Taking Your Project to the Manufacturer
AaronR
Posts: 2
Could someone be so kind as to share some knowledge or links to resources/sites explaining the most efficient way to take a Parallax project and have it custom prototyped and manufactured in small quantities.· If you have some expectation of a general price range and estimate on timeframes, I would be very interested in hearing it.
PS: I'm sure this must be a common question, but I was not able to locate any previous discussions.· If you know of an existing post addressing these questions please post the link to it.
Thanks You!
PS: I'm sure this must be a common question, but I was not able to locate any previous discussions.· If you know of an existing post addressing these questions please post the link to it.
Thanks You!
Comments
$$$ = very little over a long time
$$$$ = much more much faster
$$$$$ = a lot very quickly
$$$$$$ = a real lot real cheap
Hope that helps, but maybe with some more information I could give you a less general answer
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*Peter*
One of my companies does contract manufacturing, so I can likely shed some light on your questionn, however as Peter said above, without some more description its difficult to give much of an answer, only some thoughts.
It depends so much on what's involved, how complicated the project is, what the challenges are, etc. For example, even in small quantities, regulatory approval may be required for RF or Telecom products, and for safety or fire CSA or UL approvals may be required. And in Europe the CE mark is a requirement. If the product is intended for general public purchase, you'll need these.
The range of costs for prototyping, board layout and testing and documentation can be significant.
The for production there could be custom tooling and NRE costs to get the thing packaged up etc.
I'd be really surprised to see a commercial contract manufacturer interested in getting involved for less than $10K to $25K. Beyond that there is more interest, but bigger deals can quickly get costs up, often over $100K; we've done several at well over a million. But of course that is not the class you're likely to require, it's just an expression of the range of "how much....?"
I would suggest that you test market your approach through someone such as "Gadget Gangster" on this forum, but I'm not sure if, for their efforts -which can be considerable- they may want "a piece of the action". I think they have an interesting business model and that's probably your best initial bet, and get all kinds of information for a short run.
Hope that's been somewhat helpful.
Cheers,
Peter (pjv)
Post Edited (pjv) : 5/24/2010 1:36:26 PM GMT
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=909026
You really have to talk to the manufacturer.· Someone gave me advice on another forum to add to what Leon said:
Not to mention the greatly increased complexity of today's designs.
When I last worked for a company that relied on someone else to make our boards, the frequencies the components operated at were a small fraction of what they are today, the boards had far fewer surface mount components, and the number of layers required was a lot less.
Today's designs are operating so fast the careful calculation of the trace lead lengths is necessary to avoid timing problems, RF interference, and to limit cross talk.
Last year, I looked into a production run of PPC based motherboards, but the complexity, cost, and limited market put me off.
It's not that the manufacturers are worse, its just that the designs are so much more difficult to realize.
Manufacturing isn't what it once was.· There is an error rate.· Is the error rate 10% or 1%.· What is acceptable and who takes the loss?
Also, be ready to provide a working prototype. A product in the hand is worth ten drawings; but you will have to provide the drawings, too. If you don't specify something in writing, don't expect it to get done. I once had an assembly house assemble 900 boards with leaded solder. But, because I had designated lead-free in the written specs, they paid to have new boards made and reimbursed me for the components they used. Otherwise, I'd have been out a lot of money.
-Phil
Most automated fab shops will charge you a fairly heafty setup fee but very low per board cost but hand assembly is the other way around. Low to no setup cost but a much higher cost per board.
For either aproach here are some tips to help you keep the costs down:
1) Place components on 1 side of the board only. If you must place only bipass caps on the oposite side of the board
2) As much as possibly try to use non fine pitched components. possible solder bridging or out of alignment parts require more work to fix if fine pitch thus more cost gets added to cover potential mistakes in assembly.
3) Before getting boards made ask what is easiest for them to assemble.
For example:
*automated assembly will be cheaper if you place special markings on your boards.
*Panelizing boards into larger boards will often make cheaper to assemble but there are limits to how big a panel can be
4) Avoid super fine traces on component side and tiny components unless needed. Anything smaller then 0603 component you will start to pay a lot more and fine traces can lift if any rework is needed.
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Lots of propeller based products in stock at affordable prices.
Do you have any customers or are you just hoping? It is far better to have a definite customer or project lined up and all else is "cream" otherwise you may be better manufacturing some small quantities yourself, it's not too hard. Everything has a learning curve, with involves hard work and pain from which comes experience and I have to say "joy", cause it's fun to learn all this.
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*Peter*
1. The first step, it sounds like, is you need to take your current design and take it the next step in the design process towards a product. Combine elements on a PCB or functionality together. Reduce cost of design (if it is a requirement).
2. Next is to piece together design information into drawings, specification, list of parts, etc.
3. Review your manufacturing options. There are fab companies that do it all versus you doing it all. Truely if you have the skills, you can fabricate a 100 devices on your own. It all depends what the requirements are and what the product is for, your intentions and your market.
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Timothy D. Swieter, E.I.
www.brilldea.com - Prop Blade, LED Painter, RGB LEDs, 3.0" 16:9 LCD Composite video display, eProto for SunSPOT, PropNET, PolkaDOT-51
www.tdswieter.com
It seems the barriers to entry are too great on just the production complexities and costs alone. It pains me to think that the countless hours put into these projects by the talented hobbyists in this community have little chance of ever seeing the production floor, let alone a store shelf.
Perhaps I envisioned a company or companies specializing in Parallax based projects and standard components, who are capable of rapid, small quantity and low cost production runs. It seems possible doesn’t it? Does this company exist? Is there an opportunity for such a company to emerge and be profitable?
Forgive me for being so green.
Best Method for "short run" of PCBs
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=906675
If you look back at any of the computer companies in the 80's, they all had partners or teams and I recognize the teamwork in the forums with people helping each other.· You're trying to do the job of many people and what I learned in college is that people fail for trying to do too much.· If it is easier, try a short run of PCB's and you could save money by making a few by hand.· Any unanticipated loss would be smaller.
The other point I want to make is that you could possibly try to pull Parallax aside, talk to them, tell them what you are trying to do and assuming there is some chemistry there, they could take your idea and guide you through it but you should really ask them what is the best method to approach them on this.
What I learned in college was to make goals.· We write down on a piece of paper what our goal is and then we have to write down the steps to complete the goal.· In order to get from point A to point B, there must be enough concrete steps to make.· And if we can't complete the goal, we have to go back and figure the steps that we need to add towards completing our goal.· It doesn't mean that we will or won't complete our goal but people who set goals may be more likely to completing what we set out to do.· In theory, it works on paper.
·
Have you looked at Gadget Gangster's web site. They allow user to sell through their system. They have a couple different methods of stocking your item. One is you provide it and the second is you design the system using their inventory and then they put together a kit.
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Timothy D. Swieter, E.I.
www.brilldea.com - Prop Blade, LED Painter, RGB LEDs, 3.0" 16:9 LCD Composite video display, eProto for SunSPOT, PropNET, PolkaDOT-51
www.tdswieter.com
just build your product at home.
That's what I would do if I were you. Get the boards made at
a Chinese board house and learn sm soldering and you should
be just fine
Then try to sell here and or on ebay at first.
Please, what is this product?????
If you don't want to describe it here you could pm me, I'm just too
curious for my own good, that's why I ask