decide whether to use a proprietary GUI designer or a more common interface interface builder which emits xml.

Considering how hard it is to get an html/xml terminal working, I think the proprietary GUI designer is the way to go.

That being said, It would be really nice if there was an easy way to plug in the spin code. I started using the widgets I made for my TvFavorites interface, but those are targeted more for 3D effects on a device having separate video memory.

What will your Spin widget library look like?

Thanks,
--Steve

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Rayman · 2010-07-19 18:20

Bill Henning said...
Looks great, but I could not find it on your site [noparse]:([/noparse]

Ok, I see what you mean now...· Here's an example of the working GUI:
http://www.rayslogic.com/propeller/Programming/ADC.htm

I think I have a "Basic Form Demo" somewhere there too...

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Rayman · 2010-07-19 18:25

jazzed said...

What will your Spin widget library look like?

Here are the form objects that I intend to start with:

"Button";"Text";"Group";"Option";"Check";"Number";"1BitBitmap";"2BitBitmap";

I like the idea of a progress bar though, I'll have to think about that...

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jazzed · 2010-07-19 18:39

That's a good list. Since several of us are obviously interested in this sort of thing it would be great to share ideas and maybe pool resources. Working as a team helps getting things done as long as players are flexible.

I was wondering what an object or a method with all those positioning/look&feel etc "properties" would look like. I'm attaching an object that abstracts "button" ... it's where I was going before I started doing JVM stuff again. It would be easy to have an object per widget (N buttons), but it costs memory with getters/setters. What do you think would be best?

Cheers,
--Steve

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Oldbitcollector (Jeff) · 2010-07-19 18:50

Excellent Rayman! This will be a very useful tool indeed!

OBC

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Rayman · 2010-07-19 19:02

jazzed said...
Since several of us are obviously interested in this sort of thing it would be great to share ideas and maybe pool resources. Working as a team helps getting things done as long as players are flexible.

Steve, I usually keep Windows source code to myself.· But, VisualSpin will generate SPIN code to be compiled by either Propellant or Spin Tool.
People could always add in their own stuff to the generated SPIN code...·

I could add an "owner draw" object to VisualSpin so that people could easily add their own things...

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jazzed · 2010-07-19 19:33

I was hoping you would be able to define the form of the spin code this is generated.
That has general use for a broader audience. It's up to you.

I'm not asking for your source, but it will likely be available the moment you post a binary.

Cheers,
--Steve

Rayman said...

jazzed said...

Since several of us are obviously interested in this sort of thing it would be great to share ideas and maybe pool resources. Working as a team helps getting things done as long as players are flexible.

Steve, I usually keep Windows source code to myself. But, VisualSpin will generate SPIN code to be compiled by either Propellant or Spin Tool.
People could always add in their own stuff to the generated SPIN code...

I could add an "owner draw" object to VisualSpin so that people could easily add their own things...

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Rayman · 2010-07-19 20:50

Just got a PM from a Microsoft employee. That was nice. But now, I'm wondering if perhaps "Visual Spin" is not the best name choice... I think I'm too microscopic for MS lawyers to care about, but you never know, they have a lot of lawyers!

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wjsteele · 2010-07-19 21:03

I don't think they'll have a problem with it, it can't be confused with anything we make, as it targets an entirely different platform.

In fact, Micro Focus has a product called "Visual COBOL" and AutoDesk Corp has "Visual Lisp."

Bill

wjsteele · 2010-07-19 21:06

One thought is to make it extensible, like the old VB OCX style controls. That way, someone could write a new control and use a Text Template to generate the SPIN. We could then start writing OBEX objects for VisualSpin... that would be so cool. Drag a "Servo Control" out and set a few properties, and viola... magic!

Bill

Rayman · 2010-07-19 21:35

Ok, I'll keep some kind of "plug-in" option in mind... But, this is just a baby program right now and it will be a while before it does anything useful. Plus, there's been a lot of infant mortality in my projects...

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Kye · 2010-07-19 22:36

Mmm I am very interested in this Rayman. I've made a 1 cog GUI base VGA object that is just a PITA to program the row and column cordinances in for windows and such.

My GUI driver works differently than your but in less code I can support all the features you have. Mine isn't really that great for text however as it only supports 40x15 characters on screen (internal ROM font at 640x480).

But, I have a real mouse cursor in my object.

. Attached is the code. I'll have it up in the obex once I finish a human interface device driver for PS2 mouses and keyboards that supports event driven programing so that I can make a GUI demo.

·...

Microsoft doesn't own the "Visual" keyword nor does it own "Visual SPIN". I think its a perfect name. If its made using their software I don't think they will care much.

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Nyamekye,

jazzed · 2010-07-19 23:15

Rayman said...
Plus, there's been a lot of infant mortality in my projects...

Teamwork is good for solving this kind of problem as the dog-days of summer wear on.
I would release the source I have, but it seems few here would appreciate such an offering.

@wjsteele, drag and drop an object sounds cool.

