A question I would like to ask... but probably shouldn't since there is no righ
rjo_
Posts: 1,825
I· have been dying to ask this... but I didn't want to be misunderstood.· So, let me make it clear that I am
not asking the following question because I want a date... I am happy with my life just the way it is[noparse]:)[/noparse]
Has·anyone actually met Hollyminkowski?··Is she really a woman?· Is her name actually Minkowski...and by any good grace is she related to the guy who gave us Einstein?
Post Edited (rjo_) : 5/20/2010 1:11:00 PM GMT
not asking the following question because I want a date... I am happy with my life just the way it is[noparse]:)[/noparse]
Has·anyone actually met Hollyminkowski?··Is she really a woman?· Is her name actually Minkowski...and by any good grace is she related to the guy who gave us Einstein?
Post Edited (rjo_) : 5/20/2010 1:11:00 PM GMT
Comments
Good question. I recall her commenting on remaining anonymous. She takes care not to give out information that could lead to revealing her identity and location.
Rich H
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The Simple Servo Tester, a kit from Gadget Gangster.
www.nsf.gov/statistics/wmpd/pdf/tabh-5.pdf
Looking at the member list for top posters, there are only a few people with suitably ambiguous names that could potentially be female (based strongly on the name and some on the avatar, and probably influenced by my experience of their posts):
Loopy Byteloose
SRLM
Newzed
hippy
Zoot
T&E Engineer
pjv
Forrest
Gadgetman
CounterRotatingProps
metron9
MagIO2
computer guy
Unsoundcode
Browsing from the member list from most to least, Holly is the first clearly female name encountered, and followed by Steph Lindsay (Parallax), Jessica Uelmen (Parallax), Lauren Davis (Parallax), Jen J. (Parallax), and [noparse][[/noparse]I don't know]. I stopped after page 12.
An interesting member find: http://forums.parallax.com/member.php?u=41606
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Powered by enthusiasm
Post Edited (SRLM) : 5/19/2010 8:46:05 PM GMT
Can you predict the reaction of anybody given the attention you are giving someone?· Is it warranted or unwarranted?
I'm married but personally I like the user posting here because it is valuable information.
I feel that some internet friends should stay internet friends.· I've had some distant friends misrepresent themselves which is why I believe that some internet friends should just stay internet friends because I don't believe in or I am unsure of making friends in five minutes.
Chuck
I'm sure the inimitable and enthusiastic Holly will jump into this thread to set the record straight!
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·"If you build it, they will come."
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When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. -- HST
1uffakind.com/robots/povBitMapBuilder.php
1uffakind.com/robots/resistorLadder.php
A private mail might have been better?
Minkowski is not a very rare name. Holly Minkowski is my real name, if I wanted to
choose a pseudonym I'd have come up with something a bit flashier.
Didn't mean to offend your sensibilities. I didn't know that Minkowski was a common name... in fact, I thought it to be so uncommon that it had to be your nick. And I don't really have a private reason to contact you... In fact, I would have felt rather strange doing so. As you know on the internet anyone can say that they are anyone... and there really isn't a way to actually know... unless someone actually has met you.
The question I wanted to ask is "are you related to ... blah, blah, blah."" My next question would have been... are you familiar with blah, blah, blah. If all of that had transpired... I was going to ask you a serious question about blah blah blah.
But I felt rather stupid doing that because I thought your nick was probably just a Nick and any answer I got would not have been worth my time.
Sometimes there isn't any easy or clear way to do things. A person just has to muddle through and hope for the best.
Rich
tubular
(not my real name)
I tried... that's the best I can say. And I was fully awake when I did it[noparse]:)[/noparse]
Sorry Holly
Sorry
Yes, it is awkward. Yes, it may have bordered on inappropriate, and especially, yes this thread is embarrassing for Holly (and rjo_).
But now we all KNOW, and can go about our business, and better appreciate the diversity of our community.
rjo_: Anyone who says they weren't at least a little curious themselves is lying. Relax, and stop blushing.
Holly: If you weren't as insightful and knowledgeable as you are, this would never have come up.
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John R.
Click here to see my Nomad Build Log
-Phil
I know what you're saying Phil, and how my comments could have been taken that way, but that's now how I meant it.
Trying to clarify, and more likely digging even deeper, it's not that I don't expect to find intelligent women, or that this is a "boys club", but the fact remains that we have a very high percentage of men, and low percentage of women. (Actually I meant "our little corner of the world" to be "Parallax Products and Electronics", and was thinking nothing about gender at the time I wrote it. Interesting to look back and see how it looks from a different set of eyes.)
More significantly, and more where the comment was meant to come from, we also have a number of members here who "stand out" because of the nature of their posts. How many people would not pay attention to post by yourself on the line scanner, etc.? Your knowledge in these (and other) areas makes you (actually your posts) stand out. I guess what I'm unsuccessfully trying to say, is that if someone's (male/female/animal/animatron) posts were "unnoticeable" we would never have thought about it or noticed them.
Right, wrong, or indifferent, the fact that Holly has high quality posts, that on their own attract attention, AND she is statistically "different" from the super-majority, is a combination that (again, right, wrong or indifferent) attracts attention.
All that said, you bring up a more valid point that I amplified with the above: Why should gender make a difference? It shouldn't. Its not we're "shocked" that someone is "different", but none the less, it stands out.
And this thread, including (maybe especially) my musings, may have done more harm than good. I would hope that like all issues of "difference", open, respectful, and frank discussion, can turn into a good thing.
