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a general question that everyone asks himself... about Parallax — Parallax Forums

a general question that everyone asks himself... about Parallax

rjo_rjo_ Posts: 1,825
edited 2010-05-21 15:38 in General Discussion
I see a Parallax product... on the other hand I also see a way to do it myself... which might equally benefit Parallax... but I don't know for sure... how do I ask without bothering anyone?

I'll·give a hypothetical example... Viewport.· Never would I do anything that would touch Viewport right now because I know that both Parallax and Hanno have a deep vested interest in this product... but that won't always be true.· Someday, Parallax will have its investment back and Hanno won't really need ViewPort for his livelihood... and there are companies out there that want to do it for themselves... that would be time for "FreePort."·

My idea... would be for Parallax to put a little icon on the product page... which basically means...:"don't touch this... we need it right now."

Rich

Post Edited (rjo_) : 5/19/2010 5:49:41 PM GMT

Comments

  • FranklinFranklin Posts: 4,747
    edited 2010-05-19 17:49
    I think that if you abide by any copywrite on a product you are free to "build a better mousetrap" and sell it or put it out to the world. Creative commons and open source hardware are two examples.

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    - Stephen
  • rjo_rjo_ Posts: 1,825
    edited 2010-05-19 18:22
    If you are dying to get into a hospital... sometimes shooting yourself in the foot is the best way.

    Rich
  • W9GFOW9GFO Posts: 4,010
    edited 2010-05-19 18:32
    Based on what Parallax has said and done, they really have no problem with competition. In fact, it seems that they might even be willing to help.

    They appear to have misplaced their corporate greed - how is it that they act like they are profitable???

    Rich H

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  • rjo_rjo_ Posts: 1,825
    edited 2010-05-19 18:51
    I agree with you about corporate greed... but I don't see Parallax as profit avoiding either. There are all kinds of things people can do... whether it fits the flux is a matter of judgement... and the folks at Parallax are in a perfect position to guess right most of the time.
  • edited 2010-05-19 19:45
    W9GFO said...
    Based on what Parallax has said and done, they really have no problem with competition. In fact, it seems that they might even be willing to help.

    They appear to have misplaced their corporate greed - how is it that they act like they are profitable???

    Rich H

    It is kind of like internet security; you can end up blocking the traffic you want to keep.· An open door lets everyone in but a closed door keeps everyone out.· You might never know who wants to buy but a closed door keeps buyers out.

    In business, the company I work for buys competitor's products and our competitors also buy and resell our products.

    ·
  • Ken GraceyKen Gracey Posts: 7,401
    edited 2010-05-19 20:53
    We don't have much objection to anything, to be honest. I can count on a single hand the objectionable situations I've experienced at Parallax with others and they nearly all involved potential legalities (or plain dishonesty). You would have likely been concerned about protecting your own copyrighted documents in the same way if ported to support a competitive product. We don't handle lies, dishonesty or theft - aside from that we place nicely with others all the time. Why not. . .

    About profit. You're right - we want to make a profit and I'll tell you why: reinvest! Are you familiar with the Federal Government's Section 179 (part of the Economic Investment and Recovery Act)? This allows small companies to depreciate capital equipment purchases (manufacturing equipment) up to $250K (or thereabouts) in the year they were purchased. But there's a hitch: this tax deduction is only useful if you have a profit! In other words, a $100K machine may only cost you about $50K if you can depreciate the whole expense. . . . but you must have a profit to benefit from the expense and reduce your net income.

    Profit is also necessary to provide a financial statement to lenders (Propeller shuttles and some inventory can be very expensive), bonuses to staff, etc.

    We're here for the long term and profit is absolutely necessary to maintain a solid business with some moderate growth. It's a necessary component for a business simply for the reason that it enables a new product line that inspires customers and allows them to create innovations from which they can also profit.

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    Ken Gracey
    Parallax Inc.

    Follow me at http://twitter.com/ParallaxKen for some insider news.
  • HollyMinkowskiHollyMinkowski Posts: 1,398
    edited 2010-05-19 23:41
    Competition is good for everyone. With competition everything
    gets better and cheaper.

    Parallax seems to be an exception to the general rule that profit
    is all that matters. They really do seem to have a zeal
    for the technology for its own sake and treat customers well.

    I don't think we will be seeing a site like parallaxsux.com anytime soon.
    Most businesses end up with a ...sux.com site sooner or later, generally
    well deserved.
  • rjo_rjo_ Posts: 1,825
    edited 2010-05-20 00:40
    Holly...

    Competition is not good for everyone. In every competition there is a winner and a loser. Everyone else might benefit but not the loser.

    The way to avoid competition is to seek a niche for which there is no competition. The fact that you got to that perch first doesn't mean that perch will always belong to you... So, you always need to be thinking about where next to go.

