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ARLISS Team NH

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  • Justin DaCostaJustin DaCosta Posts: 59
    edited 2011-04-15 07:41
    Hi Jake,
    I can bring an NXT with me if you want me to. The motors are bigger than with RCX. We do have converter wires as well, that you could use. I'll have at least one prototype for the meeting, and I am working on other ideas...
    Justin
  • Jake GoldsberryJake Goldsberry Posts: 85
    edited 2011-04-15 14:23
    That's great Justin! I'm glad to hear you have progress. It would be great for you to bring the NXT controller to next practice

    Mr. Kibler- I have checked the batteries and I don't know what else to do but the RCX controller seems just as unresponsive as mine. Did you know for certain that it worked when you brought it to school? What else can I try to get it running? I made sure it was protected all day so it can't be a damage thing.

    See you all this weekend!

    -Jake-
  • Obie WanObie Wan Posts: 46
    edited 2011-04-15 17:31
    Jake, what isn't working? Could it be a loose wire or something similiar.

    And what is a NXT controller and a RCX xontroller? What is the difference?

    Glad to hear the prototypes are coming along.

    Mr. Kibler how is the ASP-Bot at this point in time? Does it still take on the form it has in the previous photos?

    See you all in a few days
    Obie
  • Jake GoldsberryJake Goldsberry Posts: 85
    edited 2011-04-16 04:56
    Obie- We are using Lego robotics to prototype our ideas. Both of my RCX controllers aren't working, and i'm unsure why.

    Hopefully that helps,
    -Jake-
  • Mark KiblerMark Kibler Posts: 545
    edited 2011-04-16 06:22
    Obie- We are using Lego robotics to prototype our ideas. Both of my RCX controllers aren't working, and i'm unsure why.

    Hopefully that helps,
    -Jake-

    Jake,

    Are you sure both RCX's don't work? Do they just not turn on when you put batteries in or what? Have you tried new batteries, or connecting a 110 to 9 volt converter to one of them? I have a version 2.0 RCX we can try on Sunday. It sounds like Justin also has the larger, newer NXT version.

    Jake, we actually had the program code sequence correct at school. PJ reminded me that the first time the program runs, it's doing a "zero count" test and so it turns on after it reads the eighth '0'. Then you have to push the 'reset' button to clear the zero counter before you put it in the vacuum chamber (or before you launch it.) The program runs flawlessly now, thanks to PJ's expertise guidance and our diligence. There's stil plenty more to do though, and I'm eager to see the parachute release device prototypes tomorrow at practice.

    Are Andrew and Emily still there...? Haven't heard much from either of them in a while. Chase, will you be at practice on Sunday?

    Yawn,

    M. Kibler
    :cool:
  • Chase St. LaurentChase St. Laurent Posts: 17
    edited 2011-04-16 08:18
    Hey all.

    I am coming to the practice this sunday. I have created a detailed drawing plan for the release mechanism for the parachute AND the hub cap idea if we choose to incorporate it. The design would use only the force of impact to release both the hub cap and the parachute in one motion. I unfortunately don't have the needed materials to build this at my house (Legos wont do it because it incorporates springs and other non-lego pieces) so I currently do not have a working prototype. I hope that these drawings will be useful. If possible on Sunday I would like to work with a couple people and create my design that I have drawn. Thanks! See you all soon.

    Chase
  • Jake GoldsberryJake Goldsberry Posts: 85
    edited 2011-04-16 09:56
    Chase- I can't wait to see your design. Hopefully we will have the materials to prototype it at Mr. Kibler's house.

    Mr. Kibler- I have tried new batteries and everything, it just wont turn on. What was the thing about 110 to a 9 volt converter or something like that?

    I'm also glad to hear the program does work! What else needs to be accomplished now for that?

    See "y'all" tomorrow!
    -Jake-
  • Andrew (ARLISS)Andrew (ARLISS) Posts: 213
    edited 2011-04-16 15:14

    Are Andrew and Emily still there...? Haven't heard much from either of them in a while. Chase, will you be at practice on Sunday?

    Yawn,

    M. Kibler
    :cool:

    Mr. Kibler,

    Sorry for my absence over the past several days. We lost internet access at our home, and it was only restored just now. I see that a lot of discussion and progress has been made since I've last been online. I am discussing the progress we have made with Dylan right now, and he is clarifying anything important that I've missed (which seems to be quite a bit!).

