I really don't think the Propeller Forum should be split up into Beginner and Advanced, etc. at least not at this time. I consider myself to be among the vast unwashed crowd of newbies, yet I read and try to understand what's going on with the Propeller in areas I know nothing about and at the same time I try to answer newbie questions when I can. And I really don't have any problem skipping over the deep conversations all you gurus have over PASM, SPI, R2D2 and whatnot. Also, there has been at least one time when my ignorant, idiotic way of doing things has revealed bugs in "established" OBEX code - because no experienced user in his or her right mind would ever do things the way I sometimes do them, so maybe sometimes newbies expose problems the Wise Men, blinded by their own brilliance, never see. Unless and until the flow of traffic on the forum becomes unmanageable, I really think things are very good as they are.
As for popularizing the Propeller, if you dudes are all so on fire to make that happen, why don't you get together and start a new magazine that highlights how to build cool things - you know, like one of the those Make magazines or whatever. And try to make it fun and not nerdy. Like, you need to show how to make giant Tesla coils, metal detectors for hunting meteorites in your own back yard, Christmas light or stage light dramatic effects, Halloween stuff, science fair gizmos, spy gear, hovercraft, aquarium stuff, feed your dog while on vacation, talk to your potted plants when you're not at home to soothe their sorrows, you name it. Oh, and by the way, except for the occasional article submitted by Leon to show you how to make automatic kitty litter cleaners with XMOS and PICs, your magazine will be predominantly Propeller and/or Basic Stamp, with brilliant ads for PropBlades, mojoBoards or whatever it is you guys sell.
I've also suggested you create programs that turn on college kids, who work in labs with little money and time, so they can make their own stuff on the fly.
So, if it's really causing you an ulcer, stop whining and moaning about how you'd wish people would be more interested in the Prop and just do something about it.
No.. fracturing the forum into beginner and advanced etc is a bad idea..
We did a little forum fracturing experiment a couple months ago when we moved the retro video driver stuff
from the Hydra forum into a forum on Savage Circuits. This was done to help Chris get some traffic to that
forum, but I'm not sure we've dumped enough water on it to get it growing yet. So far the results have
been less than desired with very few people actually knowing what we are doing off in that corner, but I digress..
Mixing the newbies and advanced people allow those who aren't as experienced to mingle quietly into the group without
feeling like they are "newbies" -- It creates a comfort zone for new users. Personally I love having excited new users
in the mix, because they "don't know the rules." They have no idea what the boundaries are, and as a result will ask
some off the wall question about something that the rest of us knew you couldn't do. As a result it sparks
conversation and sometimes even a way to break the barrier.
Also, some like me have a depth of knowledge is certain areas, and in others are a newbie.
So depending on the question I might be an expert, or I might be a newbie...
I disagree. Multiplication is very important and if you don't train one person in microcontrollers because you are afraid of messy forums then that one person can't train a mess of other people.
On another topic: There is a deficiency in the news. I go to google every day, I click on news. In the empty box I put in "Arduino" and then I put in "Microchip". There are always news stories. I put in "Parallax Propeller" and there aren't news stories. Why is that? I'm sure everybody is busy but doesn't anybody like talking to the Press?
Hey everyone!
Ken said I may find some marketing-minded people in this forum thread, because I didn't get much of a response in the Sandbox.
Here's a link to my thread in the Sandbox where I asked for help spreading Parallax's name around: http://forums.parallax.com/forums/default.aspx?f=15&m=469164
Basically, I was hoping that anyone with any hardware and software knowledge of different Parallax products (including the Propeller) could go to (specifically) Wikipedia and edit any of the topics surrounding Parallax Inc (the link to that page is in my signature below). We don't even have a biography page with published sources about Chip Gracey, and the Boe Bot page almost got deleted because of lack of substance and references citing the product. What we need for marketing is more visibility. Favorite Parallax Inc videos on your Youtube Channels, friend Parallax on Facebook, Follow on Twitter (and I thank you for being so active already), etc!!
