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PropGFX: Will it EVER get done?!?!? — Parallax Forums

PropGFX: Will it EVER get done?!?!?

MicrocontrolledMicrocontrolled Posts: 2,461
edited 2010-12-23 15:55 in Propeller 1
We have been waiting for the arrival of PropGFX.
And waiting.
And waiting.
And waiting.

When will it come out? What is the development status on this?
I think the scheme behind it is the PropII will come out first and then they won't HAVE to make it. smile.gif
Seriously, though, has any recent progress been made?

Thanks,
Micro

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Comments

  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 18,069
    edited 2010-06-18 05:43
    I know Coley has been flatout at work :-(

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  • ColeyColey Posts: 1,112
    edited 2010-06-18 07:09
    Flat out - that's an understatement, though I'm not complaining in this current finiancial climate lol

    Seriously though, Microcontrolled if you are that eager to have one PM me and let's see if I can get you one to alpha test, I have lots of modules sat around gathering dust.

    As regards the release of PropGFX Lite, we are making a few changes that will open the market up to shall we say less Prop-centric users.

    So it's still coming but it will be in a few different forms and will be available through a few distribution channels.

    Regards,

    Coley

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  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 18,069
    edited 2010-06-18 07:54
    Microcontrolled: Are you in Oz???

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    Links to other interesting threads:

    · Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBlade,·RamBlade,·SixBlade, website
    · Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
    · Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
    · Emulators: CPUs Z80 etc; Micros Altair etc;· Terminals·VT100 etc; (Index) ZiCog (Z80) , MoCog (6809)·
    · Prop OS: SphinxOS·, PropDos , PropCmd··· Search the Propeller forums·(uses advanced Google search)
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  • Karl SmithKarl Smith Posts: 50
    edited 2010-06-18 11:25
    If you don't have alot of time on your hands instead of keep putting it off, maybe gadgetgangster can produce them for you.
  • Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
    edited 2010-06-18 18:45
    Request:

    Could we twist your arm into setting one of the binaries free so folks could create their own
    and play with it at large? It sounds like there is much more in the works. A "lite-lite" version of the
    binary would permit folks to start in and still be hungry for more later.

    A little present for UPEW 2010?? [noparse]:)[/noparse]

    OBC

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  • Nick McClickNick McClick Posts: 1,003
    edited 2010-06-18 19:02
    @Karl - I have offered, although I'm not sure if they've decided yet. Either way, I will stock the PropGFX when it is available. I'm as excited as everyone else - the demos have been jaw dropping.

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  • fezmonkeyfezmonkey Posts: 41
    edited 2010-06-19 04:36
    What is propgfx? I see some cool YouTube about it but I am not sure what is the product? Software? Hardware? How can I add it to my system?
  • potatoheadpotatohead Posts: 10,261
    edited 2010-06-19 05:20
    It's a small Propeller board that serves up graphics. You connect a display to it, power, and communicate the graphics, and commands serially. There is an 8 bit data path too.

    The EEPROM loads all the COGs with graphics code. One does the display, another does comms, and the rest manipulate the data given.

    The Lite version is limited to the colors offered by the reference video circuit. There is another version that does more than that, using a chip to help realize the display signal.

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  • fezmonkeyfezmonkey Posts: 41
    edited 2010-06-19 06:04
    Since it is using a propeller then what is stopping anyone from taking the image and running it on any board they own? or making their own board?
    ...unless that hardware is more than a propeller and few resistors?!
  • BradCBradC Posts: 2,601
    edited 2010-06-19 06:30
    fezmonkey said...
    Since it is using a propeller then what is stopping anyone from taking the image and running it on any board they own? or making their own board?

    Morals and good manners.

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  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2010-06-19 06:42
    Coley is quite big, it wouldn't be a good idea to annoy him. smile.gif

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  • ColeyColey Posts: 1,112
    edited 2010-06-19 08:34
    hahaha Leon is quite right, I'll come knocking!

