XBee Series 2 Zigbee modules added at Parallax - feedback on comparison chart w
Ken Gracey
Posts: 7,401
www.parallax.com/XBeeRFModuleComparision/tabid/829/Default.aspx
Looks like the web team expanded the XBee comparison chart to include two new Series 2 modules today.
I'd welcome any feedback on the comparison chart given the potential confusion around incompatibility of Series 1 and Series 2. I noticed that the price is incorrect on the 1.25 mW Series 2 module - it will be decreased in the morning when Lauren arrives at work.
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Ken Gracey
Parallax Inc.
Follow me at http://twitter.com/ParallaxKen for some insider news.
Looks like the web team expanded the XBee comparison chart to include two new Series 2 modules today.
I'd welcome any feedback on the comparison chart given the potential confusion around incompatibility of Series 1 and Series 2. I noticed that the price is incorrect on the 1.25 mW Series 2 module - it will be decreased in the morning when Lauren arrives at work.
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Ken Gracey
Parallax Inc.
Follow me at http://twitter.com/ParallaxKen for some insider news.
Comments
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- Stephen
Series 1 runs DigiMesh networking and Series 2 runs ZigBee networking. Apparently the only reason you'd want Series 2 is to maintain compatibility with non-Digi ZigBee-compliant RF devices. Something for the comparison chart maybe?
Thanks for the feedback on this one.
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Ken Gracey
Parallax Inc.
Follow me at http://twitter.com/ParallaxKen for some insider news.
Rich H
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The Simple Servo Tester, a kit from Gadget Gangster.
And, all of the modules sold by Parallax are compatible with one another!
Rich H
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The Simple Servo Tester, a kit from Gadget Gangster.
I know you don't want to muddy the waters, but "right out of the box" does not apply easily to series 2 XBees. There are 6 essential flavors of ZB firmware, 3 for AT mode and 3 for API mode, and within each of those it is separate firmware for coordinator, router and end point. If you sell people these devices to be used "out of the box", you may have to sell them a set that includes one XBee pre-set as a coordinator. (otherwise known as a development kit!) With series 2 there is a lot more to understand about the differences in firmware and function. It is possible to have devices address one another directly using their 64 bit MAC addresses, but sometimes even that does not seem to work without having initially been blessed by a coordinator. (Series 2 is the hardware, "ZB" is Digi's firmware implementation of zigbee standard).
In contrast, series 1 with 802.15.4 firmware has only one version that covers all the the options for AT vs API operation and also end point versus coordinator. It can truly operate in very useful ways right out of the box, and the user need not be troubled wondering about coordinators or advanced options, until later, perhaps, at which point those options are available with a command, without reflashing the firmware. It is much more user friendly unless you really need the horsepower of the full zigbee implementation. Not only are series 1 and series 2 hardware and firmware NON-interoperable. Example code that is written for series 1 will not necessarily work on series 2. For example, in series 2 ZB the MY address is set automatically by the coordinator, read-only for the programmer. In contrast, in series 1 most of the more advanced exmple code depends on the programmer setting MY address.
I feel that the comparison chart does not make clear why one would choose one series over another. Some people are automatically going to think "2" is better than "1" and are going to come back crying for support. Ouch! The comparison chart seems to make side by side comparisons, but it really does need more of a qualitative lead-in.
Ken, you mention above that series 1 devices run Digimesh networking. Partly true. Series 1 can run either its standard 802.15.4 firmware, or it can be reflashed (XCTU) with the completely separate Digimesh firmware. While 802.15.4 is a baseline standard that is nominally compatible with 802.15.4 devices from other manufacturers, Digimesh is a proprietary protocol of Digi, and it is NON-interoperable with either standard XBees running the 802.15.4 firmware or with other manufacturers. Digimesh has nice features for a certain kind of mesh topology. However, I think you will be selling XBees with the good old standard 802.15.4 firmware.
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Tracy Allen
www.emesystems.com
You might consider a link to this page at Digi for the differences between Series 1/Series 2:
http://www.digi.com/support/kbase/kbaseresultdetl.jsp?id=2213
Wouldn't it make more sense to have the order (left to right) be Series 1/Series 1 Pro/Series 2/Series 2 Pro?