Parallax is VERY busy right now (trust me, it's crazy around here!) [noparse]:)[/noparse] We have new machines, new products being released.....
The forum is such a valuable source of feedback and, as a temporary intern, I was really excited to see so many people wanting to get the word out about the Propeller!
So if you have a couple minutes (I know, we're all very busy!)... Help would be greatly appreciated!
I know this answer doesn't nearly cover the scope of what is needed for when Parallax releases the Prop 2 in a more professional website, but these are a few things we could use if you have a couple minutes of spare time.
And keep mentioning Parallax to your friends!
Have a great day!
Maddie the Intern
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My BASIC Stamp Beginner's Blog (with extras, Parallax Inc updates, etc): pbasicallymaddie.blogspot.com
two things about visibility located at the parallax site:
If you come from the main homepage and click on propeller no link to the Propeller Video Links.
And at the video links I'm missing the OUTSTANDING Demo "turbulence"
Of course Linus Akesson is a real genius that developed some special tricks including data-compression to do this but I think it should be added in the Propeller-Video-Section
Seems to me, "more professional" isn't quite right. What exists now is very professional. What needs to exist is just a different sort of professional.
I don’t know if the topic is still prop advocacy but… I take one of my propeller projects like this one (sidnancy.posterous.com/) to local Maker Faire type events or hacker events, I just got back from Next Hope in NYC, and I really push the prop. Since there are fairly techie attendees at these events I can push the parallel processing angle and how the design is more straightforward due to the unique features of the prop. I’d say half of the people I talk to have never heard of the propeller but either own or at least know about the arduino.
A small heads up to your IT staff. You should consider adding either a 'CNAME' or an 'A' record for "parallax.com" to your DNS zone. Currently it comes up with a DNS error if I forget the "www".
@potatohead- very good point- a different type of professional. I really like these forums cause they're giving me some great ideas and perspectives.
@Martin Hodge and StefanL38- I'm forwarding your ideas to our website manager. Thanks!
Keep up the "playing Marketing Department"!
Maddie the Intern :]
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My BASIC Stamp Beginner's Blog (with extras, Parallax Inc updates, etc): pbasicallymaddie.blogspot.com
while I was mowing the gras in the garden I got an idea how to introduce people to the propeller:
A big VGA-screen showing the turbulence demo as the eye-catcher.
Then on the table a DIP40-propeller in a visible acrylglas cube.
From each IO-PIN runs away a copper-wire with transparent isolation to make clear everything (the mouse, the keyboard, the SD-card) is connected to nothing else than the prop.
Then on the prop are running different kinds of functionalities:
- Playing music from an SD-card
- or receiving music from a radio station
- the visitors can play PONG on a TV-screen, with two transparent mounted ANALOG joysticks
(showing how to to ADC on the propeller. I think if the capacitors and resistors are soldered DIRECTLY to the IO-pins
with an 8 bit resolution it should work properly maybe even 10 or 12 bits.
- some small steppermotors each with individual speed with a coloured wheel can be controlled by the visitors through a light or temperature-sensor
- or even crazier use some LEDs as inputdevices lighting up some RGB-LEDs
or LEDs mounted on a wheel power is transferred inductive through coils by PWM
- or just connect 3, 5 or 8 TV-screens to play a ultra-wide PONG over all these screens, while a prop-voice comments on the bounces
I haven't counted how much cogs each functionality will need. The philosphy is just do a lot of different things in parallel to show the capapilities of the propeller
through visual or audial things and user-interaction.
@K2- thank you, and·I'm enjoying seeing everyone's avatar's and signatures, like your Monty Python quote and potatohead's avatar.
@StefanL38- I think you've got it. Many people today who are NOT interested in learning to program ARE eventually attracted to the microcontroller world by the things others have done with the Propeller and/or BASIC Stamp- especially the interactive projects or ones with a lot of LEDs!
After showing some friends of mine the Boe-Bot and how it navigates with whiskers, they haven't stopped asking questions about it!