    Looking forward to seeing everyone at tomorrow's meeting,

    Andrew
  • Dylan LandryDylan Landry Posts: 235
    edited 2011-04-16 15:31
    Mr. Kibler,
    I will not be able to make it to tomorrow"s practice due to me condition. I am extremely sick and having trouble functioning. I have already told Andrew about what the programming team needs to get done, and have caught him up to what the teams have accomplished. I apologize for my absence, but I know that there is now way I could come to tomorrows practice.
  • Mark KiblerMark Kibler Posts: 545
    edited 2011-04-16 17:53
    Mr. Kibler,
    I will not be able to make it to tomorrow"s practice due to me condition. I am extremely sick and having trouble functioning. I have already told Andrew about what the programming team needs to get done, and have caught him up to what the teams have accomplished. I apologize for my absence, but I know that there is now way I could come to tomorrows practice.


    Dylan,

    Sorry to hear that you're sick and that you won't be at practice tomorrow. Thanks for the advance notice. Maybe they're working you too hard at track practice...? Do you have practice every day?

    Andrew
    will be working with the parachute release mechanism team tomorrow (Jake and Justin). Obie (and maybe Chase will be working on the program and the rover with me. After he shares his ideas with them I'm going to have Chase and Emily work with the shortwave transmitter (the one that goes on the rover) and with the transceiver (the one that reads out the rover's longitude and latitude. They need to understand how to use them; then they'll write a procedure that everyone can use and understand.

    The "parachute release mechanism team" will be called "the Design Team" from now on because their responsibilities are expanding tomorrow. To go along with the parachute release mechanism they now have to design a stabilizer tail/wheel for the rover so it doesn't "tip over" or spin around when it moves. Remember how we taped the thin metal "tail" to the underside oftthe rover at out last practice so it didn't flip-flop around? That's the idea... except that the stabilizer mechanism has to fit in a VERY small space, like the parachute release mechanism. There is virtually no room to add anything else. The parking lot is full. No room at the inn. Nada.

    "Get well soon."

    From "Hacienda Kibler" (*Hey, where IS cowboy PJ anyway ~ ?)
    :cool:
  • Justin DaCostaJustin DaCosta Posts: 59
    edited 2011-04-16 19:25
    Hi,

    I had an idea for a stabilizer that would take up very little space. We would attach the stabilizer with a hinge that was spring loaded. See the pictures. The stabilizer bar would be curved so it would fit inside the tube. When the ASP BOT pops out of the tube, the stabilizer bar would spring out. So when it landed it would be ready.
    IMG_0425.jpg


    Justin
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  • Chase St. LaurentChase St. Laurent Posts: 17
    edited 2011-04-17 10:31
    Hey all.

    I was not feeling well yesterday so I tried to rest this morning before going to practice today but unfortunately I am still feeling ill. I was really eager to explain in detail my concept for the release mechanism so I have attached a file so you can see my drawings and dimensions.ReleaseMechanism.pdf Hopefully you are able to see this pdf. Let me try and explain the design to you all.

    My design is supposed to only use the mere force from impact to release the parachute and the hub cap(if we choose to incorporate it) from the bot all in one swift motion without the use of motors.

    Part A: This is the way the parachute would be released. In the first image is a metal bar with precision hole cut out for the release. In image two you can see there are two angled pieces attached by a spring and a smaller metal bar that would fit in the precision hole from picture 1. Picture three shows the needed dimension for a cut out in the wheel. The angled portion of picture two along with the springs would be pushed downwards, compressing the spring inwards and popping the portion from picture two out of the precision bar from picture 1. Essentialy the metal bar would also not be protruding from the wheel as well because it would hypothetically slip past that. (Hope you understand that portion.)

    Part B: This is what would be placed inside the bot. (IT IS NOT DRAWN TO SCALE) This would not take up as much room as it looks like it would in the picture. If you see the dimensions the metal bars are actually ideally only 1.5 cm in diameter. They need to be this wide so that the part from A-2 can slip through it. So it needs to be kind of wide. What is happening in B is the bar bellow the middle is pushing upwards on the block which would be attached on a lazy suzan type attachment for it to be rotated. THIS NEXT PART IS THE WHOLE CONCEPT OF THE RELEASE: The lower bar is pushed upwards by the force of the impact on the ground and this in turn would push down the upper bar. This would allow for the parachute to release and the hub cap as well.

    Part C: The hub cap release is essentially the same as the parachute release. The hub cap is attached to a metal bar that goes in the component that I drew an arrow to in the first and second picture from C.


