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1st Diptrace Project attempt! Thank you Nick — Parallax Forums

1st Diptrace Project attempt! Thank you Nick

Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
edited 2010-07-08 21:02 in General Discussion
So I'm working on some 1/3 scale arcade machines for UPENE.

I didn't want to dissect NES controllers again, hence the question a couple days ago.
Thanks to a couple good answers, I've got some 4021's (.25c from Hong Kong on their way)

I thought this would be a good opportunity to whip out some Diptrace time with this simple circuit.
(Yes, I'm sure I could zap this up with a Radio shack perf board in the time I spent already, but..)

For some reason I couldn't get nice .1 holes where I wanted them, so I wound up using a second resistor array
in my schematic. I set the autoroute to single layer so I could do some "pcb-at-home" experiments.

Here's the result. Anyone see any glaring errors before I go to ironing this to some copper clad?

Thanks!
OBC

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Comments

  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2010-07-04 04:24
    Supply and ground tracks should be wider.

    There is no decoupling capacitor.

    You have one right angle track, and an acute angle.

    You might have problems with some of the pads, I'd make them bigger. I use oval pads on DILs with home-made PCBs.

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    Post Edited (Leon) : 7/4/2010 4:32:16 AM GMT
  • Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
    edited 2010-07-04 05:09
    Thanks Leon,

    I've already made changes including rewiring the 9pin connector for atari compatibility.

    OBC

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  • Roy ElthamRoy Eltham Posts: 3,000
    edited 2010-07-04 07:23
    As a learning exercise I have recreated your pcb with a similar component layout, but a different trace routing.
    I believe this fits the rules that I am aware of for pcb trace routing. I used ExpressPCB, since it was free.
    This is the first time I have done this kind of thing. So if have a moment to let me know what I did wrong, that would be great.

    Also, since R1 is a resister block I assumed I could route through it differently than you did and it would be the same end result.

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  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2010-07-04 08:16
    It isn't a good idea to run supply and ground tracks round the board like that. They should be routed first, as parallel tracks. With single-sided boards, don't be afraid of a couple of wire links if they will give you much more direct connections and a tidier layout.

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  • william chanwilliam chan Posts: 1,326
    edited 2010-07-04 09:00
    Is Diptrace better than Eagle?

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  • ColeyColey Posts: 1,112
    edited 2010-07-04 09:01
    @Leon,

    I've noticed that you use wire links on your boards, perhaps you could give us an example of how you would do this.

    Regards,

    Coley

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  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2010-07-04 09:41
    I actually design the board as a two-layer board, minimising the tracks/links on the top layer, and making them straight if possible. I route them manually, of course.

    I use thin tinned copper wire for the links, it's flexible so I can "stitch" several connections together for complex boards with the links close to each other. I then cut them on the underside.

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    Leon Heller
    Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
  • ColeyColey Posts: 1,112
    edited 2010-07-04 10:10
    OK, you mean like this......

    (red wires signify links)

    attachment.php?attachmentid=71659

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  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2010-07-04 12:17
    Yes, that's the idea. I'd probably add one or two more, especially for a high-speed design.

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  • ColeyColey Posts: 1,112
    edited 2010-07-04 13:11
    Well I'd hardly class a joystick interface as high speed but why would you add more links if it were?

    Perhaps you can show us what you mean in a layout??

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  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2010-07-04 13:23
    To shorten the connections, reducing EMC problems which can be exacerbated by long tracks meandering about the board. It won't matter with that design, the chip used is a very slow device.

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    Leon Heller
    Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM

    Post Edited (Leon) : 7/4/2010 1:28:31 PM GMT
  • Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
    edited 2010-07-04 18:05
    Haven't figured out how to do flood fill (ground) but I'm getting closer with my single layer design.
    (Time to watch Nick's videos again)

    Edit: Flood-fill might not be a good idea being that this design is going to be used for a single sided home pcb fab. Thoughts?
    I know; I'm like a proud papa of a really ugly baby, but I'm hoping the end result works. [noparse]:)[/noparse]


    OBC

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    Post Edited (Oldbitcollector) : 7/4/2010 6:16:51 PM GMT
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  • Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
    edited 2010-07-04 18:20
    ARG! Just noticed that my 9pin connected is rotated the wrong direction... duh..

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    Post Edited (Oldbitcollector) : 7/4/2010 6:39:22 PM GMT
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  • zappmanzappman Posts: 418
    edited 2010-07-04 18:42
    Hi OBC,

    I suggest you post your schematic, along with the PCB layout. Sometimes simple changes in the schematic can greatly simplify the layout of a board. I am guessing that R1 is a resistor pack with 1 side of each resistor connected together (to GND)? If this is true it does not matter what resistor is used for which signal, and swapping some of them would simplify the layout of your board.

    Regards,

    zappman

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  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2010-07-04 19:24
    I often use copper pour on my single-sided home-made PCBs. It cuts down on etchant usage, apart from improved grounding.

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  • FlyingFishFingerFlyingFishFinger Posts: 461
    edited 2010-07-07 04:17
    You can do a flood fill with the button labelled "Place Copper Pour". It's a blue button with a trace through it on the top right. Once you lay it you can choose what net you want to connect it to.

    R

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  • WBA ConsultingWBA Consulting Posts: 2,935
    edited 2010-07-08 06:31
    OBC, I like to look at other DipTrace projects to see how things are done ("get in and poke around" method of learning is best for me). GadgetGangster has a few projects with DipTrace files that have been rather helpful to me (along with Nick's tutorials).

    I also just discovered today that Parallax has several DipTrace project files on the Open-Source Hardware Designs page, including the Propstick USB.

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  • WBA ConsultingWBA Consulting Posts: 2,935
    edited 2010-07-08 06:37
    Oh, and had I known at UPEW that you needed the 4021s I would have given you a few. HFE in Sac carries them for 40 cents and I bought 10 because I am making my own controller for my daughter's handheld prop gamer that is in the works.

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  • Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
    edited 2010-07-08 15:17
    @WBA

    Actually the project for the mini arcades didn't come up until Matthew and I had a chance to talk on the return flight.
    We were discussing how difficult it might be to bring the Propeller Arcade to UPENE without breaking it, when
    Matthew suggested that we might build some mini arcade machines.

    Instead of hacking apart a NES controller and building an interface from it I thought it might be time to reach forward
    again and tackle a couple new skills which have been on my list for a while now.

    OBC

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  • WBA ConsultingWBA Consulting Posts: 2,935
    edited 2010-07-08 20:56
    So, what size would 1/3 scale be? I have always wanted to hack one of the mini arcade games from when I was growing up with a propeller arcade setup.

    cgi.ebay.com/1980s-COLECO-FROGGER-MINI-ARCADE-TABLE-TOP-SEGA-GAME-/380219383829?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5886d76015

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  • Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
    edited 2010-07-08 21:02
    I haven't finished all the calculations.. But here's a rough draft.
    This is based on the side panel being 1x12x

    (Actually Bryan Cartwright (UPE fame) is working out the exact dimensions as he's a wiz with illustrator)

    OBC

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