I directed them to Parallax's links to customer projects. Stressing visual, audio, and interactive applications makes a huge difference, at least with who I talk to.
And these forums prove and reinforce the concept: "If (s)he can do it, I can too," making venturing into the programming world much easier.
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My BASIC Stamp Beginner's Blog (with extras, Parallax Inc updates, etc): pbasicallymaddie.blogspot.com
And then the visitors are invited: "make the robot BLINK, TALK drive and "SPIN" like you want him to
Let them drag and drop Blocks from 12Blocks together and filling in parameters as they like it.
(Maybe it makes sense if Hanno creates a special version of 12Blocks that keeps the basic functionality
of the robots firmware working)
Hey Hanno ! Or even better ! A beginners mode for 12Blocks.
How about an option for 12Blocks that any part of the blocks can be LOCKED
so unexperienced users can't mess up the basic structure and just can change parameters like
drive 10 inches forward
turn 90 degrees left
blink red LED at 5Hz
create beep with 2000Hz, 1 second long
if distance is lower than 2 inches play wav-file "get out of my way!"
Until Hanno has implemented this feature. In the meantime printed templates of how the blocks have to be putted together can put next to the programming-terminal
that beginners can drag and drop the blocks as shown on the templates.
Last year I tried to make robots with a group a kids in France.
Used the Propeller Platform (cheaper and easy to use) or the PE kit rather than the Demoboard (needed with the version of 12blocks I tested )
12 blocks is a good approach (thanks Hanno for this nice tool) if we have a beginner version of 12 blocks with very simple objects to drive things like LEDS, servos, DC motors , Ir detectors... it will be better.
If somebody can create hardware blocks (a bit like Lego mindstorms : Irdetectors , motors ...) working on a sort of Propeller platform you may have something attractive for kids.
I have also used Arduino with this group and what i like mostly is : the easy to use Arduino boards and shields ,the completed and well described projects (with photos on Instructurable or elsewhere) and the pins for analog input on the board (make things a lot easier).
Maddie the Intern said...
After showing some friends of mine the Boe-Bot and how it navigates with whiskers, they haven't stopped asking questions about it!
I see this as something holding the Propeller back. There are no Propeller kits that are as beginner-friendly as the "What's a Microcontroller" and "Robotics with the Boe-Bot" BS2 kits.
Comments
As for popularizing the Propeller, if you dudes are all so on fire to make that happen, why don't you get together and start a new magazine that highlights how to build cool things - you know, like one of the those Make magazines or whatever. And try to make it fun and not nerdy. Like, you need to show how to make giant Tesla coils, metal detectors for hunting meteorites in your own back yard, Christmas light or stage light dramatic effects, Halloween stuff, science fair gizmos, spy gear, hovercraft, aquarium stuff, feed your dog while on vacation, talk to your potted plants when you're not at home to soothe their sorrows, you name it. Oh, and by the way, except for the occasional article submitted by Leon to show you how to make automatic kitty litter cleaners with XMOS and PICs, your magazine will be predominantly Propeller and/or Basic Stamp, with brilliant ads for PropBlades, mojoBoards or whatever it is you guys sell.
I've also suggested you create programs that turn on college kids, who work in labs with little money and time, so they can make their own stuff on the fly.
So, if it's really causing you an ulcer, stop whining and moaning about how you'd wish people would be more interested in the Prop and just do something about it.
I'm guilty of spending too much time here and too little time developing Propeller applications. Rigor! - that's what we need.
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"Let's not bicker and argue about who killed who."
We did a little forum fracturing experiment a couple months ago when we moved the retro video driver stuff
from the Hydra forum into a forum on Savage Circuits. This was done to help Chris get some traffic to that
forum, but I'm not sure we've dumped enough water on it to get it growing yet. So far the results have
been less than desired with very few people actually knowing what we are doing off in that corner, but I digress..