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Rayman · 2010-07-19 23:43

Kye said...

But, I have a real mouse cursor in my object. . Attached is the code. I'll have it up in the obex once I finish a human interface device driver for PS2 mouses and keyboards that supports event driven programing so that I can make a GUI demo.

Microsoft doesn't own the "Visual" keyword nor does it own "Visual SPIN". I think its a perfect name. If its made using their software I don't think they will care much.

I'm glad to hear I can use "Visual Spin" and not get in trouble because I really like it [noparse]:)[/noparse]· My current GUI is also a knock-off of the old VBDOS look...·· But, maybe that's not too obvious.

Kye, I'll have to check out your code, but I think by "real" you mean it draws a graphical cursor?· Is this all in one cog?· Chip's XGA driver does include a "real" mouse driver, but that uses an extra cog.· For my apps, with XGA already using 2 cogs and mouse using one and keyboard using one, I didn't want to use a cog just to do the mouse...· If you have VGA and mouse all in one cog, that's definitely worth a look.· But, I really did pick XGA as a balance between the amount of text I can show and cog usage.

BTW:· I have a "real" real mouse showcased in my chess program that·is white with a·black border.· This turns out to be very difficult to do.· That code is an absolute mess, but I hope to clean it up and add it to Visual Spin for those that can affort to lose a cog for a nice cursor...

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Rayman · 2010-07-19 23:57

jazzed said...

Teamwork is good for solving this kind of problem as the dog-days of summer wear on.
I would release the source I have, but it seems few here would appreciate such an offering.

jazzed,
Just as an aside, I think your kind of GUI is also very interesting, where, If I understand it, the Prop talks to a PC running the GUI over a serial link...

I've also thought it would be neat to run a Javascript GUI over a web enabled Prop...

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jazzed · 2010-07-20 00:16

Rayman that's another project but certaily related. I started doing this VisualSpin thing last year (PropGuiMaker) and put it aside for other things like the JVM which will allow 128K+ Java programs to run on Propeller. GUI maker is just part of the "solution."Here's a sample image:

attachment.php?attachmentid=61338

Cheers.
--Steve

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Kye · 2010-07-20 00:18

Here's a small tester program i've been using to develope my HID code. The HID driver is not done however. I have to figure out the scan code mappings for the keyboard still.

The code is demo board compatible.

The HID driver + VGA driver use two cogs in total. The new thing about the HID driver (its a combo PS2 Mouse and keyboard driver) is that it stores mouse and keyboard events in queues. This makes doing GUI stuff easy.

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Nyamekye,

Post Edited (Kye) : 7/20/2010 12:27:41 AM GMT

Rayman · 2010-07-20 13:00

I would very much like a combo keyboard&mouse driver. I've seen one in the past, but it sounded it wasn't proven to be 100%...

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Bill Henning · 2010-07-20 14:13

I am greedy [noparse]:)[/noparse]

I'd like to see a combo keyboard, mouse and serial driver!

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Kye · 2010-07-20 15:11

I found alot of bugs in the parallax drivers. There is are some reasons why they don't work with every keyboard and mouse. I don't know if mine work with every keyboard or mouse either but I've made my code alot more robust thatn the parallax drivers.

@Bill Henning - You can add that if you want to your own version. The serial throughput would be horrible.

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Nyamekye,

Bill Henning · 2010-07-20 15:57

Kye,

That is on my long TODO list [noparse]:)[/noparse]

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wjsteele · 2010-07-20 18:52

You know, I've been thinking more and more about this. Ray, this would be a great project to complete and use in the education market. Think of it... Parallax could give (sell) every student a Prop Demo Board, or something like the Propeller Platform!!! They could then build a quick and easy course around taking this step by step through the most advanced scenerios.

I think "VisualSpin" should also include a simple "PASM Block" control that includes ASM that can be called directly. Maybe based on "trigger" events, like your Button being pressed, etc.

This takes me back... way back.

Bill

Kye · 2010-07-20 19:32

@wjsteele - That's what I've been writting all my drivers for.

However, I have not the time to go market with my driver software. Sometimes I wish I could get paid what I've written...

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wjsteele · 2010-07-20 19:58

It kind of reminds me of Hanno's 12 Blocks... but is closer to "real" programming than to the lego style builder he has. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there is anything wrong with 12 Blocks, not by any stretch, but nothing beats a good old graphical UI desginer to get quick code out the door.

Invent-O-Doc · 2010-07-20 22:10

Nice concept! Could a UI like this fit in with the Prop II built in development environment? (or do we want to stick to a serial terminal?)

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New Market, MD, USA

Rayman · 2010-07-21 00:39

Just to clarify... The Prop will show these forms with it's VGA connector. It runs independent of a PC. This PC software is just to help write the SPIN code...

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wjsteele · 2010-07-21 02:07

I think it should be adapted to show on VGA or TV... just flip a switch and all the "objects" will know.

Bill

VisualSpin: GUI manager for VGA, TV, LCD

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