Right now it's Series 1/Series 1 Pro/Series 2 Pro/Series 2
Why is·the output power listed in the·top row for the Series 2 modules but not the Series 1?
Why is there no receiver sensitivity listed for the Series 2?
Would you consider adding a link to the Digi document (white paper?) that describes their testing of the ranges of the different antennas?
http://ftp1.digi.com/support/images/XST-AN019a_XBeeAntennas.pdf
There's a sentence near the top that doesn't make sense:
"The Digi XBee product line All XBee modules sold by Parallax are cross-compatible and very easy to put to use immediately out of the box. "
Rich H
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The Simple Servo Tester, a kit from Gadget Gangster.
Post Edited (W9GFO) : 6/9/2010 10:46:25 PM GMT
Suggested change in wording;
Slightly longer communication distance: 400 feet line of sight for the 1.25 mW module and up to two miles line of sight communication distance for the 63 mW module.
Stop me when you've heard enough.
Rich H
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The Simple Servo Tester, a kit from Gadget Gangster.
Post Edited (W9GFO) : 6/9/2010 10:48:08 PM GMT
Remove "Choosing".
Rich H
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The Simple Servo Tester, a kit from Gadget Gangster.
·
'Choosing' was removed from the description in the places where it existed erroneously, and the line of 'sign' wording was made more correct.
·
I've removed the bit about compatibility from the Series 1 product pages, and I'm currently changing the wording and links on the comparison page to reflect the suggestions made on this thread: such as the out-of-the-box bit and other tactics to make the chart less of a direct comparison without detracting from the utility of the page or hiding specific elements.
Oh, and the PRO and Normal(?) modules' orientation·have been flopped to match Series 1 and Series 2's presentation.
Keep the feedback coming if it exists!
-]]
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http://www.parallax.com/XBeeRFModuleComparision/tabid/829/Default.aspx
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"The Digi XBee product line All XBee modules sold by Parallax are cross-compatible within their series, we currently offer Series 1 and 2 modules. "
That doesn't make any sense.
In addition, I believe that Series 2 modules DO have firmware preloaded. They don't work right out of the box because one of them needs to be configured as Coordinator, right? I don't use Series 2, but that was my understanding. Configuration is not the same as loading firmware.
How about something like this?
"The Digi corporation manufactures over 70 different varieties of XBee modules with different antennas, power type, and capabilities. Parallax has evaluated·and chosen the most useful of these XBee modules. Many of the XBee modules' functions·such as addressing, power output,·and baud rate for communication with a microprocessor can be·configured through the free Digi X-CTU software utility* or directly from your microcontroller through a terminal program. Parallax documentation demonstrates these features.
It is very easy to get started with Series 1 XBees, as·they arrive·configured to communicate right out of the box.·Series 2 modules·require minor·configuration before use. All XBee modules sold by Parallax are compatible within their series,·so any Series 1 module can talk with any other Series 1 module, and any Series 2 module can talk with any other Series 2 module. However, the different Series are not cross-compatible: Series 1 and Series 2 modules cannot talk·with each other. Major differences between Series 1 and Series 2 have been listed on Digi's site.·
*Available at Digi.com"·· <--- or just make it a link in the text.
Post Edited (sylvie369) : 6/11/2010 11:21:21 PM GMT
http://www.parallax.com/XBeeRFModuleComparision/tabid/829/Default.aspx
Thanks for the assistance, saying they're not cross-compatible and then suggesting they are was a tad confusing...
I've also added the document about antenna considerations underneath the series information.
Anything else that might make this page more helpful?
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"Additionally, if you're having difficulties deciding if the·Standard or PRO version is right for your application a document comparing the antennas of both varieties is provided here - XBee & XBee‐PRO OEM RF Module Antenna Considerations (.pdf)"
It's not the antennas that are compared, really. It's the range of different modules with different antennas. How about this?