    Again I appologize for not being able to come, but I hope that this idea will be helpful to you all. Good luck at practice.

    Chase
  • Obie WanObie Wan Posts: 46
    edited 2011-04-17 17:02
    Good work today everyone, we made progress. On the whole stabilizer note you could always use something shaped like an "z". I tried to attach a pic to give a better understanding but the computer doesn't want to. Oh well. The rice crispy treats were amazing Jake.

    Obie
  • Jake GoldsberryJake Goldsberry Posts: 85
    edited 2011-04-17 17:52
    Obie- Well i'm glad you enjoyed them but they were my moms. If I even tried to make them they would be on fire, or worse.

    Chase- It's a very interesting idea. Hmm. Well I'm still a little confused by it. I do see a couple of problems with it however.
    1) Justin created a similar idea but it took up a lot of room with the bar crossing (I know you disagree Justin) and would end up hitting our equipment.

    2) What stops the bar from getting pulled out prematurely?

    3) Your design seems a bit complicated as well. Simplest is best.

    Hope you are feeling better!


    Mr. Kibler- I am putting the finishing touches on the prototype (it is all I did this afternoon) and would really like to bring it in tomorrow to show you. Is that okay? I also need a boy scout to show me how to tie that knot again... Mine don't seem to be working at all. Besides that, It is working just as well, but the hook is still taking some fine tuning because the placement of it is key. See you tomorrow

    Thanks again,
    -Jake-

    P.S
    Pj- We got to see your ServoPal and all the programming you helped us with in action today! It worked great, and we are much farther ahead now thanks to you! In fact, you have brought us right back up on schedule (if not ahead of it). Thanks so much again!

    I think we might have time (if we work really hard) to do some more fundraising! That is just my personal opinion however.
  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2011-04-17 18:34
    Mark,
    Yo soy El Tranquilo Vaquero.
    If you need me, PM me.

    Jake,
    Thanks, Amigo.
    Sounds like ARLISS-NH needs to go
    full-tilt/overdrive on this parachute situation.
    As for fundraising, your snacks seem a hit, that means it's bake-sale time!
    Maybe you can sell some ad space on the
  • Justin DaCostaJustin DaCosta Posts: 59
    edited 2011-04-17 18:38
    Hi,

    First off, I'm sorry I didn't help clean up too much this afternoon, but I was in a play. It was a success.

    Jake, I'm happy with the final solution that you came up with.

    Thanks again PJ for all your help. It was great to see everything in action today.

    I also think we should go to Henniker Rotary to get more fundraising done, if not Goffstown, too. I know one year, I worked the Chili festival for them with the team, is that something the team still does?

    Thanks also to Mr. Kibler for doing all you have done for us on your own time. As a family, we also spent time discussing more about that malaria story, and how we need to appreciate what we have.

    Justin
  • Mark KiblerMark Kibler Posts: 545
    edited 2011-04-17 19:51
    PJ Allen wrote: »
    Mark,
    Yo soy El Tranquilo Vaquero.
    .

    Vaquero PJ Sundance,

    Hacienda Kibler was hopping this afternoon. Lots of great progress and lots of happy, animated faces. The kids were thrilled to so (y)our rover ramble along the ground like a caffeinated chipmunk. It (the rover, not the caffeine) energized and buoyed them and they shifted into a higher plane of excellence because of it. Thanks.

    The last "big" hurdle is that doggone parachute release mechanism. Justin and Jake had two excellent ideas and they came with two full-blown prototypes. Either idea would have worked but the Design Team opted for "The (Rube) Goldsberry Invention." Whether the decision was collective or unilateral is uncertain. Jake (of Goldsberry fame) has a full-sized prototype made of Legos and Lego motors, and two of our rover wheels, to work with. I'm eager to see what they end up with but I'm certain it *will* work.

    Ah yes, the voltmeter. The good news is that we have one. That not-so-good news is that "someone" didn't use it to check polarity before installing the battery. "Someone" assumed that red = positive and black = negative but that is not the always case. Le$$on learned the hard way. Now if I could just get my hands on that "someone"... I would clap my hands. "Mis manos son mis manos."

    That business about the boss telling you how to mow the grass each time you come around with the mower: did my wife e-mail you and tell you to tell me that the grass needs mowed. (*I asked her not to do that.) She always stands by the side of the yard every time I come around with the mower... How do I program her and/or the rover with just one program command so the WifePal/ServoPal program isn't repetetively redundant? I'll muse over the program code to see if I can figure it out on my own (for once.) I may need help though.