    The value of PropGFX is in the code and in the hardware.

    It's true that for PropGFX Lite we use the Parallax video reference circuit but PropGFX uses a video encoder for increased colour depth.

    There is nothing (yet) to stop some unscupulous individuals copying out code from the eeprom and maybe that is one of the reasons why it has been delayed so much. We intend to put as much protection in there as we can to stop casual copying of the code but as there is no definitive way to protect the IP in the Prop (IMHO the core problem that is holding back Prop being used in commercial applications) it will still be possible to rip the code.

    We had also considered ditching the Prop in favour of an FPGA/CLPD where we can protect the IP but common sense prevailed lol

    I am waiting for some boards from GadgetGangster and will be producing a series of shields for the PropModule and Arduino etc...

    I'll speak with Baggers later to see if we can release a crippled binary to give you all a taste of what is to come.

    Regards,

    Coley

    PS Thanks Leon for bigging me up tongue.gif

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  • BaggersBaggers Posts: 3,019
    edited 2010-06-19 09:55
    I'll see what I can do, the initial problem with that is the fact that it uses the full 64KB EEPROM, now that automatically cuts out the Demoboard, which has 32KB but has Composite out, the Protoboard, has the required 64KB EEPROM, but no Composite out.

    I guess I could do a crippled version that has just one video mode, say a spectrum display ( 256x192 1bit bitmap, with 8x8 colour attributes ) and 4 colour sprites, and keep it within 32KB would that be ok?
    or would you want a 4 colour character map display with 4 colour sprites?

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  • ColeyColey Posts: 1,112
    edited 2010-06-19 10:04
    Jim, do the enhanced Speccy display bitmap set up for Protoboard and I guess you could just use normal video pins.

    Probably best to start a new thread for the release cool.gif

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  • iemandiemand Posts: 5
    edited 2010-06-19 10:21
    I live in Europe, Netherlands, so if you bring it out as a kit, I can't buy it.

    Your demo video's look great, but I can't find a place to download.
    Is there some place where I can download the spin files, so I can test it on my own propeller board (even if its just a alpha version)?
  • ColeyColey Posts: 1,112
    edited 2010-06-19 10:35
    Short answer is no.

    We will release a binary that you can download into your own setup that will be a trial version.

    We will post this on another thread so keep a look out for it.

    BTW We live in Europe too so the Netherlands isn't that far away yeah.gif

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  • Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
    edited 2010-06-19 14:35
    Fantastic!

    There is a Hydra EEPROM program which should be able to create the 64K it's released in two parts.
    Anyone with a Protoboard should be able to participate. Thanks guys for considering the request!

    OBC

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  • BaggersBaggers Posts: 3,019
    edited 2010-06-19 16:05
    I'm going to make a demo board compatible version, cut down, so one video mode + sprites, and serial coms only, as it only has 8 spare IO P0-P7, so I'll put coms on 6&7.

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  • jazzedjazzed Posts: 11,803
    edited 2010-06-19 16:25
    @Baggers, do you have a specification of services?
    Is there a version that can use a Propeller ProtoBoard which has 64KB EEPROM?
    I would like to try a separate Propeller video interface like this with the Propeller JVM.

    I'm afraid many of us (not just noobs) are in the dark about PropGFX Lite's abilities.

    Thanks,
    --Steve

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  • Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
    edited 2010-06-19 16:54
    PropGFX trial on one propeller....
    SIDcog serial on another propeller....
    FemtoBASIC mod running on another propeller...

    {OBC starts to sweat...} [noparse]:)[/noparse]

    Posted this news to Propellerpowered with an example of what might possible for everyone soon...

    OBC

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  • fezmonkeyfezmonkey Posts: 41
    edited 2010-06-19 17:57
    What about licensing the firmware binary or source option?
  • BaggersBaggers Posts: 3,019
    edited 2010-06-19 19:13
    Jazzed, there are many many modes the PropGFX lite has, I will put it out in an PDF also.
    I guess I'll have to add the cropped version in a PDF also [noparse]:D[/noparse]

    OBC, [noparse]:D[/noparse] if Ahle2 will allow, I'll put a version of SIDcog on the cropped version of the PropGFX lite [noparse]:)[/noparse]

    fezmonkey, why would you want a license of the binary? what are you wanting to do with it?