"The range of the modules is determined largely by the power output (regular vs. Pro) and by the type of antenna mounted on the module. Digi provides a document here summarizing the results of range tests of various modules: - XBee & XBee‐PRO OEM RF Module Antenna Considerations (.pdf)"
Although the table is a valid comparison and nicely done, the fact remains that 90%+ of users will probably want the Series 1 module and a prominent statement to that effect should be on that page.
There are killer latency/throughput problems with Zigbee Mesh in real world applications that requires some serious consideration of project design before going in that direction.
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Tom Talbot
New Market, MD, USA
I feel it's much better now. Don't feel bad about us being so picky here. Digi has not done a great job of distinguishing XBee flavors, and although they do have lots of stuff on their web site, it is stew that mixes up hardware, firmware, network topologies and applications, current and past, so a person really has to dig around in order to form a nuanced picture. For example, the document on the Digi web site that you link to, to explain the differences between series 1 and series 2, starts out great but then devolves into a highly technical description of firmware that they have long since discontinued, including a prominent link to a detailed description of the numbering of the discontinued firmware versions. Huh?! It misses a huge number of what I would consider essential differences (having been bitten by them in the struggle to understand). The Digi comparison page ends with:
"A study of the product manuals to compare the Series 1 and Series 2 radios more completely is left to the user. However, Digi Applications Engineers are available to discuss these differences in greater detail, and can be reached at 1-801-765-9885."
To compare using the manuals is an arduous task! But the part about Digi Applications Engineers being available is 100% true. They are really accessible and willing to help. I've gone back completely to series 1 for my applications, which are really very simple and need the speed and low power benefits of series 1.
The statement "Parallax documentation demonstrates these features" still rings hollow to me when it comes to series 2. I think Parallax documentation, with Martin Hebel's contributions especially, demonstrates series 1 very well.
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Tracy Allen
www.emesystems.com
I've included a few more changes, not entirely sure what the best method would be to approach the favour of Series 1 over Series 2... but I can think of a few ways to make the now hollow statement more solid.
And thanks for the feedback!
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On the Digi website it is now listed as "Product: XBee / XBee-PRO ZNet 2.5 OEM Module" and labeled: "Product Status: Obsolete"
www.digi.com/support/productdetl.jsp?pid=3261&osvid=0&s=269&tp=2&tp2=0
They are now selling the "XBee-PRO ZB".
The ZB offers "Interoperability with ZigBee devices from other vendors"
They are the same hardware as Series 2, but different firmware (not cross compatible).
Also, there is now a "XBee-PRO® ZB Programmable" module as well.
They have a link to upgrade a "Series 2" to a "ZB" called "How to convert ZNet 2.5 modules to ZB modules to support the ZigBee PRO feature set".
www.digi.com/support/kbase/kbaseresultdetl.jsp?id=3025
Oh, and you need to decide which of the three versions of the ZB firmware you want to use because all three won't fit in the module's memory.
ZigBee defines three different device types: coordinator, router, and end device.
A coordinator has the following characteristics: it
•Selects a channel and PAN ID (both 64-bit and 16-bit) to start the network
•Can allow routers and end devices to join the network
•Can assist in routing data
•Cannot sleep--should be mains powered
•Can buffer RF data packets for sleeping end device children.
A router has the following characteristics: it
•Must join a ZigBee PAN before it can transmit, receive, or route data
•After joining, can allow routers and end devices to join the network
•After joining, can assist in routing data
•Cannot sleep--should be mains powered.
•Can buffer RF data packets for sleeping end device children.
An end device has the following characteristics: it
•Must join a ZigBee PAN before it can transmit or receive data
•Cannot allow devices to join the network
•Must always transmit and receive RF data through its parent. Cannot route data.
•Can enter low power modes to conserve power and can be battery-powered.
Here is some info http:[url=http:////www.digi.com/pdf/ds_xbeezbmodules.pdf]http://forums.parallaxinc.com//www.digi.com/pdf/ds_xbeezbmodules.pdf[/url]
Time to update your XBee chart again!
Post Edited (Felich) : 7/7/2010 7:15:13 PM GMT