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Starwars Force Trainer and the Propeller video — Parallax Forums

Starwars Force Trainer and the Propeller video

Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
edited 2010-07-30 23:04 in Propeller 1
I finally got unpacked over the holiday weekend and setup a camera to shoot a video of the Farce? Trainer.

The Starwars Force Trainer and the Propeller: A midnight UPEW collaboration.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCTnbz47WzI

OBC

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Comments

  • johnnycarlosjohnnycarlos Posts: 44
    edited 2010-07-06 03:51
    The Force is weak with this one [noparse]:)[/noparse]

    Good job on the project! I'm really impressed.

    John
  • DynamoBenDynamoBen Posts: 366
    edited 2010-07-06 04:07
    I have some things for you to try. I assume this force trainer is a head mounted, which means they might be doing a pseudo EEG.

    To test this theory close your eyes, and don't move them. When you close your eyes your "normal" awake brainwaves change to an alpha waves.
    Now with your eyes open try starring at stationary object without talking. This brings back normal awake brainwaves but minimizes the electrical interference when your eyes move.
    Finally move your eyes back and forth, this maximizes the electrical interferences from your eye muscles.

    These tests should give you some sense on whether they are doing anything legit with your brainwaves.
  • ElectricAyeElectricAye Posts: 4,561
    edited 2010-07-06 04:51
    DynamoBen said...
    ....

    These tests should give you some sense on whether they are doing anything legit with your brainwaves.

    I was thinking maybe try putting a paper towel (dampened with a little water with a pinch of salt dissolved in it) up against the sensor and see if that affects anything. I'd be surprised if this thing can pick up actual brain waves but maybe it simply monitors skin resistance??? I'm just guessing, of course.

    smile.gif
  • DynamoBenDynamoBen Posts: 366
    edited 2010-07-06 05:17
    ElectricAye said...
    I'd be surprised if this thing can pick up actual brain waves but maybe it simply monitors skin resistance??? I'm just guessing, of course.

    I wouldn't be so sure, gathering EEG data isn't all that difficult. Its just a matter of amplifying the electrical signals that already exist at the scalp with some analog to digital converters. How do I know? I work for a company that makes EEG amplifiers and software. Check out the OpenEEG project, they have a $20 amp that does just that.

    openeeg.sourceforge.net
  • P!-RoP!-Ro Posts: 1,189
    edited 2010-07-06 05:40
    Could you possibly post your code? I'd love to see how you made the graphics show your sensor data.

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  • ElectricAyeElectricAye Posts: 4,561
    edited 2010-07-06 12:53
    DynamoBen said...
    ElectricAye said...
    I'd be surprised if this thing can pick up actual brain waves but maybe it simply monitors skin resistance??? I'm just guessing, of course.

    I wouldn't be so sure, gathering EEG data isn't all that difficult. Its just a matter of amplifying the electrical signals that already exist at the scalp with some analog to digital converters. ...

    That's very interesting. I would have guessed that changes in skin resistance would render a "dry" sensor almost useless when looking at brain signals. But, as I said earlier, I was just guessing. Thanks for showing me what's possible with your link. Still, however, I'm puzzled why skin resistance doesn't swamp the sensor - unless, that is, you employ another sensor or two to measure skin resistance and you somehow filter out its effects???

    thanks,
    Mark
  • DynamoBenDynamoBen Posts: 366
    edited 2010-07-06 14:33
    ElectricAye said...

    That's very interesting. I would have guessed that changes in skin resistance would render a "dry" sensor almost useless when looking at brain signals. But, as I said earlier, I was just guessing. Thanks for showing me what's possible with your link. Still, however, I'm puzzled why skin resistance doesn't swamp the sensor - unless, that is, you employ another sensor or two to measure skin resistance and you somehow filter out its effects???

    You are right in that you need a good connection for a proper EEG and typically gel is used to keep the resistance under 10K. I'm not sure how much resistance there is with a dry contact and if the brainwaves (which are in microvolts) can over come it. With all that being said I know of other toys that do actually read brainwaves so its not all that unusual.
  • GrampsGramps Posts: 117
    edited 2010-07-06 14:58
    What other toys read brainwaves?






    Gramps

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  • DaveJensonDaveJenson Posts: 375
    edited 2010-07-06 15:31
  • RinksCustomsRinksCustoms Posts: 531
    edited 2010-07-06 15:35
    that one toy that uses fans and a head set to manuver a ping pong ball around a circular course, they had a tv commercial for it.

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  • DynamoBenDynamoBen Posts: 366
    edited 2010-07-06 15:42
    DaveJenson said...
    Check out:
    http://www.neurosky.com/

    That's the one I was thinking of, also look here:

    ericmika.com/itp/brain-hack
  • Duane DegnDuane Degn Posts: 10,588
    edited 2010-07-30 22:28
    DynamoBen, I followed the link you gave (thanks) and decided to purchase the Mindflex Game.

    OBC, Have you made any further progress with your Force Trainer?· Thanks for posting the video.· I liked it.

    The brain-hack website said many of these toys use the same electronics (Mindset).· Neurosky offers free development tools for their Mindset.· Reading through the communication protocol1 I was reminded of Dynamixel's AX12+ protocol (I haven't read a lot of communication protocols).· I figure I'll try to get a Prop to talk with the Mindset electronics in Mindflex.· Is anyone else working on this?· I don't want to reinvent the wheel.· I think I'll start with the AX12+ object as see if I can modify it for Mindset communication.

    I figured out a way to justify this as a business expense.· I'll have my employees wear it to I can monitor their concentration.·· I'll also tell them not to think of me as their "Boss" but as their "Big Brother."2

    I am joking about making employees wear it, though I might ask them to try it sometime so see if there is in correlation between mistakes they make and any of the brain information·the·Mindset outputs.

    If I make future posts about my project, I'll start a different thread.

    I've thought about this (OBC's) project a lot and I'm excited to try my own version.

    Duane

    Footnotes:

    1.· I've attached the Mindset communication protocol pdf.· While it's available for free, you have jump through a lot hoops to download it.· You also have download a the tool set; you can't just download the protocol.

    2.· I read George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-four so I could understand all the references made to it.· Talk about a depressing book.· I'm not big on reading about people being tortured.
  • DynamoBenDynamoBen Posts: 366
    edited 2010-07-30 22:45
    Duane Degn said...

    ...though I might ask them to try it sometime so see if there is in correlation between mistakes they make and any of the brain information the Mindset outputs.

    Good luck on this. This type of device doesn't read brainwaves its just shows activity.
  • natpienatpie Posts: 35
    edited 2010-07-30 22:55
    I couldn't help but notice, is that the Radio Shack Hummer game on the shelf in the video? The one containing Jeri Ellsworth's wonderful C64 on a chip? galaxy22.dyndns.org/dtv/ I wish those were still available.
  • localrogerlocalroger Posts: 3,452
    edited 2010-07-30 23:04
    I have a Neurosky Mindset and have written a VB app to collect the data, which include the raw data. The device is definitely trying to do EEG; it appears to be doing FFT on one-second samples to provide six frequency band outputs. In addition there are a couple of sketchier synthetic outputs which Neurosky provides that might be easier to use, but unlike the brainwave outputs your get "valid" outputs for those if you put the set on your knee (an experiment suggested to me by a doctor friend who was curious about it).

    There is a lot of noise from the facial muscles and the dry contacts and there is only one channel, where many more are used simultaneously in real EEG diagnosis/therapy.

    Toys like the force trainer use the same technology, but their chips are permanently reprogrammed to only output the data used by the toy -- generally the sketchy synthetic channels Neurosky provide for which they don't document the generative algorithm.
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