    I hope you're not diabetic. Expect treats soon. The kids and I are very appreciative of all you've done to help us along.

    Vaya con queso mi amigo. Hasta manana,

    Pepe
    :cool:
  • Jake GoldsberryJake Goldsberry Posts: 85
    edited 2011-04-18 04:05
    Pj- That Cypherbot is very intriguing. It goes (5'?) back and forth slowely, but does it do something else that I am missing? Thanks

    Mr. Kibler- I know you probably aren't going to get this in time (so i'm bringing it anyways) but would it be okay if I worked on the ASP-bot Lego prototype during class? I won't have any time this week so I have been working really hard all yesterday and hopefully today to get this prototype done. As PJ said, "Sounds like ARLISS-NH needs to go full-tilt/overdrive on this parachute situation".

    See you all (hopefully) soon!
    -Jake-
  • Chase St. LaurentChase St. Laurent Posts: 17
    edited 2011-04-18 15:59

    Chase- It's a very interesting idea. Hmm. Well I'm still a little confused by it. I do see a couple of problems with it however.
    1) Justin created a similar idea but it took up a lot of room with the bar crossing (I know you disagree Justin) and would end up hitting our equipment.

    2) What stops the bar from getting pulled out prematurely?

    3) Your design seems a bit complicated as well. Simplest is best.

    First off those are valid concerns but the dimensions in the design are not very large. Judging by what was previously in the bot i am 99% sure it would fit. I feel it does look complicated on paper, but in all actuality it is only a few metal bars with holes in them. I am going to see if I can find pieces to construct this at Home Depot.

    Thanks,
    Chase
  • Andrew (ARLISS)Andrew (ARLISS) Posts: 213
    edited 2011-04-18 17:47
    2) What stops the bar from getting pulled out prematurely?

    Jake,

    This is definitely my biggest concern for both of the designs available right now. Although the wheels of the rover shouldn't be moving, you'll need to take into account the possible stresses placed on the wheels by the parachute, and the stresses incurred at ejection. Therefore...

    A) How will we minimize any stresses to the wheel in the first place?

    B) Can there be a failsafe added to either of the designs to prevent the loss of the parachute midflight?

    Andrew
  • Emily RoseEmily Rose Posts: 53
    edited 2011-04-18 17:54
    Hey Pj,
    I know your more of a programmer but I was wondering if you have any ideas on what to use for a stabilizer, we tried out a simple piece of rectangular metal bent at yesterdays practice but that just made the ASP-BOT I guess you could say rock back and forth.
    Emily
  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2011-04-18 20:28
    E.R.,
    Almost all of Cypherbot's weight is behind its servos' axles. In my demo it's dragging the end of the platform. That's when I had the idea to place a marble underneath (pics attached), it's smooth and decreases the resistance (drag.) Originally, I was looking for a ball bearing, but I could only find the marble.

    ASP-BOT has been described as having a tendency to "flip-flop around." Looking at the pics in #1505, I can see this must a problem. (It wants to be a Segway.) It has a lot of weight to counterpoise.
    My first thought is to affix a couple of struts (pic attached), perhaps with a marble or bearing (optional), but definitely some weight on them. I don't know how much, you will have to work that out, but enough to keep the back down and a little extra for good measure. If you use a heavy material (steel) for your struts the extra weight (ballast) may not be necessary. The ASP-BOT would be dragging the struts.
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  • Jake GoldsberryJake Goldsberry Posts: 85
    edited 2011-04-19 01:51
    Andrew- To make sure we have no pull on the wheel we either
    A) not wrap the string around the "axle"
    b) Find other things to wrap around on the wheel that might be stronger.

    As for the second question, you simply need a second string (for now we are pretending it is wrapped around the axle) wrapped a couple more times around the axle than the first. That way if one gets pulled out, the other on is still holding on for the final descent.


    Well off to D.C for me! I'll try to get on as much as possible but my posts will be limited. Thought you all should know.