    In medicine we have a dictum... "first, do no harm." If we have to benefit ourselves by harming someone else... it is just a miserable zoo that we live in.

    I have rarely competed for anything... and when I did, I was always surrounded by people, who were cheating.

    If you like competition... go at it. For me... point me to that un-seated perch. I have always found a comfortable place to sit. And I have never had to look back and wonder what happen to that poor guy I just ran over.

    Rich
  • John R.John R. Posts: 1,376
    edited 2010-05-20 01:12
    I would strongly disagree with the "it is not good for the loser". You only lose if you choose to lose. If you can't do better than the competition in some way (price, delivery, quality, support, salesmanship, etc.), then by losing sooner rather than latter, you have saved yourself some time, and can move onto the next thing.

    Many "inferior" products win. Remember BetaMax? Better Quality image, smaller tape cartridge, better underlying technology, better slo-motion (and who at that time didn't want to play with slo-mo). It lost, largely because of Sony's choice not to license the technology to third parties until it was too late. They chose to lose to VHS. VHS did not "win", Sony chose to lose.

    You design/build/sell something. The guy down the road does the same, and better. How does this hurt you? It only hurts you if you choose to do nothing, and say "poor me". For the "winners" it is incentive to take things to the next level, and beat the guy down the road at his own game, or find a way to change the game.

    If I was a small town mom and pop retailer, would I fear Walmart? Most do, but I would not. I would do the one thing they can't do (actually two things), I'd charge more, but service the customer with quality and service like they've never seen before. I would choose not to lose. If my product couldn't be sold that way (higher quality and service) I'd go USMC (Improvise, Adapt, Overcome) and find another set of products.

    I'm sorry, I have to agree with the (decidedly "Ms.") Holly Minkowski, competition is good for EVERYONE. (Sorry Holly, your 15 minutes isn't going to die down as fast as it should.)

    (Knowing of one of the few instances that will get Ken's ire up, maybe we can clarify this with "Legal and Honest Competition".)

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    John R.
    Click here to see my Nomad Build Log
  • W9GFOW9GFO Posts: 4,010
    edited 2010-05-20 01:26
    John R. said...
    I would strongly disagree with the "it is not good for the loser". You only lose if you choose to lose. If you can't do better than the competition in some way (price, delivery, quality, support, salesmanship, etc.), then by losing sooner rather than latter, you have saved yourself some time, and can move onto the next thing.

    "Fail early and fail often!"

    Those are the words of advice given by a recently retired Boeing engineer friend of mine (who has several inventions and patents to his name) when asked about the secret to his success.

    Rich H

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  • Roy ElthamRoy Eltham Posts: 3,000
    edited 2010-05-20 01:41
    I would argue (and I think many would be on my side) that you usually learn more from failure than success.

    For me success is the reward for getting through failures.

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  • edited 2010-05-20 02:26
    I have to agree with John.

    It isn't all about winning and losing.· It is about satisfying the customer and providing a service and sometimes it is providing a service that someone else is not providing.

    ..."Thomas Edison, who said, "I have not failed 10,000 times. I have
    successfully found 10,000 ways that will not work." REFERENCE The
    World Bank. 1994. World Development Report 1994: Infrastructure for
    Development. New York, N.Y.: Oxford University Press..."
  • edited 2010-05-20 02:29
    I almost forgot that plexiglass was created by accident at Rohm and Haas so if they were worried about losing and if they had gone home then they would have never made a mistake and created plexiglass.
  • Ken GraceyKen Gracey Posts: 7,401
    edited 2010-05-20 04:06
    I keep several of our failures on my desk at Parallax to share with visitors.

    The first one is a high-volume chip programmer that accepts rails of PIC or SX chips. This project took about $100K and it was never finished. But, here's the part that's really interesting. The engineer who was designing the high-volume chip programmer wanted to do something else because his heart wasn't in it after a year and a half. Guess what he designed next? The Boe-Bot!

    And there are others, too, on the same shelf.

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    Ken Gracey
    Parallax Inc.

    Follow me at http://twitter.com/ParallaxKen for some insider news.

    Post Edited (Ken Gracey (Parallax)) : 5/20/2010 4:26:03 AM GMT
  • edited 2010-05-20 12:29
    Ken,

    When I played Track and Cross Coutry in High School, there was a requirement that at least (about) seven people had to compete to have a team and that is risky because you have to have alternates in case someone gets hurt or your team can be disqualified for not playing by the rules.

    Our coach had a college coach visit us and he told us how important that each one of us were because without us, our coach wouldn't have a job and we wouldn't have a team and it is important for a school to have a team.· He said that scholarships were available for people who just come out and join the team because colleges sell tickets to sporting events and they like to have people come out.· When people are participating, parents are cheering.· People get involved and they help the school.