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    ·
  • ColeyColey Posts: 1,112
    edited 2010-06-19 19:27
    Baggers, I think he wants it for this....

    www.microframeworkprojects.com/index.php?title=FEZ_Gameo

    @fezmonkey

    you should contact us away from this forum if you want to discuss things like that.
    If you have any alliances with GHI then someone has already made contact with me (it may even be you wink.gif )

    Regards,

    Coley

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  • fezmonkeyfezmonkey Posts: 41
    edited 2010-06-19 20:36
    A binary option maybe good for this FEZ Gameo project
    http://www.microframeworkprojects.com/index.php?title=FEZ_Gameo

    I guess we should try propgfx to see what it is about before thinking about anything else. Also, the license is against the idea behind the project begin open source ... but, if propgfx is as good as I am thinking then it maybe worth licensing.

    The most important part now is to fix the propgfx website so it has some documentation/information on what is available and what to expect....there is zero info out there, beside the videos on youtube!...or I am not looking in the right place.
  • Bill HenningBill Henning Posts: 6,445
    edited 2010-06-19 20:39
    I don't think it is against the Open Source idea *IF* you consider PropGFX to be a component - a black box if you will - as it is intended to be.

    Note that you also don't have VHDL for the processors... and that is not against its open-source-ness...
    fezmonkey said...
    A binary option maybe good for this FEZ Gameo project
    http://www.microframeworkprojects.com/index.php?title=FEZ_Gameo

    I guess we should try propgfx to see what it is about before thinking about anything else. Also, the license is against the idea behind the project begin open source ... but, if propgfx is as good as I am thinking then it maybe worth licensing.

    The most important part now is to fix the propgfx website so it has some documentation/information on what is available and what to expect....there is zero info out there, beside the videos on youtube!...or I am not looking in the right place.
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  • ColeyColey Posts: 1,112
    edited 2010-06-19 20:54
    fezmonkey said...

    A binary option maybe good for this FEZ Gameo project
    http://www.microframeworkprojects.com/index.php?title=FEZ_Gameo

    I guess we should try propgfx to see what it is about before thinking about anything else. Also, the license is against the idea behind the project begin open source ... but, if propgfx is as good as I am thinking then it maybe worth licensing.

    The most important part now is to fix the propgfx website so it has some documentation/information on what is available and what to expect....there is zero info out there, beside the videos on youtube!...or I am not looking in the right place.

    You won't find any information on a product that isn't yet available but you will find our progress with the development in the forum.

    have a look here PropGFX Forum

    Regards,

    Coley

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  • Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
    edited 2010-07-12 18:20
    Just bumping the thread a little to see if there are any updates on this project?

    OBC

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  • ColeyColey Posts: 1,112
    edited 2010-07-12 19:41
    @OBC

    God loves a tryer wink.gif

    Nothing has moved on this as we are too busy with paying work right now.
    As soon as we get time we will be back on PropGFX.

    Regards,

    Coley

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  • Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
    edited 2010-12-21 06:26
    This project is just too amazing to let slide...
    (IIRC, The demo below was done with a version of FemtoBASIC and 10+ lines of code)

    Any chance on an update on both the trial and commercial versions of this product? :)

    OBC
  • ColeyColey Posts: 1,112
    edited 2010-12-21 10:32
    I guess the real truth of the matter is that we dont honestly believe that it will get used.
    We see their being more mileage away from Propeller circles such as Arduino.....
    Ive spoken to Baggers on many occasions about this and we both feel that games development on Propeller has ground to a halt and that is one of the primary reasons we did this.
    Maybe Baggers can chip in here with his thoughts.

    Regards,

    Coley
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