Did I get down 6 feet yet? Is so, start filling in over me.
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John R.
Click here to see my Nomad Build Log
It is a pretty sad state of affairs (and not really Parallax's fault, they didn't create the society in which we live) where a skilled person is treated differently because she might be female. And you know, I'm a bit guilty of that myself; I've taken a secret thrill in seeing Holly's rollerskating avatar just because I like the idea that a girl gets the "it" that I so easily get, and so few women seem to. And that's not right, because I don't get that little thrill from Cluso's avatar, even though I've had a landlubbing interest in shipboarding for a long time.
My conclusion is that humans are screwed up. I'll leave the figuring out how to deal with that to some sensible board of entities that aren't screwed up.
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Regarding the use of real names: I do in this forum because of my loose affiliation with Parallax, so I didn't want to hide behind a pseudonym. (I've considered adding mischievous alter egos, though, but that's agin' the rules.) Nonetheless, I can certainly understand the need for anonymity among some forumistas, especially those whose employment situations could be compromised by full identity revelations.
-Phil
-Phil
Seriously guys, I'm not this interesting. Some are saying here that my posts are
really something special... That makes me feel odd since I'm certainly not on the
list of the best engineers here, heck, I'm happy just to be able to post and not
look too stupid. I'm just a programmer and that is easy for me somehow but I'm
pretty much useless with hardware. I do know what all the parts do, I just can't
design something complicated from scratch... I sometimes just keep tinkering until it sorta
works and then get opinions on how to improve it. I have zero education in engineering
other than what comes in through osmosis from the guys at work. I did want to go to
engineering school, I was unable to go at the proper time because of obligations.
And now I am having so much fun just coding and playing that I hate to even think about
spending years in school.
The thing is, I know that if I was a guy with my same level of skills no one would even
notice me, so that means it's because I'm female that my modest skill gets attention...it
just feels funny, like I get extra points because I'm the girl and it's a shocker
that I can work with this stuff at all <groan> I was sailing along just not paying attention to these
obvious facts, but this thread forces me to dwell on it.
A while back I noticed a poster that had an avatar of a small girl and I though since the name
was shmoopy that another girl had become a regular poster and used a childhood image as avatar....woohoo.
But then later the avatar changed and it turned out to be Martin LoL ..he has a sweet face, Maybe the image was of him as a child?
I have seen a few other females make posts but I don't remember their names as they
post so rarely.
As a point of info: Females on a forum almost always just use their name instead of making up
a nick name....no idea why it is...
No, it's a shocker that you chose to work with this stuff at all.
And it's not a "shocker", just interesting. Pretty much any post by a female in a male dominated forum is going to get more attention. Attention is good. What's the longest it has taken for one of your topics to receive a reply? Not long I'd bet.
Don't let it go to your head. You're special, but not that special.
Rich H
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The Simple Servo Tester, a kit from Gadget Gangster.
On a couple of occasions I thought I was getting more/quicker replies because of the female name (no, that was never the intention), but overall if there was an effect, it was one you'd have to squint pretty hard to see.
Anyway, for a time I was the only guy among some alpha women and felt out of place, intimidated, goofy more than once, and more or less had to work among them during an intense, extended and challenging time. It was really bizarre to hear the conversation, or walk in, and seem "outside" of it all, yet welcome and needed, with some of that special "guy" attention mixed in there, just as you describe.
On the flip side, I taught solid modeling to engineers and students for a number of years as well. Week long sessions, intense, close quarters, lots of interaction, and adult learning issues where it's important to speak to the students where they are at. Sometimes people vary considerably in their core knowledge and things they relate to, making adult education of that kind difficult, if one has not had some exposure to both genders and how they generally tend to interact with others and the material.
Women were perhaps 5 to 10 percent of the student body over time. After working with the attorneys, I took a bit of that back with me, more able to break the ice when I had a mixed gender class and for that I am grateful! IMHO, women generally can deal with a strong gender imbalance better than men can, based on my experiences so far... maybe it's just the mostly technical sample I'm used to.
Anyway, I read this thread and was struck by it, and thought I would share. It's perfectly benign to be curious. Asking is always gonna be a mixed bag though. IMHO, best form is to either not ask at all, or do it and be humble!
IMHO, mixed gender workplaces are the best overall. It's almost as if we grow rigid, stale and autonomous without that.
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My sister (also an Engineer) has told me some of the horror stories over the years of comments –among other things- that she has had to put up with every day. I guess you learn to deal with it. It has made her stronger (and whether she will agree with me or not) has trained her to always do her very best… and then some… to try to stay in a leading role in every project she is put on. I guess when you are never given the benefit of the doubt if you know something or not, you constantly have to prove it.
As my 2cents, it’s not that any of us really mean to treat women in this field differently; it comes down to nature, stereotypes and plain curiosity, as they have been explained here. When people break the norm, those people get attention bad or good. It’s like having a bright red car amongst dark blue ones. We all want to see why there is a red one here and wonder what it is all about. Its especially true for us Engineers/Technicians/Enthusiast’s… it is our very own nature to drift toward the shiny new things and start questioning it.
Even Leigh said this forum seems like a little bit of a boys club. Probably one reason she reads and does not post. I don’t even think she has an account. *I wonder how many girls are actually “here” like that.* I will see if I cannot talk her into giving her perspective too. I can’t see a better time for her to start posting.
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Alex Burke
"It is not how smart you are rather, it is how you are smart." -Jon Campbell