    It is sort of like participatory management where people feel like they are valued and are a part of it.· They feel they have part ownership so they make contributions and take care of the product more.· It is sort of what you are doing because I read that you have a customer or two helping add their imput into the next prop chip:

    "Four customers/partners are participating in a focus group and are providing input along the way."

    ·http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=908003

    So it isn't all about winning though we all like to win and winning is very important but it is about an overall experience, having fun and being part of a team that carries over towards your customers.

    Chuck
  • bill190bill190 Posts: 769
    edited 2010-05-20 15:36
    rjo_ said...
    I see a Parallax product... on the other hand I also see a way to do it myself... which might equally benefit Parallax... but I don't know for sure... how do I ask without bothering anyone?

    I'll·give a hypothetical example... Viewport...
    I would say go for it. My feeling is that the more tools, add-ons, 3rd party software, etc. availible for a product such as the Propeller, the better for that product!

    It makes that product more appealing. You have more options when using that product.

    I think the worst thing would be to come out with a product like the Propeller, then be "ignored" and there not be any 3rd party products.

    The word is "synergy". Your product would help to make the Propeller a more attractive product for purchase. And the more people who purchased the Propeller, the more people who would be interested in your product!

    The rules of the game are no copying though.

    And if you could "design a better mousetrap", then as they say, "The world will beat a path to your door"!
    ·
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,260
    edited 2010-05-20 18:03
    The Post-It Note adhesive was deemed a failure as it first happened, but went on to become quite a success: http://invention.smithsonian.org/centerpieces/iap/inventors_fry2.html .

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  • BradCBradC Posts: 2,601
    edited 2010-05-20 23:57
    bill190 said...


    The rules of the game are no copying though.

    Why are there any rules at all ?

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  • localrogerlocalroger Posts: 3,452
    edited 2010-05-21 00:26
    So was PropDOS a dis of FemtoBasic, whose I/O engine it used? Was my PropCMD a dis of PropDOS? Was Sphinx a snub at all of us? I don't think so. The MIT license requirement makes the spirit of the obex clear; objects exist to be used but also to inspire new, possibly better objects and other code. If FemtoBasic had gotten a little * because it owned the idea of command-line control and SD access a lot of neat stuff wouldn't have ever been done. Similarly, I've lost count of the number of projects, both emulators and extended-native, to run some kind of useful code out of expanded external RAM; and I'm doing my own because I have my own idea of the compromises I'd like to make. We're all cheerfully looking over each other's shoulders and borrowing ideas and that's a GOOD thing. Even if I'm the only person who ever uses my system I still get the benefit of it for my own work, I got it faster because I peeked at someone else's code and avoided a problem or got a neat idea, maybe they do the same looking at my code, and everyone comes out ahead. There don't have to be any 'losers' at all.
  • bill190bill190 Posts: 769
    edited 2010-05-21 05:45
    BradC said...

    Why are there any rules at all ?
    A nearby police chief who has some pretty good one liners in the newspaper from time to time would probably say... For the 5% that cause 95% of the trouble!

    That's my experience. Most people don't need rules. They behave themselves and respect other people and other people's property. But every once and awhile you get that one person who steps all over everyone. Then the rules signs go up!

    Speaking of rules/laws, there have been some pretty funny laws on the books in the past. And the reason they were created in the first place was because of that one person, so you know someone did whatever the rule/law is saying not to do. (Like don't put the plastic bag over your head warnings.) Here are some...
    http://www.speakeasy.org/~dewan/funny_laws.htm

    ·
  • Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
    edited 2010-05-21 13:49
    localroger said...
    So was PropDOS a dis of FemtoBasic, whose I/O engine it used? Was my PropCMD a dis of PropDOS? Was Sphinx a snub at all of us? I don't think so.

    Couldn't agree more!!

    Collaboration with project code, (made easy now with the MIT license) has created some of the finer objects we have
    for the Propeller. If we build on each others ideas many more objects can and will continue to be improved!

    OBC

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  • mctriviamctrivia Posts: 3,772
    edited 2010-05-21 15:38
    bill190 I am pretty sure not all those laws are real.

    "In Connecticut, bicyclists traveling in excess of 65 miles per hour can be stopped by the police." This makes sense. You are speeding. I have gotten up to 65km/h when going down hill in a 50 zone. It is possible to break speed limits on a bike. Just not easy.

    There is no way though that "In Memphis, Tennessee, no woman may operate a car unless a man is running or walking in front of the car waving a red flag to warn approaching pedestrians and motorists." Would be allowed to remain. There would be public uproar from feminists everywhere.

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