Mixing the newbies and advanced people allow those who aren't as experienced to mingle quietly into the group without
feeling like they are "newbies" -- It creates a comfort zone for new users. Personally I love having excited new users
in the mix, because they "don't know the rules." They have no idea what the boundaries are, and as a result will ask
some off the wall question about something that the rest of us knew you couldn't do. As a result it sparks
conversation and sometimes even a way to break the barrier.
Also, some like me have a depth of knowledge is certain areas, and in others are a newbie.
So depending on the question I might be an expert, or I might be a newbie...
OBC
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Propeller Feature Projects: PropellerPowered.com
Visit the: PROPELLERPOWERED SIG forum kindly hosted by Savage Circuits.
I disagree. Multiplication is very important and if you don't train one person in microcontrollers because you are afraid of messy forums then that one person can't train a mess of other people.
On another topic: There is a deficiency in the news. I go to google every day, I click on news. In the empty box I put in "Arduino" and then I put in "Microchip". There are always news stories. I put in "Parallax Propeller" and there aren't news stories. Why is that? I'm sure everybody is busy but doesn't anybody like talking to the Press?
Chuck
Ken said I may find some marketing-minded people in this forum thread, because I didn't get much of a response in the Sandbox.
Here's a link to my thread in the Sandbox where I asked for help spreading Parallax's name around: http://forums.parallax.com/forums/default.aspx?f=15&m=469164
Basically, I was hoping that anyone with any hardware and software knowledge of different Parallax products (including the Propeller) could go to (specifically) Wikipedia and edit any of the topics surrounding Parallax Inc (the link to that page is in my signature below). We don't even have a biography page with published sources about Chip Gracey, and the Boe Bot page almost got deleted because of lack of substance and references citing the product. What we need for marketing is more visibility. Favorite Parallax Inc videos on your Youtube Channels, friend Parallax on Facebook, Follow on Twitter (and I thank you for being so active already), etc!!
Parallax is VERY busy right now (trust me, it's crazy around here!) [noparse]:)[/noparse] We have new machines, new products being released.....
The forum is such a valuable source of feedback and, as a temporary intern, I was really excited to see so many people wanting to get the word out about the Propeller!
So if you have a couple minutes (I know, we're all very busy!)... Help would be greatly appreciated!
I know this answer doesn't nearly cover the scope of what is needed for when Parallax releases the Prop 2 in a more professional website, but these are a few things we could use if you have a couple minutes of spare time.
And keep mentioning Parallax to your friends!
Have a great day!
Maddie the Intern
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
My BASIC Stamp Beginner's Blog (with extras, Parallax Inc updates, etc): pbasicallymaddie.blogspot.com
Parallax Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax,_Inc._(company)
Parallax Inc.'s Flickr Page: http://www.flickr.com/photos/parallax_inc_photos/
Parallax Inc.'s·Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/ParallaxInc
·
two things about visibility located at the parallax site:
If you come from the main homepage and click on propeller no link to the Propeller Video Links.
And at the video links I'm missing the OUTSTANDING Demo "turbulence"
Of course Linus Akesson is a real genius that developed some special tricks including data-compression to do this but I think it should be added in the Propeller-Video-Section
best regards
Stefan
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Propeller Wiki: Share the coolness!
8x8 color 80 Column NTSC Text Object
Wondering how to set tile colors in the graphics_demo.spin?
Safety Tip: Life is as good as YOU think it is!
@Martin Hodge and StefanL38- I'm forwarding your ideas to our website manager. Thanks!
Keep up the "playing Marketing Department"!
Maddie the Intern :]
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
My BASIC Stamp Beginner's Blog (with extras, Parallax Inc updates, etc): pbasicallymaddie.blogspot.com
Parallax Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax,_Inc._(company)
Parallax Inc.'s Flickr Page: http://www.flickr.com/photos/parallax_inc_photos/
Parallax Inc.'s·Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/ParallaxInc
·
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"Let's not bicker and argue about who killed who."
A big VGA-screen showing the turbulence demo as the eye-catcher.
Then on the table a DIP40-propeller in a visible acrylglas cube.