    Au revior!
    -Jake-
  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2011-04-19 06:14
    E.R.,
    This morning I thought about "training wheels". Then I thought you could mount a dowel on the front (and/or back) and that would keep it from pitching too far forward. Mounted in brackets with a couple of pins, like an axle, it/they could spin/roll, like a rolling pin.
    See attached - it's the best that I could manage till I get home.
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  • Mark KiblerMark Kibler Posts: 545
    edited 2011-04-19 08:31
    PJ Allen wrote: »
    E.R.,
    Almost all of Cypherbot's weight is behind its servos' axles. In my demo it's dragging the end of the platform. That's when I had the idea to place a marble underneath (pics attached), it's smooth and decreases the resistance (drag.) Originally, I was looking for a ball bearing, but I could only find the marble.

    Cool idea, using the marble. Is it just glued (epoxied) on to the strut?
    ASP-BOT has been described as having a tendency to "flip-flop around." Looking at the pics in #1505, I can see this must a problem. (It wants to be a Segway.) It has a lot of weight to counterpoise.
    My first thought is to affix a couple of struts (pic attached), perhaps with a marble or bearing (optional), but definitely some weight on them. I don't know how much, you will have to work that out, but enough to keep the back down and a little extra for good measure. If you use a heavy material (steel) for your struts the extra weight (ballast) may not be necessary. The ASP-BOT would be dragging the struts.

    ASP-BOT is indeed tipsy. Yesterday we made and installed two small struts on the "rear" (reverse direction side). They remedied the "tipsy" problem slightly. We also put a curved metal "slider" on the 'front' (forward motion side) to stabilize the rover in that direction. Together they resulted in a less tipsy rover but it's still only marginally stable. Maybe we should try the marble/ball bearing idea?? I'll upload pictures -- and I'll try my hand at making a YouTube/video -- tonight. You have to see how it runs to understand it. Words fail me. Except when I hit my finger with the mallet yesterday when I was shaping the metal slider. "Ouch", I said. "Very ouch!"

    The width of the platform the BOE (sensors, etc.) is on is less than the diameter of the wheels. Since the weight is distributed fairly evenly on the platform, the rover simply rolls over like a turtle on wheels if it happens to flip over. Over course the bench test is actually a floor test, done on linoleum and wooden floors. The desert floor is a bit different. It isn't made of linoleum. Or wood.

    Mark
    :cool:
  • Mark KiblerMark Kibler Posts: 545
    edited 2011-04-19 14:44
    Top and bottom view photos of the ASP-BOT rover. We've added two rear stabilizer "tail tabs" and a slider/ stabilizer on the "front" (forward moving direction.) I'll try to make and upload a video.

    Mark
    :cool:
  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2011-04-19 17:16
    My drawing muse is not with me tonight.

    Instead, I made a "mock-up" to help get my point across and took some pics (attached.)

    Dowels are inexpensive enough and some likely/suitable brackets could be purchased at your local hardware store (yay!) or big-box home-improvement store (yuck).
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  • Mark KiblerMark Kibler Posts: 545
    edited 2011-04-19 17:37
    :cool:
    PJ Allen wrote: »
    My drawing muse is not with me tonight.

    Instead, I made a "mock-up" to help get my point across and took some pics (attached.)

    Dowels are inexpensive enough and some likely/suitable brackets could be purchased at your local hardware store (yay!) or big-box home-improvement store (yuck).


    Yes, the muse must have been "out for (to?) lunch" but the point comes across clearly. The dowel idea is simple and clever (as are the coffee can lid and the cardboard box.) Keep in mind though, that nothing can extend beyond the edge of the wheels' diameter since the rover has to slide into, and out of, a 6" diameter payload tube. Otherwise it will get stuck coming out.

    I'll take pictures and post them. I checked in the other room to make sure the 'Ansel Adams muse' is here tonight. Thankfully he is. Usually he has Tuesdays off but he needed the overtime.

    MK
    :cool:
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  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2011-04-19 18:04
    The dowel lengths don't have to go fully the width of the platform.
    The closer their rolling surfaces are to the ground the less pitching there'll be.
    Stability will be better the further you separate the front and back dowels (more separation, more stability.)
    I think that small diameters probably won't roll as well as bigger diameters. Smaller may likely dig/plough more than roll on a loose, uncompacted surface.
  • Justin DaCostaJustin DaCosta Posts: 59
    edited 2011-04-20 05:27
    Hi Everyone,

    PJ - The dowel idea seems promising. It is simple and it gets the job done. I only see one issue with it. How are we going to put something like that on and still have it fit in the payload bay. Other than that it seems like a solid idea.

    Jake - did you get any more done on the parachute release mechanism before you left for D.C. If so how is it working? Is there anything I can do while you are away in Washington.

    Justin
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