From each IO-PIN runs away a copper-wire with transparent isolation to make clear everything (the mouse, the keyboard, the SD-card) is connected to nothing else than the prop.
Then on the prop are running different kinds of functionalities:
- Playing music from an SD-card
- or receiving music from a radio station
- the visitors can play PONG on a TV-screen, with two transparent mounted ANALOG joysticks
(showing how to to ADC on the propeller. I think if the capacitors and resistors are soldered DIRECTLY to the IO-pins
with an 8 bit resolution it should work properly maybe even 10 or 12 bits.
- some small steppermotors each with individual speed with a coloured wheel can be controlled by the visitors through a light or temperature-sensor
- or even crazier use some LEDs as inputdevices lighting up some RGB-LEDs
or LEDs mounted on a wheel power is transferred inductive through coils by PWM
- or just connect 3, 5 or 8 TV-screens to play a ultra-wide PONG over all these screens, while a prop-voice comments on the bounces
I haven't counted how much cogs each functionality will need. The philosphy is just do a lot of different things in parallel to show the capapilities of the propeller
through visual or audial things and user-interaction.
best regards
Stefan
@StefanL38- I think you've got it. Many people today who are NOT interested in learning to program ARE eventually attracted to the microcontroller world by the things others have done with the Propeller and/or BASIC Stamp- especially the interactive projects or ones with a lot of LEDs!
After showing some friends of mine the Boe-Bot and how it navigates with whiskers, they haven't stopped asking questions about it!
I directed them to Parallax's links to customer projects. Stressing visual, audio, and interactive applications makes a huge difference, at least with who I talk to.
And these forums prove and reinforce the concept: "If (s)he can do it, I can too," making venturing into the programming world much easier.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
My BASIC Stamp Beginner's Blog (with extras, Parallax Inc updates, etc): pbasicallymaddie.blogspot.com
Parallax Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax,_Inc._(company)
Parallax Inc.'s Flickr Page: http://www.flickr.com/photos/parallax_inc_photos/
Parallax Inc.'s·Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/ParallaxInc
·
how about using 12Blocks?
assemble a robot with BIG LEDs and a loudspeaker.
And then the visitors are invited: "make the robot BLINK, TALK drive and "SPIN" like you want him to
Let them drag and drop Blocks from 12Blocks together and filling in parameters as they like it.
(Maybe it makes sense if Hanno creates a special version of 12Blocks that keeps the basic functionality
of the robots firmware working)
Hey Hanno ! Or even better ! A beginners mode for 12Blocks.
How about an option for 12Blocks that any part of the blocks can be LOCKED
so unexperienced users can't mess up the basic structure and just can change parameters like
drive 10 inches forward
turn 90 degrees left
blink red LED at 5Hz
create beep with 2000Hz, 1 second long
if distance is lower than 2 inches play wav-file "get out of my way!"
Until Hanno has implemented this feature. In the meantime printed templates of how the blocks have to be putted together can put next to the programming-terminal
that beginners can drag and drop the blocks as shown on the templates.
best regards
Stefan
Last year I tried to make robots with a group a kids in France.
Used the Propeller Platform (cheaper and easy to use) or the PE kit rather than the Demoboard (needed with the version of 12blocks I tested )
12 blocks is a good approach (thanks Hanno for this nice tool) if we have a beginner version of 12 blocks with very simple objects to drive things like LEDS, servos, DC motors , Ir detectors... it will be better.
If somebody can create hardware blocks (a bit like Lego mindstorms : Irdetectors , motors ...) working on a sort of Propeller platform you may have something attractive for kids.
I have also used Arduino with this group and what i like mostly is : the easy to use Arduino boards and shields ,the completed and well described projects (with photos on Instructurable or elsewhere) and the pins for analog input on the board (make things a lot easier).
Jean Paul
cats92.free.fr
I see this as something holding the Propeller back. There are no Propeller kits that are as beginner-friendly as the "What's a Microcontroller" and "Robotics with the Boe-Bot" BS2 kits.